Calcium, Veggies, and the Older Rabbit

[m.e.]

At the bunnies' vet visit yesterday, I asked the doctor if there were certain things to keep an eye on as the rabbits age (Rex is 6, Peanut is 5). He said the most important things were their teeth, their G.I. tract, their weight, and their diet.

On the first three counts they're doing great , but the vet did express concern over their daily salad. NOT to say that the veggies were bad, but that many leafy greens contain a lot of calcium, and that can potentially lead to urinary problems as rabbits get older. It's a catch-22, considering that green leafy vegetables are usually the best for bunnies.

He didn't suggest discontinuing the daily salads, but said just to keep an eye out for urinary problems.

So I did a brief search, and found a couple links that may be of interest. I wanted to post them for anyone else who may have older rabbits and/or include a lot of greens in the diet:

Lowering Blood Calcium - includes list of vegetables and their calcium content

Bladder Stones and "Sludge" - problems with high blood calcium concentrations


Has anyone else had any experience with high calcium, from veggies or otherwise, causing problems?

Any idea why this is a particular problem in older rabbits?

 

[Lindsey]

Thanks for those sites! I give my rabbits a lotof dark leafy greens, but right now they're young. At least now I knowits something to look out for in the future!

 

[seniorcats]

If it's any help, we have had rabbits livetogrand old ages- Freddie 12, EugeniaVictoria - 13 and Coney who died a week before his 15thbirthday. None of them had problems with calcium, bladdersludge or GI stasis. All ate a small amount of pellets,unlimited timothy hay and daily salads.

It may be a problem in older bunnies because they start to loose kidneyfunction as they age. I am just speculating. Sincewe have senior cats, we have found many start loosingkidneyfunction around age 10 (elevated B.U.N. and creatinine on bloodwork).

For the bunnies, we limit the greens that are really high incalcium to twice a week and we try to watch the 'gassy' cruciferousgreens. There is still plenty to choose from for the bunnies.

 

[m.e.]

Thank you, seniorcats. It's nice to hear from someone with experience

I don't plan to discontinue the salads, I believe they are beneficial(they also eat limited pellets and unlimited grass hay). Like the docsaid, unless there's a problem, no need to change anything .

 

[LuvaBun]

Very interesting. I give Pernod and Perry adaily salad, and vary it every few days. I may cut back on the Kale andsubstitute something else with less calcium content.

Seniorcats - nice to hear of some long-lived bunnies and what they eat. - Jan

 

[vashira]

Hello everyone. I'm new here. I loverabbits and have two boys who adore each other. My rabbit Charlie had abladder stone removed last Friday. The vet accidently tore his Utererin the process and had to do some creative surgery when the stitcheswould not hold on the uterer (tube that goes between kidney andbladder). She gave him 50/50 chance. I'm happy (actually thrilled) toreport Charlie is doing great. Appetite is awesome but because she hadto sew his bladder smaller (to cover the uterer that was ruptured) hepees a lot. I counted 11 times in 3 hours last night. Regardless, he'sdoing great. He had an xray prior to surgery which also showed a kidneystone as well and what looks like sludge high up near the kidney in theuterer. At this point since he's doing so well, we'll probably leavehis kidney alone and hope it doesn't keep getting inflamed (alreadyfair bit bigger then the other one). He's going in for suture checkthis Friday and I might have xray to see if anything has changed withkidney and maybe blood test to see if kidneys are doing their filteringjob well.
I've changed his diet to low calcium veggies, fruit and finally havehim on Bunny Basic T (oxbow company), as well as Orchardgrass. I had tried many times mixing Bunny Basic T with hisregular alfalfa pellets and he would not eat them. Somehow Ithink bunnies know what they need to heal. Here is a link to calciumlevels in veggies and fruit. I found it quite helpful.

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/rwf/articles/calcium.htm

Wish I'd known sooner about how bad high calcium levels can be inbunnies. I would have gotten him off the alfalfa pellets as well asalfalfa hay long ago.
Now I'm crossing my fingers hoping nothing happens with the stone inhis kidney and no stone forms from the sludge in his uterer.

 

[Carolyn]

Bumped a link that Pam posted about The Geriatric Rabbit.

 

[Spring]

1 cup and 100g? I'll have to look up about that.Does it usually offect older rabbits more often? I have a rabbit that'sa few months over a year. Can this still be an issue? I was prettyscared after seeing that 200 for parsley, as I fed it to my rabbitalmost everyday!

 

HI Vashira:

Welcome to the Forum :

Glad your little one is doing well after hissurgery . If he will allow for cranberry juice, I would add half to his waterbottle or crock , be sure it isntone made mostly of sugar .Dajeti2 didthis with her rabbits when they were going throughstasis and it helped a gooddeal to keep the kidneys flushed.Eventhough he is peeing a considerable amountthe acids in the Craberryjuicemay help break down thecalcium deposits just as itmayin humans . it will also help keep thenew forming ones under a sembalance of control.

1 cup and 100g? I'll have to look up about that. Does itusually offect older rabbits more often? I have a rabbit that's a fewmonths over a year. Can this still be an issue? I was pretty scaredafter seeing that 200 for parsley, as I fed it to my rabbit almosteveryday!


Spring:

Not every rabbits is assusceptable as others , Some as they grow olderhave a higher chance of bladder sludge and kidneystones . Even young rabbits canget them also . Treats are just that treats,A Few pieces ofparsley a day along with other leafy greens inmoderation willnot hurt them.

Moderation is the Keyto keepingeverybun happpyand healthy.

 

[vashira]

Merry Christmas everyone! Thank you Gypsy, Ifound some cranberry juice (mixed with apple but no added sugar), butCharlie doesn't seem to like it too much. I tried pure, now I'll trymixed with water.
I had blood tests on Charlie's kidneys, done and they are filteringvery well. I also had an ultrasound done and to my amazement, thekidney stone did not show up. As well, the kidney was now hardlyswollen, just a little bit. The vet who performed the bladder surgery,thinks it may have been crystals and not a solid stone. She thinks itmay have come out in the backed up urine, once she removed the bladderstone.
So far so good. Now we wait. The creative surgery the vet did to fixthe ruptured uterer involved pulling the bladder on both sides andstretching it up to cover the ruptured uterer. She sewed it like that,kind of like a tunnel over it. Hopefully, once the sutures dissolve, ifthey dissolve, the uterer will have repaired itself. Hmm, makes mewonder if she used regular material rather then the dissolving type.Does anyone here know much about dissolving sutures? Can they Notdissolve? If the uterer did not repair itself, the urine will leak outinto his body.
I tell you, I'm really having trouble sleeping, worrying about this.
His urinating has slowed down a fair bit. Last night, he went twice inan hour and a half, compared to 11 times in 3 hours about a week ago.He's still eating very well, is very happy and doing binkies in theyard.
Well, just wanted to update the situation. The more we all know aboutwhat can happen and what can be done about it, the better off we are. Ihope this can help others.

 

[seniorcats]

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo4.1.html

Ontario House Rabbits has a new and interesting article on urinarycalcium problems and a good diet suggestions. It's worth theread.

 

[RO STAFF]

:bunnydance:

bump for angieluv

 

[naturestee]

vashira wrote:

Does anyone here know much about dissolving sutures? Canthey Not dissolve?

Yes, it is possible for dissolving sutures to not dissolve.My vet had to remove the knot from Fey's dissolving suture a monthafter the surgery. It had not dissolved and was twisting theinner skin layer. My hubby's knee surgery stitches didn't alldissolve either, but they were external.

I haven't seen most of this thread- it has some great info on it,especially the article that Seniorcats posted. I know Arletteand Cocoa from another forum- he's quite old now and still kickingaround.

 

[Chaton]

I've recently had quite a bit of problems with calcium in the diet.

I took Dante to the vets because of a urinary tract infection. They took a radiograph and his bladder was full of calcium! (His bladder showed up as clearly as his bones! He was previously on unlimited pellets, unlimited hay, and 1 cup of veggies (approx.) per day. It was pretty horrible. The excess calcium led to a bacterial infection and urine scalding.

After lots of TLC which included baths, changing towels multiple times per day, giving medication (both topical cream and oral), switching pellets and hay, he started to grow his fur back after a couple of weeks.

It's been 3 months and he was completely healed. However, over the weekend I noticed him peeing on himself again. Quick trip to the vets, and sure enough he still has calcium build up.

I had kept him on the same diet as recommended by the first vet and he was being fed Oxbow's bunny basics T 1/4 cup of pellets, unlimited timothy hay, and carrots and romaine lettuce.

Now, the diet has changed a little bit more. He's getting 1/4 cup of pellets that have been soaked to make a mash (he'll eat anything), and I'm sticking to veggies that have lower then 20 mg calcium (Cilantro, swiss chard, sprouts) at 1/4 cup per day. I'm also flavouring the water and trying to see if that will help.

Any other suggestions that I haven't think of would be great!

 

[naturestee]

Hi! Welcome to the forum. FYI, people will have an easier time noticing your questions if you post them in a new thread. The Infirmary is a good place to talk about health stuff.

Unfortunately, some of the best articles on calcium in rabbits no longer exist. I really wish I had just copied all these sites to my computer when I helped put the Library threads together all those years ago. Anywho, I would recommend feeding quite a few more veggies. You don't have to worry as much about calcium from the veggies as from dry stuff like pellets or alfalfa hay, because the nutritional stats for the veggies are always done from their dry weight. This means that the amount of water was not taken into account. Fresh veggies generally have enough water to significantly dilute the calcium they contain. However it's not a bad idea to avoid the veggies with the very highest levels of calcium, although I'd reduce or eliminate the pellets first as they are concentrated minerals. I know that is what my rabbit-savvy vet prescribes.

IMO (and I'm somewhat knowledgeable about kidney/bladder stones in rabbits), I'd reduce the pellets to 1/8 cup or less and increase the veggies to at least 1 cup a day, preferably more. My buns all get 2+ cups a day depending on their size and metabolism. Canned pumpkin is a yummy, vitamin A-packed treat that has lots of water in it. Adding fresh or frozen cranberries or blueberries is also a good idea, as they contain chemicals that protect against infection in the urinary system. I get whole, fresh cranberries every fall and freeze them, then give the frozen cranberries as treats. You could feed 1-2 every day. I only give them once in a while because none of my buns have urinary issues. Flavoring the water is good, but give him a source of plain water in case he doesn't like the flavor. You'll also need to wash the bowl/bottle more often. That brings me to another point- rabbits generally drink more water from bowls than they do from bottles, so switch to a bowl if you're not already using one.

If dietary changes do not help, you may need to give sub-q (subcutaneous) fluids on a regular basis. Your vet will teach you how. This flushes the kidneys and bladder, so it can prevent some calcium build-up, flush out calcium sludge (and maybe stones if they are small), and makes it easier for the kidneys to do their job.

Hope that helps!