*BUNNY DIARRHEA* Infection?

[lovelops]

I would try to order things online and have them delivered. I know how the pet store situation is down in South America. I went looking a few times when I was with my husband in Peru (he's from Peru) and things are a bit scant there so I can only imagine that it's about the same where you are. Another option would be if you are from North America and come visit your family every X times a year to take one suitcase and fill it up with stuff to last you. That is what his family does when they visit here. They buy and take things back from here like the end of the world is coming.

So the meds that they ordered is in Quito? Or are you in another area of the country?

See if you can stock up. Or can you get it from a neighboring country like Peru, Columbia, etc? Sometimes it's easier to
cross borders down there and pick up meds then wait and travel in the same country. I know this from things I've seen done by my husband's family when I was down there.

If you need someone to pick up things and ship them there to you let me know. I know services here where they do the same thing I said above, stick it in a suitcase and charge by the pound, but you will get the things and not have to worry about aduanas which is a pain in the butt in Peru and I'm sure they are the same where you are as well.

Hang in there and take care!

Vanessa

 

[JBun]

Almost all rabbit vets here say the exact opposite, 'more fiber'. Depending on what's in your pellets, they will have a certain amount of fiber, but I would be worried about the quality as well as the consistency of ingredients with the pellets available to you. It's not good to suddenly change foods or certain pellet ingredients, with rabbits. But if you understand how a rabbits digestion works, you would understand that lots of fiber is necessary for them. Plus if you really think about it, this is what wild rabbits eat, not man made pellets

E. coli, can be a problem bacteria that can occur in rabbits. So that does make sense. What doesn't make sense is why the trimethoprim sulfa didn't take care of it. As far as I know, that antibiotic should be effective against that bacteria. Plus I don't understand why your vet needs to special order in a different antibiotic when you could have just continued a little longer with the one you had, and only changed antibiotics if the trimethoprim wasn't showing it was being effective, but it did look like it was but that you may have just needed to give a little longer. When you get the new antibiotic, just make sure to check it is safe for rabbits before administering it.

So did the vet find that Korn has bladder stones through xrays? I have read of furosemide being used in rabbits for this type of problem, so apparently it is considered safe for rabbits. The dosages info that I found was around 1-5mg per kg. To be giving 20mg, Korn would have to be a very large rabbit(4kg). One other thing for rabbits with bladder sludge/stones, is ensuring they get plenty of fluids. Does Korn seem to be in any pain from this problem?
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Furosamide.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.htm (warning: link contains medical related photos)

I'm glad you got the cage problem sorted

 

[mariethomas]

This is very helpful and thoughtful.
Yes, South America does not supply many things for animals. But every time I go out to a vet, they always have a lot of medicine surprisingly. I can't even order the medication my vet has in mind because he still hasn't told me what it is, so I can't even go looking for it myself, or have another vet bring it in for me. Also, I don't think a lot of websites will ship to where I am located. And a lot of things get lost in the mail here.
I am in another area of the country, called Azuay. We, do not carry any types of hay apparently. None. I have no idea why. We just carry alfafa and things that apparently all small animals eat. I know Quito does though, but there is no chance of me ever flying out there because I cannot. Thank you.


JBun, I change their pellets so much because it's impossible to stay on the sames ones permanently.
Is E.coli fatal? I don't know how they could have contracted it, but you were probably right about the veggies. Veggie related question: I just bought some parsely and it has a very strong smell? Not a good one, but even after washing them off it still smells. Is this a way to contract it?

Is it possible that my rabbits have Bacterial and Mucoid enteritis, even though they were only diagnosed with E.coli? Because the type of mucus that I find (rarely now a days) is not clear like the one after statis, but red or orange.
BUT, I don't know if this has anything to do with E.coli, and the medication that I'll hopefully receive soon is to solve the E.coli situation. Does this include any mucus and sticky poop too?

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm
Is what I am referring to, and seems like the best information I have found on it.

No, he did not. The moment I mentioned it (2 vets) without seeing him immediately said he has stones. He is doing much better today and is peeing fine. Korn is very small and under a pound, so I don't know why the dose was given but it seems to not have any negative effects. He shows no signs of pain, neither of them do. I just heard some tummy noise from Casper yesterday.

Now, I just returned from my vet and he said that it'd be here by 7:00 tonight *maybe*. But in the meantime he gave me the same thing they were given two days ago, in a syringe with a needle.
I do not know how to administer a needle to a rabbit, nor could I even if I knew how. It is a clear liquid, that is said to be much more effective than the actual drug it self. (This is suppose to help a lot until I give them the actual medication) But now my problem is, my vet did not pick up his phone and now he is closed. If it is possible to take the needle off the syringe, could I give it orally? Or is this something that MUST be given by needle? I don't want to waste time and the medication I just paid for, or worse, to have them get worse because they were not given this. I don't know what is inside the syringe as he always skips past this question! Also, Korn has to take his medication again, so could I give him both today? Would that be too much? Thanks so much!

 

[ladysown]

so your rabbits are infected with E.Coli.

From Merck's
Two types of colibacillosis are seen in rabbits, depending on age. Rabbits 1–2 wk old develop a severe yellowish diarrhea that results in high mortality. It is common for entire litters to succumb to this disease. In weaned rabbits 4–6 wk old, a diarrheal disease very similar to that described for enterotoxemia is seen. The intestines are fluid filled, with petechial hemorrhages on the serosal surface, similar to the pathology described for both Tyzzer's disease and enterotoxemia (see Enterotoxemia). Death occurs in 5–14 days, or rabbits are left stunted and unthrifty. Diagnosis is made by isolating E coli on blood agar and then having the isolate biotyped or serotyped. Electron micrographs of E coli attached to the mucosa are also helpful. In severe cases, treatment is not successful; in mild cases, antibiotics are of value. Severely affected rabbits should be culled, and facilities thoroughly sanitized. High-fiber diets appear to help prevent the disease in weaned rabbits.

So you need a high fibre diet and meds and they should clear up just fine.
You need to clean and sanitize their environment as that is where they are picking it up from.
No need to panic unless they have a severe infection... just work on getting them better.

 

[JBun]

That's good that Korn is doing alright on the medication and is peeing again. You will just want to make sure he has access to plenty of water. Because the medication is a diuretic, he's going to need to drink a lot more.

If you are uncomfortable giving an injection, probably best not to do it. The vet really should have showed you how. But if he wasn't very specific about what medication is in the syringe, I would be very nervous about giving it to my rabbit. I would never allow a medication to be given to my rabbit without the vet telling me exactly what it was first. If you don't know what is inside the syringe then DONT give it! Some medications can be disastrous to give to rabbits orally. Best to wait until the new medication comes in. Starting a new course of the trimethoprim sulfa is a possibility as well.

Parsley does have a strong herb smell, but if that isn't what you are smelling, it could be pesticides. I wouldn't give it if it doesn't smell right to you.

Yes, E. coli infection if left untreated, can turn out to be fatal. Bacterial and mucoid enteritis can be caused by the e. coli bacteria. Bacterial enteritis is just the name of the disease caused by a bacteria like e. coli. Rabbits can pick it up from anywhere really. Just like we can too, from contaminated veggies and such. The mucous is caused by irritation of the digestive tract, from the e. coli bacteria. The red and orange color, could have to do with some bleeding, or it may have to do with the bacteria itself, I'm not sure though.

 

[mariethomas]

No, I don't believe they have a severe infection. I'm just afraid of it progressing as I don't have any medication for them. They have no signs of diarrhea. Casper has it once in his life. Korn, never. Thank you!

 

[lovelops]

If I can find an agency that will ship to Azuay do you want me to send you a care package for the bunnies? Let me know it would be no problem. If I can put suitcases together for my brat nieces down in Peru it's no problem for me to put together 10 or 20 pounds of things for your bunnies that you cannot get down there... I'm not asking for anything in return either..

Vanessa

 

[mariethomas]

Wow that is definitely a very generous offer. I will make sure to keep this in mind, and to contact you in the future. Thank you.

I'm happy to post that I got the medication today. It's near impossible for me to get a good photo of the bag. But the important thing is the following:

OXITETRACICLINA 12% + SULFAMERAZINA 10%
The form is powder.

I have done my best to translate the following (if this helps with anything at all).
Growth promoter and enhancer
Composition: Oxytetracycline ...
Sulfamethazine 12.0g ...
Trimatropim 10.0g ...
Saccharin 1.0g ... 0.01g
Excipients q.s. ... 100.0g

First one is an antibiotic and the second an antibacterial. Third one is a Growth hormone. Fourth sweetener. Fifth is just to hold the components together.
NDICATIONS:
OXYTETRACYCLINE sulphamerazine 12% + 10% is recommended for infection in the ? & respiratory tract, and urogenital apparatus urogenta apparatus and digestive apparatus. In infections pneumonia, diarrhea, septicemia, Colibaciolisos Ridge Blue Enterititis, Coccidiosis, ERC, Infectious synovitis, Ricketisias and Mycoplasma. Using Sulfamerazine Oxiteraciclina 12% + 10% poultry, cattle, pigs, rabbits and guinea pigs get a better feed conversion. With lower feed intake, using 12% + sulphamerazine OXYTETRACYCLINE 10% higher weight gains and profitability are obtained.
RABBITS AND GUINEA PIGS
Preventive dose
1.5./lt
Curative Dose 3g./lt
duration time
4-5 days in a row


I was told to give this powder in the measuring cup he gave me 5 days, every 12 hours.
But now I'm confused? He said in a gallon of water, which would be half of this soda bottle that is 2 gallons, and that's a lot.

The powder in the cup with the line is also almost half of it...
Korn has a small bowl where he drinks his water from, I wouldn't want him to stop drinking it if I put it in there. And I wouldn't want him to waste it and tip it over either.
Casper has a small waterbottle, and he as well would stop drinking water if he detected medicine in it.

 

[JBun]

I'm glad you were finally able to get the antibiotic from the vet. But I have to say that it seems like it was a lot of trouble for an antibiotic that isn't all that effective on rabbits when given orally. It's safe enough to use with your rabbits(though there are always risks with antibiotics), but I really don't like the artificial sweetener in it, as they can sometimes cause issues for some animals. But the oxytetracycline, trimethoprim, and sulfamethazine are all safe antibiotics for rabbits.

It's up to you if you want to try this, though I'm not sure how bad saccharin is for rabbits. And I'm not sure if the dose is correct or not, and it would be really good to know the exact dose that the vet is suggesting to give before actually giving it, and being a powder this makes it more complicated. Plus it might be a bit difficult to get the right dose to your rabbits since it's in the water, and you have to ensure that your rabbits are drinking it. Is this something that you really want to give them? Are your rabbits still needing antibiotics at this point? Are they still showing signs of illness and what are they?

If either bun is still showing signs of digestive problems and you don't want to use the oxytetracycline, you could try another course of the trimethoprim sulfa, that you first used. Another good antibiotic for e. coli is chloramphenicol, but this may not be available to you. Neomycin is also effective, but carries more risks in using it.

 

[mariethomas]

I ended up skyping with my mother to do something about the dosage and I'm not completely sure if what I gave what is correct. But I don't believe it was enough to do any harm. I'm going to have to go back to my vet to talk about the dosage, again. Because what he suggested more than enough. Do you believe they still need antibiotics at this point? I do and I don't. The only signs of illness as of right now are sticky poops, and possibly any mucus I have a feeling I will see in the future. I don't think any of them are showing signs of digestive problems because they both poop well, and are still peeing and spraying too...

 

[lovelops]

Email me a bigger copy of the package. I can get my husband to translate..

[email protected] is where you can email the photo of the package.

Vanessa

 

[mariethomas]

Email me a bigger copy of the package. I can get my husband to translate..

[email protected] is where you can email the photo of the package.

Vanessa

I have emailed you. The subject is my username.

 

[JBun]

The sticky poop could also be a side effect of being on antibiotics. Is it the fecal poop that is sticky and is all of it like this or just a few? Is it mushy too? I have a bun that just had antibiotics, and her fecal poop got smaller and was sticky too, no mucous though and not really mushy, except for a few. It's up to you, but I would probably hold off on this new antibiotic, unless you start seeing mucous again or they started acting unwell. It may just be your buns need time for their digestion to get back to normal after the antibiotics.

 

[mariethomas]

Wouldn't this be a little too long to be a side effect?
They were off medication for about a week, then I did a test, and another week, and it is still sticky. Every single one of Korn's droppings are sticky, but recently some have been more wet than sticky. Caspers poops are sticky and got smaller recently, but not sticky like Korn's. Neither of them have any mushy poop. Maybe I should give it another week to return to normal? I wouldn't want it to be TOO late to give them medication as well.

 

[JBun]

With all of them being wet and sticky, it does sound like there is still a problem then. So you will want to continue antibiotics, at least another week, maybe two. Unless the poop gets worse instead of better. Then you may need a different antibiotic.

Here is the dosage info if you want to double check it. You will have to figure out how many g/mg of oxytetracycline, were in the scoop that you added to the gallon of water, and divide that by the ounces of water your bun drinks in 12 hours, to figure out how many mg of the oxytetracycline he is getting.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

If Casper's poop is sticky too, he may need antibiotics as well. And just be very watchful to ensure they are still drinking enough water.

 

[mariethomas]

I apologize for such a late reply. I wanted to post an update but never got around to it.

I eventually did figure out how much to give them, and I don't think I posted that either. It was up to the third line on the small cup I recieved, in a gallon of water. Then up to 2 on the syringe. Every 8 hours for 5 days.

I stopped giving the medication two days ago and now their droppings are almost completely sticky free! Except both of their poops are a teeny tiny bit sticky. But, a lot less than how it was before. And the last time I saw mucus, it was from Korn and was orange. About 5 days ago? Now his poops have turned golden instead of their usual brown, but I think it's from his diet. Some are wet how ever. So should I leave it at this, or could I give them some more? I wouldn't want it to be too much either. Other than this they both very well and seem to be having no other problems. Thank you so much.

 

[lovelops]

I apologize for such a late reply. I wanted to post an update but never got around to it.

I eventually did figure out how much to give them, and I don't think I posted that either. It was up to the third line on the small cup I recieved, in a gallon of water. Then up to 2 on the syringe. Every 8 hours for 5 days.

I stopped giving the medication two days ago and now their droppings are almost completely sticky free! Except both of their poops are a teeny tiny bit sticky. But, a lot less than how it was before. And the last time I saw mucus, it was from Korn and was orange. About 5 days ago? Now his poops have turned golden instead of their usual brown, but I think it's from his diet. Some are wet how ever. So should I leave it at this, or could I give them some more? I wouldn't want it to be too much either. Other than this they both very well and seem to be having no other problems. Thank you so much.

Marie

On the bag it also listed a dosage to give for 'preventative measures' I don't know if I gave that info to you or not, but I can go back and look and email it to you again. It looked like you could keep giving this as either medicine for 4-5 days or for X amount of time for preventative..

But I'm glad to hear that they are doing better! I was worried. I hadn't heard anything else!

Vanessa

 

[mariethomas]

I don't believe you did or I don't remember. But yes, the vet said 5 days. I did 5 days of treatment but it doesn't seem to be completely gone since some poop is still sticky. I am going to call him tomorrow and hope he understands about the "stickiness" in the droppings, because last time he said this indicates no problem. Thank you. They are doing well.

 

[lovelops]

I'll resend that info again. Check your email!

Vanessa

 

[JBun]

I wouldn't suggest giving antibiotics as a preventative measure, as this can lead to antibiotic resistance problems. They should only be used for treating actual bacterial issues. If you continued treating for a few more days, that should have been fine. 5 days really isn't a long enough course, and should really be given for 7-14 days. But it may just be that your buns digestive system needs time for the microflora to normalize after being on the antibiotics.