Can't diagnose Penny...

[Offspring2099]

Hello,

We go to get Penny's incisors trimmed every month, while she manages to grind the molars herself pretty well. Every month it takes her about a day to get back to her normal self.

This last time about two weeks ago, she never really got back to her normal self. I suspected molar spurs, and when we went to the vet few days ago, he said that there was one tooth that could be a problem. Since it was towards the front he cut the spur.

What's been happening lately is that Penny is ok one hour, but the next minute or so she bunches up as if something is wrong, and grinds her teeth a little. I let her out today and she had a blast running around, having fun, and I could see she is feeling better, but back in the bunny house after a while she would just sit up into a ball for a few minutes and show me that something is wrong.

What do you guys think? Could this be gas or something? She is not shedding, she is eating and pooping good.

Thanks for your time.
Dmitriy

EDIT: forgot to add, Penny is preferring wet down pellets over normal hard.

 

[Flashy]

Poor Bunny.

I don't know much about teeth but the fact that she prefers mushy pellets implies that something is wrong. Is it possible that maybe she has some sort of abscess?Or when the teeth were trimmed they cracked or somehow got damaged at the base or something? Or maybe she has a spur further backor the spur she cut wasn't cut short enough?(I'm shooting in the dark here, just almost thinking outloud for possible reasons for her to be in pain), or maybe when they did the spur or incisors she somehow wrenched her jaw and is getting jaw pain? Is it possible she could have a wobbly tooth?

Is there any particular time she looks more in pain? like during/after a particular thing? such as eating pellets, or hay, or drinking, or anything at all?

Is it possible it is totally unrelated to the teeth and might be a problem elsewhere?

I hope you manage to figure out what it is soon. Good luck.

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Is your vet rabbit savvy? Just asking. Anytime a rabbit prefers soft food, approaches food and backs off or drops food....I suspect something dental. Flatfaced rabbits such as Holland Lops and dwarfs arevery prone to dental issues. The only truly proper way to see the molars is under sedation. If you suspect molars spurs.....I would seriously consider having Penny sedated to take a good look. This should be preceded by at least a 2 view run of x-rays of the skull. I would be looking for some type of impaction of the molars....and a skilled doctor can tell if there are spurs, impactions or even an abscess or othersoft tissue injury. It is also possible that she might have a small gap between some of her teeth and getting a piece of food or hay stuck in there that is uncomfortable...sorta like the husks of popcorn do to us. This too can lead to an infection and/or abscess. It would be of benefit to Penny to consider extracting all six of her incisors if they are that maloccluded. We have rabbits without incisors and have several more scheduled to have that procedure done. Post op, for short term the recovery from this surgery is quite difficult and painful. We used the strongest of analgesics for several days. They also have to learn to pick up pellets without those teeth (but a maloccluded rabbit had issues already) and they quickly learn how to use those prehensile lips. See how blog and look for Noah as she was the first here to have her incisors extracted.

But bottom line here....I would be taking a very close look a the molars. Catching a potential problem early is much better than the alternative down the road.

Randy

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I wonder if there isn't an abcess or something causing this. Poor girl

 

[Offspring2099]

Flashy,

She seems more hutched up when she is in the bunny home, when she is out, she runs around like a horse. It's pretty random, she could be doing a bunny flop one second and another one I find her grinding teeth.

Randy,
This is one of the best vets in Los Angeles metro. He was the only one to diagnosed Penny's lose tooth a few years back. He also removed her dental abscess, while extracting a few molars. That's when her jaw shifted (I believe) and her incisors started not to grind normally.
I guess the next step is to put her under and have a better look like you said, but this will be 6th or 7th time for her going under. I really hate it.
I don' t know about removing incisor, they never really give her problems, we just trim them, she seems to have no problem with that.

I'll be keeping a close eye on her. Btw, she is still very enthusiastic about her food, I mean if I only leave hard pellets she does eat them, but she starts to dig in her bowl, and she does prefer soft pellets.

 

[Offspring2099]

God I hope not, we just took her of Bicillin in may after she was on it for about 8 months.


Bo B Bunny wrote:

I wonder if there isn't an abcess or something causing this. Poor girl

 

[Flashy]

To look at a totally different route (rightly or wrongly), could it be something in her hutch, like her flooring? or maybe getting in and out? <- obviously depending on thecage. When she goes in does she try and eat or anything?

When Sunshine had hismolar spur removed they made one of his teeth wobbly and whenever he wasn't distracted he would chew it and it was very much like grinding his teeth. You are probably right about getting him under again because it could be something far back in the mouth that can't be seen whilst he is awake.

 

[Offspring2099]

I guess, she is about the same when she is running outside her bunny house, she gets happy, then she hutches up. Not as much teeth grinding anymore, but still there is something wrong. She is not relaxing while lounging, and still grinding teeth a bit. She was eating hard pellets yesterday along with soft. I gave a call to our vet to discuss further treatment. I bet he is going to want to put her under, for a better look and xrays.

Flashy wrote:

To look at a totally different route (rightly or wrongly), could it be something in her hutch, like her flooring? or maybe getting in and out? <- obviously depending on thecage. When she goes in does she try and eat or anything?

When Sunshine had hismolar spur removed they made one of his teeth wobbly and whenever he wasn't distracted he would chew it and it was very much like grinding his teeth. You are probably right about getting him under again because it could be something far back in the mouth that can't be seen whilst he is awake.

 

[Haley]

Oh poor Penny. Im praying this isnt the abscess coming back. As others mentioned, its very likely its another molar spur thats just not visible without sedating her and really getting in there. Or a tooth growing the wrong way since the others have been removed, etc.

I'll be praying for Penny and I hope its nothing serious. You guys have been through too much this year.

Let me know if you need help, or just someone to talk to

*hugs for you and Penny*

-Haley

 

[naturestee]

I'm just seeing this now. Does Penny feel gassy at all? My foster girl Luna acted similar, although the booger didn't like wet pellets. She'd eat the dry ones but would dribble lots of little bits into the bowl while eating. She came into the shelter I volunteer at like this, and because she was in pain and couldn't eat much her intestines slowed down and filled up with gas. That's what was causing her to hunch up in pain, although she was still interested in running and playing. We had to treat the gas and slow GI tract and her malnutriton first, and then she got her molars ground down on Tuesday.

I'm surprised your vet didn't want Penny put under for a full dental check when he found the spur on the front molars. If there's some in the front, there might be some in the back that you can't see. I always hear about how it's impossible to get a good look at a rabbit's molars unless they are anesthetized, and my vet who was treating Luna told me the same thing. It's rotten that Penny has to keep going under anesthesia, but it's pretty much necessary.

I'm hoping it's just spurs. Vibes for no abscesses!ray:

 

[Offspring2099]

We had blood work done(Monday) and the results came in "good" for Penny. Vet says no abscess. My question is: Can you be 100% sure from blood work that there is no abscess?

 

[naturestee]

I thought abscesses were walled off from the rest of the body? I don't know how that would affect the white blood cell count which is what they would be looking at. It's good the blood tests were done though so you know all her organs are working normally. Liver and kidney problems can cause issues with anesthesia.

Has your vet done an xray of her head recently? That would give you a much better idea and will give you a look at all of the teeth, including the ones in the very back and the tooth roots.

 

[Offspring2099]

Sorry for a slow response. We decided to put her on bicillin for two weeks to see how she responds and so far she is a lot better. Vet thinks maybe its a small abscess in the same area as her original, but not big enough for a reason to operate, or maybe some kind of infection by the tooth.

If this didn't work, after two weeks we were gonna do xrays and fully check for spurs, but since she is doing good, I don't know. I'll talk to the vet in a week.

She did stop grinning her teeth about 2 weeks BEFORE we gave her bicillin, so that's also a good sign.

naturestee wrote:

I thought abscesses were walled off from the rest of the body? I don't know how that would affect the white blood cell count which is what they would be looking at. It's good the blood tests were done though so you know all her organs are working normally. Liver and kidney problems can cause issues with anesthesia.

Has your vet done an xray of her head recently? That would give you a much better idea and will give you a look at all of the teeth, including the ones in the very back and the tooth roots.

 

[naturestee]

I'm glad she's doing better! Keep us updated.