Can't help but be ashamed to be human....

[jcottonl02]

No it's quite fine thanks

I don't require any articles. I am completely well informed, and have the opinion of most, and the opinion that will help save the planet.

But thanks anyway

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

For anyone who does want to read about it, here are some articles:

http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm

http://www.globalwarminghype.com/upld-book403pdf_.pdf

There are many, many more if you just google global warming.

 

[missyscove]

jcottonl02 wrote:

Missyscove- Yes, it's completely true that cows produce methane, but do you know who else produces methane?
HUMANS
and no one advocates getting rid of them.

If you expel 500 litres of methane each day then I would advocate getting rid of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL I am joking of course.:biggrin2:

However, cows account for 14% of the world's methane emissions, so reducing that would not help entirely tbh. It is just a very funny concept. Lol i have worked around cows for a while and I swear all they do is fart lol!!

ETS- Wow animal science major sounds great! I'll be started my Zoology degree this year, and then onto either marine ecology or animal conservation year after that.

Yeah, I'm pre-vet for now, but general chem is just about killing me so we'll see what happens with organic chem.
I really love it though. Growing up in Los Angeles, I've never really worked with livestock and production agriculture but I really enjoy it.

 

[Aina]

Honestly, any large animal that numbers in the billions will leave a pretty large footprint on the planet. But that is what the planet is, a big footprint for various species.

The climate has changed all through time. Glaciers have cycles of expanding and contracting. We are just about in the mid ranges of climate heat. But the planet is warming up and this time it is the humans fault and it is going to wipe out all the species on earth and then we will all DIE!

Uh yeah, I could have a minor by now in climate change with all the courses I have taken, but I still don't quite buy it.

So, in the 14th century we had a mini ice age. You know what happened after that? Global warming!! AHHH!!! Except that time it global cooling was caused by a volcano.

How are we not a natural force and a volcano is? Aren't we just a very highly evolved animal? Any animal that is large as us and have 6 BILLION in their species are certainly going to have some effect, but the planet should be able to adapt. That is what evolution *does* Some species adapted to a meteor, they will adapt to humans.

(Now, if I were to take the creationist view then we would be screwed, lol. God only created a certain amount of animals and as soon as they are all gone then we will DIE. But I am in the middle, really)

 

[irishlops]

irishbunny wrote:

jcottonl02 wrote:

irishbunny wrote:

irishlops wrote:

irishbunny wrote:

I don't think you have to worry about there never being green areas in Ireland or in the UK, there will always be some, there has to be, they can't build over every hill and mountain, it's not possible and anyway they wouldn't.

if thats is directed at me, i know that. im just showing the author of the thread that its in ireland, some of it not protected, or boggy, and we have not built on it.
.

The author of the thread

I am aware that there is plenty of countryside not built on but I just see the rate at which we build over things, and I think it is only a matter of time before they somehow find a way to build over everything

I highly doubt it, don't panic, there are smart, professional people that do stuff to make sure we don't lol

my brother john is an enviromental and civil enginner.

he helps stop people build on things

 

[PepnFluff]

Yeah were due for another ice age arn't we?
To be honest, recently I have seen very little on environmental issues in the media, I'm not a hype buyer into sorta person. Obviously oakridge we see quite diffrent perspectives, In my mind, which is full of unbiased scientific and quite black and white facts, we have created much of this. Yes the world Is warming, and its melting things etc all naturally but things that if this was all "natural" and you look at the patterns over past centuries, and what is happening now shouldn't be happening at such rates if it was natural

"We expect in the next few days and weeks, that the northern ice front will lose between 800 and 3700 square kilometres of ice," says Angelika Humbert of Münster University, Germany, who has been using ESA's Envisat probe to monitor the events.

That isn't natural.

 

[BethM]

missyscove wrote:

2) Yes, some farms may be disappearing, but it's important to note that, at least in the US, small family farms really aren't economical anymore. Sure, it's great to see a small dairy, but that small dairy can't support a family. A large dairy that takes advantage of technologies including BST and sub therapeutic levels of antibiotics is not only economical but also more efficient- more milk per cow. Also, most dairies in the US are still family owned, it's just that they're larger than they were before.

I'm sort of late getting in to this, so I'm behind a bit....

I buy my milk from a local, family-owned dairy. That dairy actually does very well here. Their milk is in Whole Foods, as well as one local grocery store chain. The use no growth hormones, which I totally support. (I read that the hormones are injected into the cows' udders, which can cause irritation, inflammation, and sometimes infection, leading the cows to be put on even more antibiotics than they already are. If this isn't correct, I want to know.) So anyway. No BGH. Plus, the milk tastes much better, and stays fresh much longer than the cheap milk that's been shipped from two states away. And it comes in a glass bottle that I can return and it will be used again.
Yes, it is a little more expensive than the "imported" milk. It's actually cheaper at Whole Foods than the other store. They also have flavored milk (banana, strawberry, orange, and root beer), cream, butter, and ice cream.

I think the problem is, people are so wrapped up in getting a lot of stuff for very little money. But we need to re-evaluate what is actually important in life. I can't go around complaining that there aren't any local dairys any more, but be buying the cheap milk instead of the good stuff from the local dairy. I love milk, I drink it every day, as well as make my own yogurt with it. But I've cut down my milk consumption so I can afford to get the good, local milk.

(So you know, I'm on a very tight budget. But I am willing to make sacrifices for the things I care about. I would prefer to drink a half gallon of good milk a week, than a gallon of cheap milk that tastes bland and starts going bad before I finish it.)

 

[jcottonl02]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

For anyone who does want to read about it, here are some articles:

http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm

http://www.globalwarminghype.com/upld-book403pdf_.pdf

There are many, many more if you just google global warming.

I thought you were going to find me some "past the media, real, reputable sources and published journal articles" not a few hastily organised websites with plenty of cynisism and big words, but don't really seem to be trying to get their point across.

To me, those sort of sites (which could be knocked up by anybody and posted on the internet) seem to spend a lot of their time trying to get a one up on global warming, rather than actually trying to present open-minded theories and facts.

You can easily find plenty of good, reputable sites by typing global warming into google too- maybe you should do that, to open your mind a bit more

Noone is 100% certain that humans have had the biggest impact on global warming- it is just a much agreed with theory. And to be quite honest, people have nothing to lose by believing global warming exists, because they will cut down on water, electricity, fossil fuels etc. which will most definately help the planet in many ways.

So really, believing in global warming and trying to help; you have nothing to lose.

What a fantastic quote this is from 'AnInconvenient Truth' :

" It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it "

Just something to ponder over.

Missyscove- you are going on to do a veterinary degree! Good for you!!!!! That's so interesting and fullfilling. I am considering, depending on how I feel, moving onto veterinary after my Zoology degree. It was quite a decision between Vet and Zoology when I was applying, but my calling to Zoology just squeezed me over towards it lol. I think my passion lies in animals in the wild, their habitats and ecology etc. and marine biology is a definate possibility.

There's just so many things I want to do!!!!!



Aina- yes I do certainly see where you are coming from- the world adapts fantastically to its hardships.

The only problem is- we have got so clever that we have no natural predators that can easily access us- we have almost 'cut ourself off' from the real world, if you like. We don't have disease, we have vaccines, we have plenty of housing and food (lots of us), and we don't have any predators. (well...we do but we have totally surpressed them).
That's not natural! Everything has a predator. No population multiplies unless tampered with, because everything is in balance. Just look at what we did to Australia by introducing rabbits from the First Fleet and see what lengths they went to toget rid of them- man made rabbit borne diseases ssd:all because people tampered with life. And now rabbits get these diseases all over the world. It wasn't intentional, but you can't quarantine a disease etc. Life always finds a way.


We are THE dominant species on the planet. I am not sure that was supposed to happen. The whole idea of nature and the circle of life opposes our very existance as a dominant species. It's a whole circle, from microorganisms to developed organisms, of feeding and life.

I just think we should live as part of the world. Not try desperately to separate ourselves from it and move out of all natural aspects of it (not that I'm complaining that I won't get eaten by a bear )

Bethm- yes I totally agree. We are so wrapped up in our little worlds that it is only us who matter. People buy the cheapestchicken possible, cheapest eggs etc. and don't realise they are funding a mass torture of animals.

And good for your for buying local, fair and morally run milk.

 

[jcottonl02]

Morally run milk??? :?That makes no sense haha lol.

I meant milk from a respectable and morally run place

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

jcottonl02 wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

For anyone who does want to read about it, here are some articles:

http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm

http://www.globalwarminghype.com/upld-book403pdf_.pdf

There are many, many more if you just google global warming.

I thought you were going to find me some "past the media, real, reputable sources and published journal articles"

I didn't come across any journal articles on the regular internet (or any good sources FOR IT, for that matter) and am not wasting time to do so. But my point was that something cannot be "fact" when there are oppositions against it.

Most of the good resources I have found are through published, scientific journals that my college subscribes to. I have access to them on the internet, but you cannot get in without a password since you have to subscribe to them. I can certainly copy/paste a few articles if anyone is interested, but you said you weren't so I didn't bother before.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

jcottonl02 wrote:

" It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it "

Just as it is easy to get a man to discover something when his salary depends upon it.

Seriously...the fact that global warming was 'created' by a political party and suddenly we're all going to die in 10 years...that doesn't set off a little red flag for anyone else?

Global warming has been going on for longer than any of us have been around. And only recently have we decided the world is going to end in a few short years.

 

[jcottonl02]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

jcottonl02 wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

For anyone who does want to read about it, here are some articles:

http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm

http://www.globalwarminghype.com/upld-book403pdf_.pdf

There are many, many more if you just google global warming.

I thought you were going to find me some "past the media, real, reputable sources and published journal articles"

I didn't come across any journal articles on the regular internet (or any good sources FOR IT, for that matter) and am not wasting time to do so. But my point was that something cannot be "fact" when there are oppositions against it.

Most of the good resources I have found are through published, scientific journals that my college subscribes to. I have access to them on the internet, but you cannot get in without a password since you have to subscribe to them. I can certainly copy/paste a few articles if anyone is interested, but you said you weren't so I didn't bother before.

Actually if you read your second article you posted, you'll see that even the anti-global warming extremists still admit that it's fact that humans have contributed, even if ever so slightly, to global warming.

Well..no I am not interested, because I think i have quite an open mind, and have done a lot of my own research. It's my own opinion, and I think that should be respected. If someone doesn't agree, then fine, but it's my own opinion, and (in my opinion) I believe it is the only true one.


Seriously...the fact that global warming was 'created' by a political party and suddenly we're all going to die in 10 years...that doesn't set off a little red flag for anyone else?

Global warming has been going on for longer than any of us have been around. And only recently have we decided the world is going to end in a few short years.


Ah!!!! Now I can see why you are so biased against global warming! No one in their right minds would actually think any of that. If you think that most people think that then you are very wrong!
No educated, intelligent, logical person believes that "the world is going to end in a few short years" due to global warming lol.
I think what most people believe, and i think you have got a bit confused with that, is that global warming has been around for a long time, before we even knew about it. It's been slowly happening over many years.
Then we suddenly discovered fossil fuels, and it's rate went up alarmingly. So now once everyone has realised the extent to which they have been releasing carbon emissions, and what effect it is having, they are trying to drastically cut back on water, electricity and fuel etc. to try and reduce global warming, whether we have caused it or not.

 

[irishlops]

jcottonl02 wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

jcottonl02 wrote:

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

For anyone who does want to read about it, here are some articles:

http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm

http://www.globalwarminghype.com/upld-book403pdf_.pdf

There are many, many more if you just google global warming.

I thought you were going to find me some "past the media, real, reputable sources and published journal articles"

I didn't come across any journal articles on the regular internet (or any good sources FOR IT, for that matter) and am not wasting time to do so. But my point was that something cannot be "fact" when there are oppositions against it.

Most of the good resources I have found are through published, scientific journals that my college subscribes to. I have access to them on the internet, but you cannot get in without a password since you have to subscribe to them. I can certainly copy/paste a few articles if anyone is interested, but you said you weren't so I didn't bother before.

Actually if you read your second article you posted, you'll see that even the anti-global warming extremists still admit that it's fact that humans have contributed, even if ever so slightly, to global warming.

Well..no I am not interested, because I think i have quite an open mind, and have done a lot of my own research. It's my own opinion, and I think that should be respected. If someone doesn't agree, then fine, but it's my own opinion, and (in my opinion) I believe it is the only true one.


Seriously...the fact that global warming was 'created' by a political party and suddenly we're all going to die in 10 years...that doesn't set off a little red flag for anyone else?

Global warming has been going on for longer than any of us have been around. And only recently have we decided the world is going to end in a few short years.


Ah!!!! Now I can see why you are so biased against global warming! No one in their right minds would actually think any of that. If you think that most people think that then you are very wrong!
No educated, intelligent, logical person believes that "the world is going to end in a few short years" due to global warming lol.
I think what most people believe, and i think you have got a bit confused with that, is that global warming has been around for a long time, before we even knew about it. It's been slowly happening over many years.
Then we suddenly discovered fossil fuels, and it's rate went up alarmingly. So now once everyone has realised the extent to which they have been releasing carbon emissions, and what effect it is having, they are trying to drastically cut back on water, electricity and fuel etc. to try and reduce global warming, whether we have caused it or not.

so. because we have speed it up, its faster.
but even if we slow it down we cant stop it.
look the world is going to end. scince or faith. even both like me, some time, the sun will burn out.
some time food will run out.
some time our world will run out.
its done a good job for 6000million years.

 

[jcottonl02]

The sun will most definately run out of hydrogen ( I said this ealier), so the earth will inevitably come to an end.

We cannot survive without the sun.
However, the earth will probably end before the sun's end.

I don't like that attitude tho. I think we have to live for now. Rather than a pessimistic attitude of 'oh we are all dead anyway so what we do now doesn't matter', we should be thinking 'Right- let's make the most of life, and the world'.

We've caused so many problems. We should at least try to rectify them- as it's not only us who suffer at our own hand, but all the other species on the planet.

 

[irishlops]

jcottonl02 wrote:

The sun will most definately run out of hydrogen ( I said this ealier), so the earth will inevitably come to an end.

We cannot survive without the sun.
However, the earth will probably end before the sun's end.

I don't like that attitude tho. I think we have to live for now. Rather than a pessimistic attitude of 'oh we are all dead anyway so what we do now doesn't matter', we should be thinking 'Right- let's make the most of life, and the world'.

We've caused so many problems. We should at least try to rectify them- as it's not only us who suffer at our own hand, but all the other species on the planet.

oh, sorry for the pesimistic mood of it. i just in a bad stressed mood at the moment.
and typing does not come out in ceirten ways

 

[jcottonl02]

Not at all

It's hard not to be pessimistic in the light of what's happening.

I just think we all need to pull together in the world, rather than bicker amongst ourselves over whos right and whose wrong.

We see a problem- let's go about fixing it!

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

The whole thing was not even a concern until it became a political debate, and for that reason...it's ridiculous. I'm not even a member of either political party, so I can safely say that that doesn't affect my views either. I'm not saying (nor did I ever say) that humans have absolutely no effect on it. But we're not the reason for it, we're not the reason it's speeding up, and nothing is going to slow it down. As mentioned before, it's a natural process. Every single living species on this planet contributes to what happens here. Species come, species go. One of them will one day be humans. But what happens to the earth happens. All of our resources come from it and go back into it. I have yet to hear that the global "go green" is doing anything but making ourselves feel better about ourselves.

 

[JadeIcing]

There is always two sides to everything. Not everyone will agree about one thing. Just doesn't happen.

If we are a big factor or a small factor doesn't matter. It doesn't make us less responsible, it doesn't stop that we should do better by the planet.

If we can make it better shouldn't we?

 

[jcottonl02]

Well said- exactly my point

 

[missyscove]

BethM wrote:

missyscove wrote:

2) Yes, some farms may be disappearing, but it's important to note that, at least in the US, small family farms really aren't economical anymore. Sure, it's great to see a small dairy, but that small dairy can't support a family. A large dairy that takes advantage of technologies including BST and sub therapeutic levels of antibiotics is not only economical but also more efficient- more milk per cow. Also, most dairies in the US are still family owned, it's just that they're larger than they were before.

I'm sort of late getting in to this, so I'm behind a bit....

I buy my milk from a local, family-owned dairy. That dairy actually does very well here. Their milk is in Whole Foods, as well as one local grocery store chain. The use no growth hormones, which I totally support. (I read that the hormones are injected into the cows' udders, which can cause irritation, inflammation, and sometimes infection, leading the cows to be put on even more antibiotics than they already are. If this isn't correct, I want to know.) So anyway. No BGH. Plus, the milk tastes much better, and stays fresh much longer than the cheap milk that's been shipped from two states away. And it comes in a glass bottle that I can return and it will be used again.
Yes, it is a little more expensive than the "imported" milk. It's actually cheaper at Whole Foods than the other store. They also have flavored milk (banana, strawberry, orange, and root beer), cream, butter, and ice cream.

I think the problem is, people are so wrapped up in getting a lot of stuff for very little money. But we need to re-evaluate what is actually important in life. I can't go around complaining that there aren't any local dairys any more, but be buying the cheap milk instead of the good stuff from the local dairy. I love milk, I drink it every day, as well as make my own yogurt with it. But I've cut down my milk consumption so I can afford to get the good, local milk.

(So you know, I'm on a very tight budget. But I am willing to make sacrifices for the things I care about. I would prefer to drink a half gallon of good milk a week, than a gallon of cheap milk that tastes bland and starts going bad before I finish it.)

Keeping in mind that what I know about dairying is from a few days of general animal science classes- I don' t have a concentration in dairying and I haven't taken any actual dairy specific classes.

As far as I know, BST is NOT injected into the udder. Posilac is one BST supplement. You can see here exactly where they intend for it to be injected: the tailhead, shoulder or neck.
https://www.make10.net/FILES/Management Links/How to Administer POSILAC.pdf

A small, though statistically significant, increase in mastitis risk is associated with cows on BST, though I'm not sure exactly why that is.
Mastitis is essentially caused by something getting up inside the teat sphincter and causing an infection. Mastitis is generally treated with an antibiotic because there are regulations on somatic cell count in milk so in order to keep somatic cell count low, mastitis must be treated. The milk from cows that are treated with therapeutic levels of antibiotics- and thus cows that are secreting antibiotics in their milk- must be dumped. One of the dairies we toured uses this milk to raise their heifer calves instead of raising them on milk replacer. Bottom line is that you don't drink milk from sick cows.

Some more information on mastitis:
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_MASTITIS101.HTML


Local dairies can do really well- if they have the right niche market for their products.
The problem is that most small dairies don't have the ability- let alone the desire or the marketing ability- to process their own milk. What happens then is that they buy everything- feed, milking machines, labor, medications, barns- retail where they can't control the price and then they sell their milk at a wholesale price that they can't control either.
Interesting you should mention the glass bottles- one small dairy we visited that bottles their own milk and makes thier own ice cream mentioned that they switched from glass bottles to plastic and cartons after discovering that their customers weren't rinsing the bottles out and bacteria would grow inside and they ended up having to hand wash them after running them through their dish washer.

As far as the shelf life, yeah, that varies from dairy to dairy. For example, the Cornell dairy on campus can put a few more days on their milk than most can because they were able to track pathogens back to specific cows and solve the problems right here on our dairy.