Difficulty giving oral med.

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MsJuliet

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Chewy is on metacam right now, and she does NOT enjoy taking it. She will not willingly come to my hand and drink it from the little syringe, but she will drink it if my father is holding her. However, my family and I are going away on vacation for a week and I will have my friend watch Chewy. Before, she was willing to drink it, but now she is being stubborn.

Metacam has a very greasy feel to it, smells gross, and I'm sure does not taste very good to her, so I can't blame her for being difficult in taking it. However, I am at a loss of ideas as to how her caregiver will be able to give it to her- she will not let anyone else hold her and give it to her.

Does anyone know if I may mix the Metacam with anything, or squirt it on a fruit or something?
 
MsJuliet wrote:
Chewy is on metacam right now, and she does NOT enjoy taking it. She will not willingly come to my hand and drink it from the little syringe, but she will drink it if my father is holding her. However, my family and I are going away on vacation for a week and I will have my friend watch Chewy. Before, she was willing to drink it, but now she is being stubborn.

Metacam has a very greasy feel to it, smells gross, and I'm sure does not taste very good to her, so I can't blame her for being difficult in taking it. However, I am at a loss of ideas as to how her caregiver will be able to give it to her- she will not let anyone else hold her and give it to her.

Does anyone know if I may mix the Metacam with anything, or squirt it on a fruit or something?
oral-anything,meds-included,-can be a challenge--syringe(1cc)-is what i use,,with alot of patience.//.what condition is the rabbit being given metacam for.??--is it necessary.??--does she have a dietary problem.??--grasses and water,,plus a small amount of quality lowfat pellets can work wonders on a rabbits gitract,,and fruit tree branches from the safe list can keep those constantly growing teeth healthy and trimmed...sincertely james waller
 
Problem is mixing/hiding it in stuff, they figure it out pretty quick. So, if it works once or twice, that may be it, then u need another form of delivery. Getting them used to the syringe is best. Otherwise, as a trick, you can hide it in something they like and wrap in greens they get often.
 
Would mixing it in apple sauce work, perhaps? Sugar-free apple sauce, if she's having dietary issues?

I'm thinking the flavor and smell of apple sauce would disguise the flavor and smell, and possibly the texture. I'm just not sure if it'd be too high in sugar for your bun.
 
I have a much more important question....why is she on Metacam to begin with? Metacam is a short term drug and should not usually be administered for more than 4 days at a time. It is very rough on the liver and somewhat to the kidneys. If she is in pain for some reason, there are other drugs that would be better for long term use. While all drugs carry side effects, long term pain management is better controlled with a drug such as Tramadol.

Randy
 
Thanks everyone for all of the advice. It really helped. I tried dipping the syringe in her antibiotic that's flavored, but she was not fooled. Buns are so smart. :? I'm going to try sugar-free apple sauce.

Chewy has no eating problems right now. She is on Metacam for pain relief because Chewy has recently been diagnosed with cancer. She has small sores (about 4) on her body, and my vet believed that she should be put on pain medication. I have noticed a significant positive effect on Chewy since she has been on the Metacam.

But what you have just said worries me... I didn't know that about Metacam. :X It can be so frustrating with this stuff; I wish I myself was a rabbit specialist but I find myself having to question everything all of her different vets have said and done.

I just e-mailed my vet and asked her about the concerns you had with the Metacam. That really worries me, because she was intended to be on this for a long period of time, and she is also a 9 year old bun. If this medication is harsh on buns livers or kidneys, I would have hoped my vet would have known better to place Chewy on it.

I'm going to hold off on giving it to her again until I get a response. Chewy has been on it for about a week already.
 
It might be that your vet feels the benefits of Metacam will outweigh the possible effects on the liver and kidneys. If she is uncomfortable, I do not suggest discontinuing the Metacam until you talk to your vet. A drug I have used long term with fewer side effects is Tramadol. It can be used in conjunction with Metacam if necessary. It provides narcotic type pain relief. The dosing can be manipulated to provide some sedation when needed.

In some cases like this....we have been able to establish normal dosing of Metacam and then but back anduse a maintenance level dosing....usually about half the normal dosing. It may also be possible to use a lower dose of both Tramadol and Metacam that would still offer adequate pain control and limiting any side effects.

Another suggestion on dosing Metacam is using injectable....if you are comfortable with doing injections. This method may not be possible if she is a smaller rabbit (due to the higher concentraion of injectable Metacam). Due to her medical condition, it would be advisable to learn to do injections. If Metacam is required long term, you can help buffer the side effects by supplemental hydration.

And yes....there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Many of the reference manuals vets use still contain outdated information. And in the defense of vets, they are often "behind the eight ball" since they don't get much "exotic focus"training in vet school. But that is improving. While I don't condone arguing with your vet, rational discussion will often result in the curiosity of your vet being stimulated and they just have to do research on the issue.

Randy
 
Prior to the Metacam, Chewy seemed to be experiencing discomfort, not pain. She has been on a dosage of .4 twice daily, so perhaps you think just .2 once daily can do it?
I was questioning the dosage and the frequency of her medication because of her pain level- she seems to not need the metacam at all, really. Which makes me think that the side effects of Metacam do not outweigh the benefits it's giving her.

Thanks for the advice again. I'm still waiting on an answer from her doctor.
 
That is a lot of Metacam. What is her approximate weight? And do you know the concentration of the drug? The concentration of the drug will be either on the bottle or label and for oral should be either .5mg/ml or 1.5mg/ml. Again unless your vet has a reason, Metacam is usually dosed once a day. But this is an unusual situation.

Randy
 
She weighs 5 pounds and around 11-13 ounces. The metacam is 1.5mg/mL.


Now I'm really nervous. Despite any reasoning her vet had to give this to her, what I'm seeing from what you're telling me is that this is a almost ridiculous amount to be giving a rabbit who isn't really in much pain.

I pray to God there's no damage to her liver after taking this for a week. I don't want to give it to her anymore now. The doctor is away on vacation and isn't in the office till tomorrow.
 
Well...don't get too worried until you talk with the vet. I will say that there is some thought in exotic circles that you can dose Metacam in higher doses and for longer terms than most other animals....but nothing set in stone yet. Sometimes you have to use the "lesser of the evils" approach with rabbits. I would at least consider a blood panel ever so often to monitor liver and kidney functions if Metacam is used in this higher dosing or for long term. And I would ask about alternative drugs that might have fewer possibleside effects. I think it would be prudent todiscuss this with your vet and since we do manipulate drugs from time to time....there may be a perfectly good reason for this dosing. And if the doctor gives a satisfactory explanation...I would stick with his/herplan due to the situation.

Randy
 
For longer-term medication, something like tramadol is preferred. Narcotics can slow the gut some but have fewer bad side effects as Randy mentioned. The way I give oral meds is to hold the bunny, restrained in a towel burrito if needed, and put the tip of the oral syringe behind their front teeth, then squirt it in. They will swallow usually because they have to.
 
There is no set rule here, don't panic. You're vet is doing fine. Any discussion of liver damage is with weeks of use and if liver damage is already present. Was he tested for liver damage? In any case, don't stop the drug.

Neither of my two vets are too concerned about liver issues, they both say that's more of a concern in dogs and other pets, they don't test before prescribing it. Randy may not agree with this but even if he's right and my vets are wrong (and he may well be, I'm not disputing his conclusions), it is not an immediate life-or-death thing. Its a very slow progression.

Gastric ulcers and a reduced plasma flow to the kidneys are more common in my experience (and according to my vets) but alleviated by providing food with the meds and making sure the rabbit is very well hydrated.

Metacam is also routinely prescribed long-term to rabbits with arthritis so I'm sure there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on long term use, and I haven't seen any dire warnings anywhere. It's still worth looking into -- like a lot of drugs, it hasn't been commonly prescribed for rabbits until the past few years, so more info should be emerging.

Metacam dosages for rabbits are also still a work in progress, my two main vets don't agree on dosages or frequency, neither do the text books. One recommends 0.1 to 0.2 mg/kg every 24 hours, but I've had prescriptions calling for as high as 0.3mg/kg. And I just saw a study on a group of NZ Whites lab rabbits that said a dose of .3 per kg appeared to be too low. I also find different breeds seem to metabolize drugs at different rates, so I'm not even sure strictly going by weight is best. And some forms of pain are worse than others. You just have to experiment -- within limits of course.

But I think the dosage your vet prescribed is well within the limits. I give Pipp, who weighs 1.3 kg or 2.8 lbs, most often a kick-off dose of .4 with .2 after that when she shows signs of pain, usually by 16 hours. I'll go as low as .18 and as high as .25. My 15 lb / 6.8 kg guy was good with just one .8 dose after his neuter.

I was told by a vet tech that the main dose could be split in half for two 12 hour doses, and I've seen that disputed, but I know it certainly doesn't last 24 hours with my rabbits. I checked into some studies that concluded it has a half life of eight hours in rabbits and its completely out of the system at 24 hours, so I'm personally happy with dosing a half dose every 12 hours or a full dose every 16 hours.

I'm just dosing based on the reaction of the individual rabbit and the situation. I stay within the ranges given by both vets, but if the bunny gets 'loopy', they're cut back. If they seem to still be in pain, I go for the higher end. I'm currently giving a full dose to my broken leg guy every (he probably weighs 2.5 lbs as well) every 16 hours until his surgery next week.

I'll be asking the vet about other pain relief options at that time.



ETA: I wrote this before seeing Randy and TH's posts, so we're all in agreement for the immediate future!

PS: My rabbits LOVE the Metacam suspension I get, it tastes like banana or something, they'll happily lap it from the syringe.

sas :clover:
 
Thanks for sharing your experience and outlook- I appreciate hearing different experiences and thoughts, and my ears are always open to everyone. :)

I will have to ask about them pre-mixing the Metacam at the vet! That sounds wonderful... she already has an antibiotic that is raspberry flavored from them, so I thought if they could do flavoring with it that they would have already. But it's always worth looking into, and Chewy's favorite snack happens to be banana.


I know I failed to mention this before, but she is on an antibiotic as well. I never got the exact name of it, but she is given a dosage of it twice daily. It is to prevent any further infections in the sores she has right now. Perhaps this medication was taken into consideration when her vet prescribed her the Metacam and the dosage given.

Until I hear an answer from her vet, I am going to split the dosages in half, but at the same time daily, so .2 twice. She was given her .4 already today, so right now I'm going to go mix up some Metacam with the sugar free apple sauce I got her today and see how she likes it.

Again, I appreciate all of the advice and guidance. Thanks for telling me not to worry too much! I can go overboard with worrying about Chewy... you know how it can be with your little fluffernutters;).

Update: I mixed her Metacam with the sugar free apple sauce, and she loved it and drank it all up. Thanks for the tip!
 
Perhaps you got some liver flavoured or other meat flavoured metacam for dogs/cats. You can get a honey flavoured metacam that bunnies love.

I don't even have to take the buns out of their cages to give it to them, I can feed it to them through the cage bars. They think it's the best thing ever and I have to be careful that they don't pull the syringe out of my hands and run away with it.

I would ask them about ordering the metacam in the honey flavour if it becomes a long term medication for your bunny.

-Dawn
 
Chewy is not quick to fall for deceit- she would not even touch the syringe of the applesauce mixed with the Metacam this morning. Darnit!

I'm going to ask my vet about flavored Metacam, because I've been hearing a lot from you guys that there are tons of bunny-friendly flavors out there.
 
My vet seems irritated about my questions regarding Chewy and her Metacam, and told me that the formulation is already sweet. But it CANNOT be flavored... it came directly from the Metacam bottle; not in like a amber colored bottle where you know that the medication was mixed with flavoring at the vets.

She suggested honey or some sort of fruit juice. Chewy hated honey when I tried; it got her all sticky and she wasn't at all interested in it. I injected some Metacam into fat blueberries, and she ate them up. But I'm worried that she will figure it out later tonight.

Any particular juices anyone recommends?
 
Metacam does come in a honey flavour. I'm guessing it comes from the manufacturers that way. And I do know that there is a liver flavour as well.

I have never had a bunny refuse or dislike the honey metacam. However, your bunny could just be unique if that is the flavour you have.

Hopefully the blueberries will continue to work.

-Dawn
 

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