Color advice needed

[evansrabbitranch]

Ok I have 2 votes for blue point, but I do not see blue. I was taught that with angoras the color is based on the normal fur on the face, not the wool as the wool gene can distort color a lot. I also have several people saying no, look at the face its a smoke pear. These are not the best pics, but its what I have right now.

When I first got him, he was dirty and badly needed burshed. The dirt in his coat had me thinking siamese sable at first. Now I am clueless and getting more confused :?.

I wanted to show him but I have to know for sure what color he is. I was told the former owners showed him and was assured his is a blue point, but I can't see how I can believe that as he has no tatoo and I know they must be tatooed to be shown. Please help!

 

[Jaded]

To me it looks like a Siamese Sable going thru a molt.
It is deffently not a blue point, blue points only have light points on there nose and ears.
Smoke Pearls are not the only ones with dark faces.

It sounds like their person you got him from lied to you about him being shown, ive had that happen before to.

Does he have a pedigree? what colors are his parents?

 

[evansrabbitranch]

Oh yes, I have his pedigree and I found the person that sold the parent stock to the person I got him from and they verified everything except his color. They will see him tomorrow night as they actually run the rabbits 4h.

The sire is Black, Dam is listed as Sable but the person who sold him the parents says she is positive she was a black. Sire's parents are Black and REW, the black's parents are broken blue torte and black. The REWs parents are REw and REW. The Dam's parents are sable and broken chocolate. The sable's parents are black and black. The broken chocolate's parents are black and broken blue.

Now there's a hodge podge for ya. Thank you again for any help. Also if it helps the pedigree I got has a photo of him taken I believe last October, maybe November. I took the photo for them. The photo shows the face color not as far down the neck as it is now, and the wool is a creamy off white, now the rabbit's face color covers the neck and the wool has a brownish tint to it but is still off white. I tried to copy the photo off the file, but it didn't work. Ah, I found it in another place, here it is:

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Easy peasy, he's a COLORED! lol!

But seriously, he's a siamese sable/seal. I'm a shaded freak, and you can't fool me even with wool. (Sable point satin angoras are my goal. ;P)

 

[4kr]

Looks like a siamese sable to me!;-) Pretty bun by the way!

 

[twinkiez]

Siamese Sable

 

[Skybunny11]

Looks like a Siamese Sable, Ive been looking for one but none of the breeders around me have any He's very cute!

 

[Starlight Rabbitry]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Easy peasy, he's a COLORED! lol!

But seriously, he's a siamese sable/seal. I'm a shaded freak, and you can't fool me even with wool. (Sable point satin angoras are my goal. ;P)

Siamese Sable and Seal are two different colors. The rabbit in the pic would be a Siamese Sable.

Sharon

 

[ChocolateBunny]

I DONT KNOW!! anic:

 

[Sabine]

Starlight Rabbitry wrote:

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Easy peasy, he's a COLORED! lol!

But seriously, he's a siamese sable/seal. I'm a shaded freak, and you can't fool me even with wool. (Sable point satin angoras are my goal. ;P)

Siamese Sable and Seal are two different colors. The rabbit in the pic would be a Siamese Sable.

Sharon

I would have thought dark siamese sable and seal are the same. In the Uk they are to my knowledge once the rabbit carries c[sup]chl[/sup]c[sup]chl[/sup]

 

[evansrabbitranch]

Siamese Sable is genetically aaB_cchl_D_E_ Seal is genetically aaB_cchlcchlD_E_. Related colors but not the same.



Thanks all for the help. I will have to fix his pedigree then. I had to contact the head of the 4h here for advice because the people I got him from who claimed he was in dire need of a home would I please take him and care for him, now want him back because I am questioning his color. These are people I was helping to identify SELFs for petes sake. Shadeds are new to me and much more difficult when wooled.

 

[evansrabbitranch]

I got a new photo of him, he's getting more smokey black/gray to his wool. Its very interesting to see, and when I brush it becomes more visable as I remove the old wool from his coat. I just wish he wasn't so afraid of me

 

[evansrabbitranch]

Now I am totally thrown for a loop. I got my membership from the ARBA and my new standard of perfection and well . . . .If he is genetically a smoke pearl he would be DQed for having brown eyes. If he is genetically sable he'll be DQed for the blue tassels on his ears and wool on his legs under his coat kinda hidden that is also blue. I am so lost. I'm giving up on finding out his color and I won't be trying to show him. He'll be just fine as a sweet wooly pet. Seeing as how to my untrained eye he looks a little of both sable and smoke pearl.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

One gene difference, I know. I say seal/sable because with wool it's VERY hard to tell. We would have to see him at 2 weeks to know for sure.... >.

 

[evansrabbitranch]

Ya know I asked about that since the guy I got him from had produced him and the only baby pic he had was supposedly this guy's brother. Was all black with some silvery ticking all over, said he sold that one as a sable but did not have an older pic to show how he changed. I give up, I love him just the way he is

 

[pamnock]

I agree either siamese sable (I'm leaning towards siamese sable)or seal. However, Angoras are shown as either colored or white - knowing the actual variety isn't necessary. I think what you're seeing as "blue" on the tassels and legs is probably just diffused sable color. The bigger concern would be to make sure he makes weight and has the proper wool type.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

OhOhOH btw, they reallllly don't care about color. XD I've seen huge genetic messes pass through with flying colors. Like, things not even close to being accepted. lmbo!

My goal is still sallander or sable point SA's, but I'd probably have to buy a siamese satin buck to outcross to anyway. It'd be just as difficult as using a tort or orange to make true sable points in the long run. *facepalm* So goes with color projects when angora folk just kinda.... breed stuff together, and get 7 different colors in a litter. (Black tort, blue tort, chocolate agouti, lynx, fawn, chocolate ermine/pearl? and something else I don't remember from a chin x lynx.

 

[pamnock]

Even though Angoras are colored/white, the judge "should" be looking at each rabbit and determining whether or not the color is accepted. However, I have also seen a number of non-accepted wooled breed varietiesslip through.

 

[Toastasaraus]

lol you've seen it pass through with more than Wooled breeds!!!! Because you've been with me when I show my Seals as Siamese sables and they WIN not only their class but variety OH OH and not to mention the messed up blue gold tipped/opal thing my Mom bought that won a leg....

 

[pamnock]

Remember that a siamese sable being "too dark" (seal) is just a fault according to the ND Standard. I've seen a number of times when nice seals have done well being shown as siamese sables. With general type being 70 points and color being 15, the judge is going to pick the best type, even if it may have poor color. (Of course, completely "wrong" color would be a DQ).