Concerned about weight loss...

[Jenk]

My Cali boy, Pinkerton, has lost weight, though his diet hasn't changed; he still receives the same amount of pellets, greens, and hay that previously kept him at 9.44 lbs. I recently detected that he feels a bit thinner/bony; so, tonight, I weighed him on a human scale (in my arms) and found him to be approximately 8.85 lbs.

He's only about 3.5 years old but has been much less active lately. And his hay/water consumption have increased at times. My concern is kidney function, since our household has been chemically treated for parasites multiple times. The treatments aren't supposed to cause harm to anything weighing more than 1 oz., but, still, I worry.

What else could contribute to such a weight loss?

At this point, my plan is to schedule a vet exam, including a full blood-chem. panel (and possibly a urinalysis).


Thank you,

Jenk

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

Just curious, when did you weigh him last? That might make a difference, like if he lost *that* much really quickly or if its been a while. ??

 

[Jenk]

Bunnylova4eva wrote:

Just curious, when did you weigh him last? That might make a difference, like if he lost *that* much really quickly or if its been a while. ??

His previous weight was taken at the vet's on 11/12/11. His weight then was 3.9 kg. Apparently, I'd forgotten to convert it to pounds, which would've told me that he weighed about 8.60 lbs. at that time.

I will review his earlier medical files to see when he was last recorded as weighing 9.44 lbs. and for approximately how long he held at that weight; I'll report back shortly.


Jenk

 

[Jenk]

Here's a breakdown of some of Pink's recorded weight:

On 6/30/11: 9.1 lbs.

On 2/17/11: 9.3 lbs.

On 8/6/10: 8.9 lbs.

On 2/6/10: 8.4 lbs.

When Pink weighed less than 9 lbs., he was receiving 1/4 C. of pellets per day. When I added 1 Tbsp. to his ration, his weight climbed between 9.1 and 9.44 lbs.

For some reason, I can't find the paperwork showing his weight at nearly 9.5 lbs., but it does exist--somewhere. I'll continue looking for it to see if I can figure out when he was at that max. weight.


Jenk

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

So since June when he was weighed at 9.1 lb, have you weighed him much, or is that the last time you have his weight written down? Going from 9.1 to 8.85 in 7 months isn't that much in my mind. I think it does fluctuate a bit from time to time. I know my mini rex's weight goes up and down a little bit sometimes, but there's never been an issue.

Before rushing him in to get checked out, you might want to just for a little while consistently keep weighing him and see if he continues losing, and how quickly.

Have you seen any big indicators that something could be going on with his kidneys?

 

[Jenk]

Bunnylova4eva wrote:

So since June when he was weighed at 9.1 lb, have you weighed him much, or is that the last time you have his weight written down? Going from 9.1 to 8.85 in 7 months isn't that much in my mind. I think it does fluctuate a bit from time to time. I know my mini rex's weight goes up and down a little bit sometimes, but there's never been an issue.

I am uncertain if 6/30/11 was the last time Pink was weighed before 11/12/11. It's possible that's the case, but I'll keep sorting through his medical paperwork for more possible details. I know that at some point, his weight was recorded as about 9.44 lbs. at the vet's.

Before rushing him in to get checked out, you might want to just for a little while consistently keep weighing him and see if he continues losing, and how quickly.

I agree and, earlier this morning, made the decision not to call the vet. I'll weigh Pink weekly for a while to see how his weight fluctuates and what his average weight turns out to be.

I'm still concerned about his weight dropping from 9.4 lbs.; he's been consuming the same amount of calories from pellets, and his hay/water consumption is increased some days. And he's been much less active during the evening when out of his pen. (Some nights he settles down and doesn't move for an hour.) I don't know if his slowdown is the sign of an issue or if he's starting to slow down due to age. (I'm unsure how active Californians typically are at 3.5 years of age.)

Still, keeping tabs on his weight will give a more useful picture.

