E. Coli--Now what?

Jenk · May 18, 2009

I'm awaiting the final fecal culture results for Zoe. All I know is that the preliminary results show the E. Coli is present.

Can one bun pass on E. Coli to another if they share a litter box for 30-60 min. a day? (Emma and Zoe are separated all day and have separate food dishes.)

Now I'm worried about Emma, who's showing rather lackluster behavior. Last night, she remained in the corner when I set down her greens (not at all normal for her). I gave her two doses of Simethicone; she perked up after the first dose,ate her greens, played well and was eating hay when we went to bed last night.

She's been producing normal-looking fecals, but I still worry that she may have caught something from Zoe (or they both caught something from another source).

Thank you,

Jenk

SnowyShiloh · May 18, 2009

Okay Jen, I know this is off topic, but I have to tell you about it. I had a dream about Emma the night before last. I didn't see her or anything, but I dreamed I was in this huge hotel that was several stories tall and had lots of shops and swimming pools and restaurants and the like. Anyway, at one point someone paged over the intercom: "Will Emma the rabbit please leave the 5th floor swimming pool." Apparently Emma loved swimming in my dream but bunnies weren't allowed in the pool and she had to get out

Poor girl.

Anyway, I really hope your bunny girls will be okay. e. Coli sounds scary. How serious is it?

Maureen Las · May 18, 2009

I know that e-coli can cause serious problems in areally young rabbit but I had to look this up to see why it would occur in an adult.

The problem would be an overgrowth of e-coli; I don't think that it is abnormal to have some e-coli in stool. Did the vet tell you this was problem or just give you the results without comments.

if their is a problem with an overgrowth of e-coli in Zoe it may be related to gastointestintal hypomotility
I will relate some info from Kathy Smith /Lucille Moore's book "When your rabbit needs special care"

"The treatment fpr hypomotility is to rehydrate the rabbit, coax him to eat, and promote normal intestinal contractions . Provide a quiet non stressful environment
if the rabbit will not take oral fluids sub q fluids may be necessary . Some vets do a blood screen to check for other diseases that may be slowing the gut.

She also talks about trying to feed the rabbit trying to give greens etc. , syringe feeding etc.
Antibiotics may be prescribed in order to prevent bacterial overgrowth but not all veterinarians recommend this. In cases of hypomotility the balance of microflora in the gut is already going to be unstable so unless there is the real likelihood of a bacterial infection some practioners prefer not to prescrobe antibiotics. Acidopilus can be give to restore a healthy balance of microflora . Although this is not a naturally occuring enzyme in the rabbit's digestive tract there is some evidence it will help in cases of gut slowdown because of its inhibitory effect on e-coli and other harmful bacteria Some caretakers recommend giving Questran to bind bacterial toxins such as those prodiced by clostridium . Questran absorbs wter, however, and should not be given unless the rabbit is given additional fluids.
She talks about masage analgesics etc ; things that you already do (including simethicone)

Home care is a stress free environment , monioting food and water, simethicone, analgesics , and encouraging exercise , and monitoring body temperature providing warmth as needed.
I think you should ask the vet what 'e-coli " means in terms of Zoe ; if there is not an overgrowth I don't think that it's an issue.
I really wouldn't worry about Emma until the vet clarifies what all this means ; I am sure that e-coli was notbrought in from an outside source

Jenk · May 18, 2009

angieluv wrote:

I don't think that it is abnormal to have some e-coli in stool. Did the vet tell you this was problem or just give you the results without comments.

We're awaiting the final results of the second (speciated) fecal culture. Some E. Coli was found in the preliminary results (of the second culture). The vetput Zoe on Baytril due to the gas/discomfort/mucous issues that she continued having. (The first fecal culture didn't find any of the "big-gun"bacteria, such as Clostridium.)

if their is a problem with an overgrowth of e-coli in Zoe it may be related to gastointestintal hypomotility.

It could very well be that eating all that plastic off of her litter box was the sole cause of her gut slowdown, which, in turn, promoted an E. Coli build-up. (Again, we don't know how profound the growth of it is, but Zoe's symptoms indicate a genuine problem; that's why Baytril was started while we await the final results.)

I will relate some info from Kathy Smith /Lucille Moore's book "When your rabbit needs special care"

"Antibiotics may be prescribed in order to prevent bacterial overgrowth but not all veterinarians recommend this. In cases of hypomotility the balance of microflora in the gut is already going to be unstable so unless there is the real likelihood of a bacterial infection some practioners prefer not to prescrobe antibiotics. Acidopilus can be give to restore a healthy balance of microflora . Although this is not a naturally occuring enzyme in the rabbit's digestive tract there is some evidence it will help in cases of gut slowdown because of its inhibitory effect on e-coli and other harmful bacteria Some caretakers recommend giving Questran to bind bacterial toxins such as those prodiced by clostridium."

We tried probiotics first for nearly two weeks' time before finally resorting to Baytril. (Three days' worth of Flagyl was given, in case Zoe's serious gas was caused by the "big-gun" bacteria. But Flagyl didn't make a real difference; the first fecal culture proved why: No "big-gun" bacteria was found.)

I think you should ask the vet what 'e-coli " means in terms of Zoe ; if there is not an overgrowth I don't think that it's an issue.

Oh, I definitely will.

As soon as the results are in, I intend to get a copy to pour over myself. If there is an overgrowth of E. Coli (or even something else), I will ask the vet what the lab found in terms of effective antibiotics for it.

I really wouldn't worry about Emma until the vet clarifies what all this means ; I am sure that e-coli was notbrought in from an outside source.

I just worry when Emma shows signs of gas discomfort, whichshe's not had in at least six months'time (though likely longer).

They were boarded several times over the course ofseveral weeks'; there is the possibility that they picked something up in the other environment. But I realize that it's likelya Zoe thing due to gut hypomotility. (Heck, it could've come from water or greens. Who knows?)

Jenk · May 18, 2009

SnowyShiloh wrote:

...I had a dream about Emma the night before last....I dreamed I was in this huge hotel that was several stories tall and had lots of shops and swimming pools and restaurants and the like. Anyway, at one point someone paged over the intercom: "Will Emma the rabbit please leave the 5th floor swimming pool." Apparently Emma loved swimming in my dream but bunnies weren't allowed in the pool and she had to get out Poor girl.

Oh, no! My bossy girl is invading others' dreams!

:help :biggrin2:

...I really hope your bunny girls will be okay. e. Coli sounds scary. How serious is it?

My understanding is that it can be, if not caught/treated in time. Like anything else, an overgrowth of it can lead to other problems. (Someone told me that it can enter the bloodstream and affect the kidneys!) Thankfully, Zoe seems to be getting relief from her current treatment.

tonyshuman · May 18, 2009

I wouldn't stop giving her probiotics now that she's on antibiotics.

I agree that just having e coli present doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem.