mambo101
Well-Known Member
Here's a cool video I shot at the Washington County PA rabbit show with Judi Amon showing off her Lionheads.
Cool Lionhead Video
- Thread starter mambo101
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TinysMom
Well-Known Member
I want the chestnut....she's gorgeous..
Peg
Peg
Phinnsmommy
Well-Known Member
No offence to her, but it seems like she is handling them rough 
Am I just overreacting and not used to breeders? lol...
Am I just overreacting and not used to breeders? lol...
Sarah8000
Well-Known Member
Phinnsmommy wrote:
Totally agree Phinnsmommy :XI was quite disgusted at that video.No offence to her, but it seems like she is handling them rough
Am I just overreacting and not used to breeders? lol...
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
Judi Amon is a very respected breeder and her lionheads are among the nicest from comments I've heard from people who have bought them. I hear nothing but good things from people about her as a person and her care of rabbits is well known - in a good way.
The first time I went to a show - I was SHOCKED at the way judges handled some rabbits - and breeders too. I was shocked to see how some breeders would hold rabbits while grooming them, etc.
However, I watched the video three times after one forum member asked me about it (since I breed lionheads) and the last two times I especially watched the rabbits faces and demeanor as she worked with them. They did not seem scared or upset. In fact, I supsect that the forum members here are more upset than the rabbits themselves were.
Show rabbits get used to being handled and groomed. Yes, sometimes a breeder may hold them strange to groom them a same way....but to the rabbit - it is "normal".
I often think of what Buck Jones (a much beloved forum member who passed away in 2005).used to say....how rabbits needed to know we were the "big kahuna". I've noticed that my rabbits that I've had to hold to force down medicine or who have gotten used to being handled whether they like it or not- are much more "people" bunnies and socialized and they do better overall. The ones I've let sit in a cage and not made them be held or come out (I know - I'm going against what so many folks on the forum say)....get used to it and they aren't stressed by it.
Anyway, I see where folks are coming from - but I happen to know of this breeder and the care she gives her rabbits....and the reputation she has.
Peg
The first time I went to a show - I was SHOCKED at the way judges handled some rabbits - and breeders too. I was shocked to see how some breeders would hold rabbits while grooming them, etc.
However, I watched the video three times after one forum member asked me about it (since I breed lionheads) and the last two times I especially watched the rabbits faces and demeanor as she worked with them. They did not seem scared or upset. In fact, I supsect that the forum members here are more upset than the rabbits themselves were.
Show rabbits get used to being handled and groomed. Yes, sometimes a breeder may hold them strange to groom them a same way....but to the rabbit - it is "normal".
I often think of what Buck Jones (a much beloved forum member who passed away in 2005).used to say....how rabbits needed to know we were the "big kahuna". I've noticed that my rabbits that I've had to hold to force down medicine or who have gotten used to being handled whether they like it or not- are much more "people" bunnies and socialized and they do better overall. The ones I've let sit in a cage and not made them be held or come out (I know - I'm going against what so many folks on the forum say)....get used to it and they aren't stressed by it.
Anyway, I see where folks are coming from - but I happen to know of this breeder and the care she gives her rabbits....and the reputation she has.
Peg
clarzoo
Well-Known Member
I feel the same way as Peg. When I first got into rabbits I was so afraid of holding them- I thought they would 'break'. When I went to my first show I couldn't believe how all these breeders and judges could be handling their rabbits and the rabbitsdon't seem to care!
If this is how these rabbits are used to being handled from birth, this type of handling won't bother them. As a breeder and showperson, I can't have a rabbit that won't allow me to groom it or clip it's nails. So, I start them out young and handle them firmly, but with respect, and they grow up into great, friendly adults that allow me to do whatever I need to do to them to get them ready for show. Judges may handle 1000+ rabbits per show, they can't take a lot of time working with each rabbit.
I agree, that the way she handles the older sable point doe doeslook(from the video)a bit harsh- but she isn't hurting the rabbit. The rabbit seems a bit overwhelmed before being handled, so she isn't posing for the breeder. Which is why the breeder keeps picking her up and down trying to get her to pose.
If this is how these rabbits are used to being handled from birth, this type of handling won't bother them. As a breeder and showperson, I can't have a rabbit that won't allow me to groom it or clip it's nails. So, I start them out young and handle them firmly, but with respect, and they grow up into great, friendly adults that allow me to do whatever I need to do to them to get them ready for show. Judges may handle 1000+ rabbits per show, they can't take a lot of time working with each rabbit.
I agree, that the way she handles the older sable point doe doeslook(from the video)a bit harsh- but she isn't hurting the rabbit. The rabbit seems a bit overwhelmed before being handled, so she isn't posing for the breeder. Which is why the breeder keeps picking her up and down trying to get her to pose.
Munchkin
Well-Known Member
I work with rabbits and I do not like how they are being handled at all.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but to me these creatures deserve better than being moved around as if they were some kind of kids toy It reminds me of my kids as babies playing with barbies - pushing and pulling every which way.
If they don't look terrified it's because she always does this, since birth, not because they don't mind it.
My opinion of course, but I could not stand and watch that without losing my temper. Sorry if that offends anyone - its just how I feel about it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but to me these creatures deserve better than being moved around as if they were some kind of kids toy It reminds me of my kids as babies playing with barbies - pushing and pulling every which way.
If they don't look terrified it's because she always does this, since birth, not because they don't mind it.
My opinion of course, but I could not stand and watch that without losing my temper. Sorry if that offends anyone - its just how I feel about it.
clarzoo
Well-Known Member
Everybody is always entitled to their own opinion! Thanks so much to everyone for sharing in an open, calm manner. That is what makes this forum so great!
Munchkin- I will agree she seems a bit rough, I do not handle my rabbits the same way this breeder did.
Munchkin wrote:
Munchkin- I will agree she seems a bit rough, I do not handle my rabbits the same way this breeder did.
Munchkin wrote:
Phinnsmommy
Well-Known Member
Its just, at one point she held up its front by its ears. I would never handle a rabbit like that. But then again, they dont look very scared at all.
Lol...
Lol...
mambo101
Well-Known Member
Just to echo a little of what Peg said. Judi Amon trulyIS one of the most respected Lionhead breeders in the country. I got my José from her and I can tell you without a doubt she loves her rabbits and would never do anything that would purposely harm them.
Munchkin
Well-Known Member
Thats good to hear, and the fact is those lionheads are the most beautiful looking ones I think I've ever seen as far as quality and cute factor is concerned.
I'll happily take your word for it that it isn't how it looks
Is Jose very tame and easily handled then?
I'll happily take your word for it that it isn't how it looks
Is Jose very tame and easily handled then?
mambo101
Well-Known Member
José is very tame. He will let me hold him, but is also always very curious of his surroundings. I can be holding him for about 3 or 4 minutes he's ok but then he starts getting restless and wants to be let on terra firma so he can go explore.
Here's a photo from the archives taken on the week I brought hime home:
Here's a photo from the archives taken on the week I brought hime home:
Munchkin
Well-Known Member
Oh my goodness - he is so gorgeous!! Such a cutie!
undergunfire
Retired Moderator
I just stumbled across this because I was looking for posts on Lionheads, just to read more about them . Anyway, I never got to reply to this thread...I never saw it!
I think she is handling the rabbits just fine! Marlin will let me do ANYTHING to him. When I groom/check over Marlin I flip him over, lift him up, open his mouth, feel all over, look in his ears, ect.
The breeder may look like she is grabbing and holding the bunny up by it's ears, but it looks to me like she is grabbing the hair around the ears.
When I pick Marlin up, I grab him by the thick hair on his upper back...below his neck, to scoop him up into my arms real quick. I actually learned how to do this at Peg's house. It gives you better control over the bunny, so you can pick the bunny up without it squirming. It doesn't hurt Marlin (or any of Peg's Lionhead's). Their hair is very thick and it's for about 1 second that you lift them off the ground and into your arms. I lift Marlin 1 foot off the floor by his "hair", then quickly into my arms.
Yep, it may sound shocking or dangerous to most, but...really....it's not dangerous if your bunny knows that is it going to be picked up, trusts you, and knows that it will be safe in your arms. Dog breeders who breed Terrier dogs will lift the dog up and off the show table by it's tail and one hand under the neck...because the tail is so strong and it's for about 1 second as well.
. Anyway, I never got to reply to this thread...I never saw it!I think she is handling the rabbits just fine! Marlin will let me do ANYTHING to him. When I groom/check over Marlin I flip him over, lift him up, open his mouth, feel all over, look in his ears, ect.
The breeder may look like she is grabbing and holding the bunny up by it's ears, but it looks to me like she is grabbing the hair around the ears.
When I pick Marlin up, I grab him by the thick hair on his upper back...below his neck, to scoop him up into my arms real quick. I actually learned how to do this at Peg's house. It gives you better control over the bunny, so you can pick the bunny up without it squirming. It doesn't hurt Marlin (or any of Peg's Lionhead's). Their hair is very thick and it's for about 1 second that you lift them off the ground and into your arms. I lift Marlin 1 foot off the floor by his "hair", then quickly into my arms.
Yep, it may sound shocking or dangerous to most, but...really....it's not dangerous if your bunny knows that is it going to be picked up, trusts you, and knows that it will be safe in your arms. Dog breeders who breed Terrier dogs will lift the dog up and off the show table by it's tail and one hand under the neck...because the tail is so strong and it's for about 1 second as well.