Have you seen any big indicators that something could be going on with his kidneys?

No--not other than some weight loss and increased hay/water consumption some days. He's still using the litter box consistently and doesn't have any urine on his fur. It is hard to tell if he's urinating more frequently, since it's tricky to catch him at it. My DH changes Pink's box and says he hasn't noticed an increase in Pink's urine output.


Jenk

 

[Jenk]

UPDATE: Yesterday--and not for the first time recently--Pink drank twice his normal amount of water. He also ate much more hay than usual.

Thus far today, he's drank as much water in a 12-hr. period as he normally does in a 24-hr. period. And rather than take breaks from his litter box--which is his usual behavior--he's been eating hay in his box almost constantly. (He did the same thing yesterday.)

If he were consuming more water and a typical amount of hay, I'd worry less because I'd think the increased water consumption was due to the drier air. But an increase in both hay and water consumption worries me.

I have paper towels below Pink's grate to determine his urine color at this point. And I'll try to get a more accurate weight on him tonight with my DH's help. (Last night, I had to try to remember the several weights I got while holding him, since I didn't want to set him down/pick him up to get multiple weights on him.)


Jenk

 

[LakeCondo]

I think you should call the vet & set up something. The weight loss is about 10% & he's filling up with water & hay rather than things with nutrients.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

:yeahthat:

 

[Jenk]

LakeCondo wrote:

I think you should call the vet & set up something. The weight loss is about 10% & he's filling up with water & hay rather than things with nutrients.

He's still filling up on his pellets and greens without any issues, but, yes, his hay/water consumption have me concerned. Also, his urine output--between 11:30 pm last night and 11:30 am today--is faint in color.

I will call the vet's office.

 

[Jenk]

Aargh! The vet I most want Pink to be seen by isn't in the office until 1/5. Since he's treated rabbits--and exotics only--for many years, I would trust his initial assessment (based on an exam and test results) the most; so I've made an appointment for 1/5 with the understanding that I'll take Pink to another vet at that clinic or another vet I trust at another clinic, if anything changes/worsens.


Jenk

 

[LakeCondo]

I thought of one more thing, to do until the appt: give only the amount of hay that he used to eat. Lucile Moore says too much hay can cause an impacted cecum, adding to his problems. This sounds like the one in a million case where unlimited hay isn't ok. Give more pellets & other things he likes instead of the extra hay.

 

[Jenk]

LakeCondo wrote:

I thought of one more thing, to do until the appt: give only the amount of hay that he used to eat. Lucile Moore says too much hay can cause an impacted cecum, adding to his problems. This sounds like the one in a million case where unlimited hay isn't ok. Give more pellets & other things he likes instead of the extra hay.

I've not fed Pink extra hay, so I may gauge how quickly he's chowing his usual amount of it.

Since you've mentioned it, I do recall reading something about too much hay possibly causing digestive problems. (Now I wonder if eating hay in a faster time period could cause such issues. Oy.)

I can feed Pink more greens without any major issues; I don't know how his system might react to an increase in pellets. (Aren't pellet-ration changes to be done slowly?) If anything, I could give him an extra Tbsp. of pellets in the evening, along with his nightly greens.


Jenk

PS: I also want an appointment with the one particular vet because he practices holistic medicine in tandem with Allopathic (Western) medicine; so if something were found to be wrong with Pink's kidneys, there may be some supplemental herbal support we could use to boost his organ function for a time.

Man, my fingers/arms/legs are crossed so tightly in the hopes that something of that serious nature is not ailing Pink.

 

[LakeCondo]

Near-emergency situations don't call for gradual changes. Pellets are just hay [though not in ideal form] with other things like the nutrients he's clearly not getting. If anything I'd give less hay than he normally ate & offset it with pellets. Or you can get nutrients into him some other way, like high calorie greens.

 

[Jenk]

LakeCondo wrote:

Near-emergency situations don't call for gradual changes. Pellets are just hay [though not in ideal form] with other things like the nutrients he's clearly not getting. If anything I'd give less hay than he normally ate & offset it with pellets. Or you can get nutrients into him some other way, like high calorie greens.

Earlier tonight, I fed Pink extra greens, as well as an additional 1 Tbsp. of pellets. I'll likely give him another Tbsp. of pellets--an extra 1/8 C.--before going to bed.

I realize I know nothing at this point, since no tests have been run. But couldn't pellets be risky, in terms of protein content, if kidney issues are at play? Still, I don't see myself having much choice in terms of increasing his pellet ration for the time being.

Not to sound daft, but which greens are considered high-calorie?


Thank you,

Jenk

 

[LakeCondo]

I don't think you have much choice about giving more food with nutrients.

As to high-calorie greens, there really aren't any that I know of, just low-cal & very-low-cal [iceberg lettuce]; avocados are high calorie & green but not greens. So I really should have said fruits, like a little canned pineapple, or pumpkin puree.

 

[Jenk]

LakeCondo wrote:

I don't think you have much choice about giving more food with nutrients.

As of 2:45 pm today, nearly all of Pink's hay is gone. (I set aside some of it, so that he wouldn't inhale it all.)

His appetite remains insatiable. He ate hay during the overnight period, finished 5 Tbsp. of pellets in an hour, then ate about 3 C. of greens. After that, he continued eating hay.

He has drank less water today than I would've expected, which, at this point, is bad; his body needs the extra water to help move all the food--especially the dry, 1st-cut hay--through his system.

As to high-calorie greens, there really aren't any that I know of, just low-cal & very-low-cal [iceberg lettuce]; avocados are high calorie & green but not greens. So I really should have said fruits, like a little canned pineapple, or pumpkin puree.

I do have some canned (plain) pumpkin on hand but won't be able to offer it to him until later this evening. There's no guarantee that he'd like it--or that he really needs it, considering all the pellets and greens he's willing to eat.

My fingers remain crossed that Pink's symptoms are caused by something odd, but fixable. I can't bear the idea of him having kidney failure at just 3.5 years of age.


Jenk

 

[LakeCondo]

If he's getting a lot of pellets, he doesn't need the pumpkin, but some doesn't hurt. And what 'a lot' means isn't clear, but Lucile Moore's new book says that a normal-weight rabbit should get an average of 1/4 cup daily per kg [2.4 lbs] weight, with adjustments based on how stable the weight is.
So I guess I'm out of ideas & hope someone else will add their comments.

 

[Jenk]

LakeCondo wrote:

If he's getting a lot of pellets, he doesn't need the pumpkin, but some doesn't hurt. And what 'a lot' means isn't clear, but Lucile Moore's new book says that a normal-weight rabbit should get an average of 1/4 cup daily per kg [2.4 lbs] weight, with adjustments based on how stable the weight is.
So I guess I'm out of ideas & hope someone else will add their comments.

I've decided to get Pink the soonest possible appointment with another vet I trust. Unfortunately, she also sees cats/dogs, so her schedule is usually booked up more than I'd like. I'm aiming to have Pink seen by her before 1/5, as that's when the other vet returns from vacation and the soonest he could see Pink. (These vets are at different clinics.)

My decision is due to Pink acting as if he is starving, even though he's receiving his normal amount of food. The only change is that I'm doling out his hay throughout the daytime, so that he can't eat it all within a few hours. As it is, I don't think he's drinking quite enough water to keep up with the drier food--pellets and hay--he's been consuming. So waiting until 1/5 for an exam seems more and more risky.

I'm sure the first vet will want to do blood work; I'll likely take Pink to the second vet to discuss the results further (depending on what they are). Of course, the second vet will charge me an extra $20 for a "second-opinion" visit if I do that, but I want/need some answers at this point.


Jenk

 

[LakeCondo]

Sounds good.:imsick::nurse: