E Cunculi?

[PepnFluff]

Hi i posted a topic awhile ago about my bun Fluffy who was diagnosed with bacterial meningtis any way a person called Randy replied i think she a mod and she said it sounded like E Cunculi. Ny he is showing the signs of it he was dipping his head and his eye was twitching this morn i picked him up and he stopped dipping his head but still had the twitch hes eating normal and drinking normal but is quite unbalanced like falling over when jumping up. Getting to the point can anyone give mesome information on E cunculi about treatment and how it is contracted and stuff. Thanks very much.

Phoebe

 

[Pipp]

Quite a bit of info in the Library, here:

E. cuniculi (Encephalitozoon)

And I'm sure Randy will answer any questions you have, he's studied EC very intensely.

Hope it works out for your bunny.



sas :clover:

 

[PepnFluff]

Thanks just found the articles

 

[ra7751]

Hi Phoebe,

If your rabbit is tilting (torticollis) and has darting eyes (nystagmus)...that is most likely a vestibular (ear) infection in the middle and/or inner ear. Contrary to what you might hear or read on the internet, E Cuniculi does not directly cause head tilt. It does severely compromise the immune system to allow nasty bacteria such as pasteurella, pseudomonas and staph (and sometimes others) to start growing. These bacterial infections in rabbits with EC are pretty much an ongoing thing and usually also involve the respiratory system, eyes and urinary tract as well as the ears. The latest and greatest treatment for EC that is now in use is fenbendazole (panacur). It is basically a dewormer for horses but is also used in other species for intestinal parasites. When used to treat EC....it needs to be administered every day for at least 28 days....I do 60. In my non-professional opinion....it's effectiveness leaves a lot to be desired. A much more promising treatment is a drug that is used for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis (EPM) in horses. That is a closely related protozoan. The drug is called Ponazuril and is marketed by Bayer as Marquis. It is a very expensive drug when purchased in the syringes made for horses. This treatment is being tested by some of the leading rabbit researchers and time will tell. There are all sorts of stories about using Ivermectin or Baytril or Penicillin....the problem with EC is that it's not a bacteria and it's not a bug like a mite. I have also seen suggestions about using steroids. But steroids depress the immune system....and I suspect that you would want the immune system to be boosted since that is the only true way that EC can be put in remission...by the rabbit's own immune system.

As far as the tilt....that should be aggressively treated with proper antibiotics...including ear drops. If treated properly, there is a good chance that the tilt will correct...but is all depends on how much damage has been done to the vestibular system. If possible, a culture of any debris should be performed to determine exactly what bacteria is causing the infection....and target that bacteria with an appropriate bunny safe antibiotic. If your bun does have EC, expect more infections to come.

There are some other possibilities that could possibly cause tilt. But outside of a noticable head trauma, the most likely cause is a bacterial infection of the ear secondary to the EC.

Randy

 

[PepnFluff]

Thanks Randy so is dipping classafied as a tilt? When he went to the vet a few weeks ago the vet said he had a inner ear infection and was given baytril he thenchanged tobacterial meningitis which he was given more baytril for. So my question iscan a ear infection come back so soon?

 

[ra7751]

Hi Phoebe,

The direct answer to your question is that the infection was probably never resolved to begin with. There needs to be a culture and sensitivity test performed to see what pathogen is the root cause of the infection. The sensitivity test will show what drugs will control the bacteria. It might not even be bacteria, could be something viral or even yeast....but a C&S will show that. And the bacteria could be resistant to Baytril....simply means that the bacteria has evolved and has built up an immunity to the drug. While Baytril is the drug of choice of many vets due to it's proven safety and effectiveness....the effectiveness is quickly going away as this drug has been totally overused and abused. An example in humans is penicillin. At one time, it was hailed as a miracle drug....now it's virtually useless due to the same issues. While I do still use Baytril sometimes, I very rarely use it as a first line treatment. It is nearly always used in support of another drug or as a "mop up" treatment. I live near a vet school and there are actually quite a few rabbit savvy vets (including several teaching professors) and most of them do not use Baytril in rabbits any longer. I am personally hoping that more vets will attend these conferences in which new treatments are presented. That will be the quickest way to get these new treatment protocols out there in the hands of the doctors.

Treating ear infections can take several different medications, require additional husbandry support and may take a long time to resolve. I have treated ear infections for as long as 8 months. We have been successful in correcting every tilt case that originated in our rescue. We have one lionhead with a very slight tilt...came from an untreated case of mites with secondary bacterial infection....and we corrected about 90%. He was tilted all the way over upon admission to our rescue. We have another, a Hotot with blue eyes, that is totally twisted and most likely will never correct. He came from a pet store chain.....they did take him to a vet but he was misdiagnosed as having a "brain worm"(E Cuniculi). Unfortunately for Sparky, that misdiagnosis meant the actual ear infection was left untreated and the damage to the ear is done. He will never correct but we do have husbandry protocols in place for him and he lives as a very happy rabbit....he runs and plays....but he literally has a very twisted view of the world.

Bottom line....get a culture and treat aggressively based on the findings of the C&S. Time is against your rabbits as the longer the infection is active in that ear, the more damage is done that might not be repairable.

Randy

 

[PepnFluff]

Cheers for that so what drugs woud you think should be used for a ear infection? i know your not a vet but maybe just that youve used in your experience? Im thinking that the vet will just give baytril so maybe I could ask him about others. I know a rabbit savvy vet shoud know what to give, but i think the nearest rabbit vet is 6hours away so I just go to a small animal clinic.

 

[ra7751]

The only way to know for sure as to what drug to use is to perform a culture on any debris in the ear. Any vet or tech can swab a culture regardless of species. And any lab should be abletogrow it and test it. Without that, it is a total guess on what to use. But if I were a vet and I were to guess as to using a drug...it would be Pen-G. WARNING: If this drug is given my mouth....it usually results in death. It has to be properly dosed and properly administered to prevent these undesirable results. It is nothing to play with if you aren't familiar with proper protocols for this drug.

Randy

 

[PepnFluff]

Okay cheers and one final symptom can ear infections cure themselves? as hes back to normal no falling over or dipping and is binkying again YAY!

 

[ra7751]

What you are seeing is the immune system kicking in to fight the infection. Still a good idea to do a round of proper antibiotics.

Randy

 

[PepnFluff]

Just relised i said symptom instead of question lol yeap hes going to the vet but couldnt go today (public holiday) and im not sure about tommorow as its still a public holiday but ill phone anyway thanks for all your help randy:biggrin2: