ciprofloxacin /baytril

[jamesedwardwaller]

what would be the pros and cons of these two antibiotics.??-pm me,,sincerely james waller:wave::rose::?:bunnydance:inkbouce:

 

[Pipp]

We respectfully ask that members do not conduct correspondence in PMs.

The whole purpose of a forum is to pool and share information.

Inadvertent mistakes, outdated information, etcetera can go undetected in PMs, and its also beneficial to hear other opinions on issues.


:thanks:

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

Pipp wrote:

We respectfully ask that members do not conduct correspondence in PMs.

The whole purpose of a forum is to pool and share information.

Inadvertent mistakes, outdated information, etcetera can go undetected in PMs, and its also beneficial to hear other opinions on issues.


:thanks:

here i go again,,thank you pipp,..the idea was to be able to locate the post,,as you know new posts come in all the time,,and that is why there are more pages than i care to scan through looking for my post,,a search doesn,t necessarily net me any thing either...my appologies,,seems there are viewers but no takers yet,,are you up to the challenge.//.what experience do you have with these two meds and rabbits,,i would appreciate all info i can gather...sincerely james waller:wave::biggrin2::bunnydance::rose:

 

[tonyshuman]

Baytril's generic name is enrofloxacin. Ciprofloxacin and enrofloxacin are very similar. They're both fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Ciprofloxacin is the human equivalent of enrofloxacin. Enrofloxacin can't be used in humans. They are structurally very similar.

As with many of the fluoroquinolones, overuse has led to bacterial resistance developing. They have broad-spectrum capabilities, but aren't effective against anaerobic bacteria.

It can be effective against some bacteria, but again, resistance is an issue. Upper respiratory and urinary tract infections might respond to it, but very few abscesses in rabbits will respond to it. That's because the bacteria deep in an abscess are anaerobic.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_enrofloxacin.html

Cipro prescribing info:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2009/019537s073,020780s030lbl.pdf

 

[ra7751]

Haven't used those particular drugs in quite some time. Most up to date vets are even dropping Baytril for use indogs (and it's labeled for dogs). There is a newer member in this family of drugs that is not showing resistance issues....as of yet. The drug is Zeniquin (Marbofloxacin). There is a small chemical difference in Baytril and Cipro....and the use of Baytril in humans often leads to some very interesting side effects.

Randy

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

two-excellent, interesting answers,,thank you claire and randy,,how does azithromycin fit into the group,,isn,t it the big gun(randy).??--i am a strong believer in cultures-to identify bacterias,,until the test come back negative,for cecal dybiosis,coccidiosis,and ring worm-with the rabbit still shows bad signs of poopy bum,fur falling out and chewing on the bun area...hape daze-(-6yr.old-female rex)-was started on sulfadime-(trimethoprim/sulphadiazine.)-for 14 days-only slowing down the problem--the dvm had trimmed her nails-so i was checking her front paws-when on her left foot was a sharp scab--.(between fore finger and thumb.)-removed it and the toothpaste puss shot out,,--i informed the dvm it was abscess,,immediately started baytril/about 32mg daily-for 12 days--response was not as good as i had hoped,i switched her to cipro for the last 5 days,80mg daily--for very good responses to her inital problem,-fur is growing back,no chewing ,and just a slight poopy bum--if i have a question at this point it would be the duration of time the rabbit has been on antibiotics playing havoic on her organs,liver,kidneys,etc.??.-in closing,yes-probiotics/critical care twice daily,..sincerely james waller

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

ra7751 wrote:

Haven't used those particular drugs in quite some time. Most up to date vets are even dropping Baytril for use indogs (and it's labeled for dogs). There is a newer member in this family of drugs that is not showing resistance issues....as of yet. The drug is Zeniquin (Marbofloxacin). There is a small chemical difference in Baytril and Cipro....and the use of Baytril in humans often leads to some very interesting side effects.

Randy

baytril-(enrofloxacin)was banned for poutry use in 2005//,,approved for use in domestic and individual animals-however in humans can cause blindness,,but then the report refers to fluoroquinolones in general/not specifically baytril...i,ll shall do more research,perhaps its dna issues...thank you for your input randy-it is very much appreciated...sincerely james waller:wave::rose:

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

tonyshuman wrote:

Baytril's generic name is enrofloxacin. Ciprofloxacin and enrofloxacin are very similar. They're both fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Ciprofloxacin is the human equivalent of enrofloxacin. Enrofloxacin can't be used in humans. They are structurally very similar.

As with many of the fluoroquinolones, overuse has led to bacterial resistance developing. They have broad-spectrum capabilities, but aren't effective against anaerobic bacteria.

It can be effective against some bacteria, but again, resistance is an issue. Upper respiratory and urinary tract infections might respond to it, but very few abscesses in rabbits will respond to it. That's because the bacteria deep in an abscess are anaerobic.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_enrofloxacin.html

Cipro prescribing info:
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2009/019537s073,020780s030lbl.pdf

hi,claire thank you for your respone,it is valued.//.enrofloxacin is ineffective against the abscess,s internal anaerobes,,what effect does cipro have on these dasterdly bacteria,,my rabbit seems to be responding much better to cipro,than the other two antibiotics-listed below,,-and i am concerned about damaging organs and building a resistance....sincerely james waller:wave::rose:

 

[Pipp]

James, you can 'watch' your topics or have notifications (or the full texts) emailed to you. Go into the Menu, choose 'My Account'.

If you choose Watch Forums, then all the posts will be emailed to you. If you go for Watched Topics, you can have a list of topics to refer to every time you login.

You can check off the 'Notify me by email...' option, or you can also click on the 'Watch Topic' option if you're using the Quick Reply screen.

Hope this helps!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.



sas :bunnydance:

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

Pipp wrote:

James, you can 'watch' your topics or have notifications (or the full texts) emailed to you. Go into the Menu, choose 'My Account'.

If you choose Watch Forums, then all the posts will be emailed to you. If you go for Watched Topics, you can have a list of topics to refer to every time you login.

You can check off the 'Notify me by email...' option, or you can also click on the 'Watch Topic' option if you're using the Quick Reply screen.

Hope this helps!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programing.



sas :bunnydance:

thank you pipp,,but to my email is where i already have several hundred on the shelf,,so i was hoping to endeaver something different,,sincerely james waller:wave::rose:

 

[tonyshuman]

It's pretty strange that the abscess responded to cipro and not baytril, since they're essentially the same drug. In fact, I think that one may be converted into the other in the body. It was probably just a time lag between the drug showing any effect--it hadn't been in the system long enough to cause measurable improvement before you switched to cipro.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

tonyshuman wrote:

It's pretty strange that the abscess responded to cipro and not baytril, since they're essentially the same drug. In fact, I think that one may be converted into the other in the body. It was probably just a time lag between the drug showing any effect--it hadn't been in the system long enough to cause measurable improvement before you switched to cipro.

hi,claire..update on hapydaze.//.i am crossing my fingers as i did not have to wash a poopy bum today....its a first for a very long time,,..offered her some grass,with her -timothy,and small amount of purina,.//.her fur has almost totally replenished itself,,still a little bare skin and redness which gets treated with thermazene,,,her left paw is all healed up,,no swelling,lumps,etc.--still not out of the woods but doing alot better..//.in summary::she was on baytril for 12 days,,progress at 32mg daily was very slow(at best),-you mentioned cipro ineffective against anarobes,so bactrim-(sulfamethoxazole)-made up half of todays dose-we,ll see how she does on it..//.i have-dvm bills$400.00+ tied up so far,,hopefully won,t need blood tests.//.i have been weighing her twice daily with criical care/weight is down but stablized now-finally...sincerely james waller..don,t forget she is monitored on camera too!!:wave::rose:inkbouce::highfive::bunnydance::biggrin2:

 

[tonyshuman]

Well, I'm not a big fan of bactrim, since it is a sulfa drug, which can cause more GI problems. It is not effective against a large variety of bacteria, but only a few, and I didn't see pasturella on the list. You probably know that pasturella is usually the bacterium present in an abscess.

 

[ra7751]

Couple of things here. In a true abscess situation.... baytril, cipro or any of the sulfa drugs would have little, if any, positive effect. None of those are up to the task at hand. Sulfa has long been used (for the most part ineffectively) to treat staph and coccidia infections (albon is a sulfanomide and is ineffective against coccidia despite long held notions).

There are many pathogens that can be found in a true abscess....pasteurella, staph, pseudomonas and strep are just a few that "tag along" with the primary infection. If the above mentioned drugs make any improvement at all to the situations, it is the tag alongs and not the primary infection.

As far as cultures, I too like to do cultures....but like fecals, they can lead you astray. A prime example is pasteurella which is a faculative anaerobe. It sometimes doesn't survive the trip from specimen to petri dish. In a case like this, if you have clinical presentations of a bacterial infection with a clean dish, we treat for pasteurella. I have only managed to grow one specimen of pasteurella and that was a strain that was resistant to the commonly used drugs ( and this was quite a few years ago) and my first adventure outside the sulfa/floxacin treatment protocols.

I don't know so much about Baytril causing blindness in humans....but it has been documented in cats. The primary side effect in humans is much more interesting....and I will leave it at that.

Randy

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

ra7751 wrote:

Couple of things here. In a true abscess situation.... baytril, cipro or any of the sulfa drugs would have little, if any, positive effect. None of those are up to the task at hand. Sulfa has long been used (for the most part ineffectively) to treat staph and coccidia infections (albon is a sulfanomide and is ineffective against coccidia despite long held notions).

There are many pathogens that can be found in a true abscess....pasteurella, staph, pseudomonas and strep are just a few that "tag along" with the primary infection. If the above mentioned drugs make any improvement at all to the situations, it is the tag alongs and not the primary infection.

As far as cultures, I too like to do cultures....but like fecals, they can lead you astray. A prime example is pasteurella which is a faculative anaerobe. It sometimes doesn't survive the trip from specimen to petri dish. In a case like this, if you have clinical presentations of a bacterial infection with a clean dish, we treat for pasteurella. I have only managed to grow one specimen of pasteurella and that was a strain that was resistant to the commonly used drugs ( and this was quite a few years ago) and my first adventure outside the sulfa/floxacin treatment protocols.

I don't know so much about Baytril causing blindness in humans....but it has been documented in cats. The primary side effect in humans is much more interesting....and I will leave it at that.

Randy

yes,i agree,,.//.you mentioned zeniquin-(marbofloxacin)-earlier,.//.,perhaps thosesubjects which are resitant to baytril-(enrofloxacin)--should use zeniquin.??..i have a shortage of that at this time,,thats why i was using cipro and-some- bactrim.//.i have not seenmuch change in weight-gain.,,but still using critical care to keep the gi tract hydrated,and supplimenting a hay diet with a small amount of pellets and dandylions,grasses.//.the baytril/children causes cartilage problems,,some one said rabbitry is not a exact science yet,,but we keep trying...sincerely james waller--it is easier to treat my pigeons..:wave::rose::biggrin2::bunnydance:

 

[tonyshuman]

I believe Baytril has psychoactive effects in humans. :dunno:

 

[ra7751]

Yea....that would be the term.

 

[tonyshuman]

But don't take that as a suggestion to do anything stupid! (I think that's why Randy was dancing around it so politely.)

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

alrighty,,now we gotta topic..are we saying this is a mind enhacing med.??...cipro has a warning for psychotic people--as it enhances the likely hood of suicide....booo...i was born in 1951-(last century)-is baytril like magic mushrooms.??....wow..sincerely..james waller,,rrr,rr

 

[tonyshuman]

Like most things that are psychoactive but not illegal, there's not a ton of info out there. Also like most things that are psychoactive, not a good idea for one's general mental stability. :biggrin2: