Breeding question

[paul2641]

clevername wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

Omg clevername that is the first thing I have understood this whole thread and it's what I wanted to know! Thanks clevername and bluegiants!

ok hold on. That's just the first stage.... Doing that will give you a charlie for another breeding.

I said a lot of other things. If you don't understand feel free to ask questions.

Ok I have bred suki to roger witch should produce a charlie then I just need to breed a charlie doe from that litter back to roger and I should get brokens yeah?

ps roger is tort.

 

[Flashy]

You won't get a charlie from a tort and a butterfly because it needs two butterfly genes, so you will only potentially get a charlie from breeding two butterflies.

 

[clevername]

paul2641 wrote:

Ok I have bred suki to roger witch should produce a charlie then I just need to breed a charlie doe from that litter back to roger and I should get brokens yeah?

ps roger is tort.

OK

You will get some brokens out of this litter. Depending on Roger they may be mismarked.

If they are, then you'll breed back to Suki which will produce some charlies.

Breed charlies to solids until you get the pattern you want. Of course you'll have more luck if you breed to solids who are also related to a broken.

I'd really suggest keeping some pedigrees....this could get messy

 

[paul2641]

clevername wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

Ok I have bred suki to roger witch should produce a charlie then I just need to breed a charlie doe from that litter back to roger and I should get brokens yeah?

ps roger is tort.

OK

You will get some brokens out of this litter. Depending on Roger they may be mismarked.

If they are, then you'll breed back to Suki which will produce some charlies.

Breed charlies to solids until you get the pattern you want. Of course you'll have more luck if you breed to solids who are also related to a broken.

I'd really suggest keeping some pedigrees....this could get messy

Do you have a site were I can like download. A blank set of pedigree papers So I can keep record?

 

[Sabine]

pamnock wrote:

I think that we need to review our policy again on anti-breeding sentiment in the "Rabbitry and Show Room". It was my understanding that breeding questions were allowed to be discussed under this particular forum, but yet we continue to have non-breeders discouraging breeding and harassing those asking questions about breeding.

As much as I agree with this in general I do believe that under certain exceptional circumstances the welfare of the animals should be our main concern rather than the fear of being confrontational.

 

[clevername]

paul2641 wrote:

Do you have a site were I can like download. A blank set of pedigree papers So I can keep record?

I use breeder's assistant to keep track of everyone. You can download a free trial here. These are full working programs, without time limit, but limited by the number of records can be added and anything you print will have 'Trial Copy' superimposed on the output.

 

[pamnock]

Sabine wrote:

pamnock wrote:

I think that we need to review our policy again on anti-breeding sentiment in the "Rabbitry and Show Room". It was my understanding that breeding questions were allowed to be discussed under this particular forum, but yet we continue to have non-breeders discouraging breeding and harassing those asking questions about breeding.

As much as I agree with this in general I do believe that under certain exceptional circumstances the welfare of the animals should be our main concern rather than the fear of being confrontational.

No one is being helped if new breeders are being alienated and are afraid to post. We do have experienced breeders on this forum who are willing to mentor and help with these type of rabbitry questions. That is the purpose of this section of the forum.

Please note the post on this policy: NOTE: PLEASE DON'T POST UNSOLICITED ANTI-BREEDING OPINIONS IN THE RABBITRY

Pam

 

[Sabine]

Pam, I absolutely agree in terms of a new breeder. Nevertheless if the person asking the question has a track record of "making wrong decisions" (and I'm using this phrase as a euphemism!) then it is rather natural that a lot of people's alarm bells start ringing and it is only natural to feel concerned.
Voicing this concern is not necessarily anti breeding advice in my opinion but an attempt to move the breeding in the right direction.
I have great respect for breeders on this forum and cannot imagine they would condone behaviour that compromises animals health and wellbeing.

 

[murph72]

Paul, can you post pics of your bunnies on here? Having pictures of each of them with their gender would be great....I guess I got confused when you said that Suki was a broken because I thought Suki was the Sable Point pictured in your avatar. I look at the markings and colors of my rabbits to see which would make the best mates. Sorry if you posted this elsewhere on the board...it would just be helpful in making a decision.

 

[paul2641]

murph72 wrote:

Paul, can you post pics of your bunnies on here? Having pictures of each of them with their gender would be great....I guess I got confused when you said that Suki was a broken because I thought Suki was the Sable Point pictured in your avatar. I look at the markings and colors of my rabbits to see which would make the best mates. Sorry if you posted this elsewhere on the board...it would just be helpful in making a decision.

I have pictures in my blog. But they arn't that good at showing them off, I will get some soon my sisters camera is with a friend so It will be awhile before I get any new pictures up.

 

[clevername]

paul2641 wrote:

murph72 wrote:

Paul, can you post pics of your bunnies on here? Having pictures of each of them with their gender would be great....I guess I got confused when you said that Suki was a broken because I thought Suki was the Sable Point pictured in your avatar. I look at the markings and colors of my rabbits to see which would make the best mates. Sorry if you posted this elsewhere on the board...it would just be helpful in making a decision.

I have pictures in my blog. But they arn't that good at showing them off, I will get some soon my sisters camera is with a friend so It will be awhile before I get any new pictures up.

where is your blog?

 

[paul2641]

clevername wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

murph72 wrote:

Paul, can you post pics of your bunnies on here? Having pictures of each of them with their gender would be great....I guess I got confused when you said that Suki was a broken because I thought Suki was the Sable Point pictured in your avatar. I look at the markings and colors of my rabbits to see which would make the best mates. Sorry if you posted this elsewhere on the board...it would just be helpful in making a decision.

I have pictures in my blog. But they arn't that good at showing them off, I will get some soon my sisters camera is with a friend so It will be awhile before I get any new pictures up.

where is your blog?

It's called lions den. It is like on page2 of the blogs. We are getting more rabbits for breeding soon.

 

[clevername]

Paul's Blog to save everyone the trouble.

Suki does appear to have good markings (assuming there is some color on her back too). Is she related to your other rabbits at all?

 

[paul2641]

clevername wrote:

Paul's Blog to save everyone the trouble.

Suki does appear to have good markings (assuming there is some color on her back too). Is she related to your other rabbits at all?

suki has them markings on her back too:biggrin2:, I love her, as far as I know none of my rabbits are related. So do you think roger is a good buck to breed to her to produce brokens?

 

[clevername]

paul2641 wrote:

clevername wrote:

Paul's Blog to save everyone the trouble.

Suki does appear to have good markings (assuming there is some color on her back too). Is she related to your other rabbits at all?

suki has them markings on her back too:biggrin2:, I love her, as far as I know none of my rabbits are related. So do you think roger is a good buck to breed to her to produce brokens?

There is no way of knowing without information about his ancestry. If he comes from a line of solids, unlikely. If he has one to two broken ancestors he'd be a much better candidate.

You can do a lot with your program if you start keeping and selling rabbits with pedigrees. Think of how much easier it would be for you if the place you bought Roger from gave you papers along with him.

How is that pedigree program working for you by the way?

 

[paul2641]

clevername wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

clevername wrote:

Paul's Blog to save everyone the trouble.

Suki does appear to have good markings (assuming there is some color on her back too). Is she related to your other rabbits at all?

suki has them markings on her back too:biggrin2:, I love her, as far as I know none of my rabbits are related. So do you think roger is a good buck to breed to her to produce brokens?

There is no way of knowing without information about his ancestry. If you he comes from a line of solids, unlikely. If he has one to two broken ancestors he'd be a much better candidate.

You can do a lot with your program if you start keeping and selling rabbits with pedigrees. Think of how much easier it would be for you if the place you bought Roger from gave you papers with him. How is that program working for you by the way?

All my rabbits were pet store bought so no pedigrees. Well rogers brother was solid black is that good?I haven't started using that softwear yet.

 

[clevername]

paul2641 wrote:

All my rabbits were pet store bought so no pedigrees. Well rogers brother was solid black is that good?I haven't started using that softwear yet.

What I'm saying is you can START recording pedigrees with what you have. You can help other breeders who buy off you by keeping track of your own rabbit's genetics, understand?

If Roger's sibling were a broken that would indicate that he inherited that trait from a parent--thus Roger would have brokens in his background and THAT would help. But since his brother was a solid that tells us nothing.

Try the program. It's really helped me with my rabbitry.

 

[paul2641]

clevername wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

All my rabbits were pet store bought so no pedigrees. Well rogers brother was solid black is that good?I haven't started using that softwear yet.

What I'm saying is you can START recording pedigrees with what you have. You can help other breeders who buy off you by keeping track of your own rabbit's genetics, understand?

If Roger's sibling were a broken that would indicate that he inherited that trait from a parent--thus Roger would have brokens in his background and THAT would help. But since his brother was a solid that tells us nothing.

Try the program. It's really helped me with my rabbitry.

Ok I'll start using it when I get my other rabbits for my programm!

 

[TinysMom]

clevername wrote:

paul2641 wrote:

All my rabbits were pet store bought so no pedigrees. Well rogers brother was solid black is that good?I haven't started using that softwear yet.

What I'm saying is you can START recording pedigrees with what you have. You can help other breeders who buy off you by keeping track of your own rabbit's genetics, understand?

If Roger's sibling were a broken that would indicate that he inherited that trait from a parent--thus Roger would have brokens in his background and THAT would help. But since his brother was a solid that tells us nothing.

Try the program. It's really helped me with my rabbitry.

Clevername - can you please explain what I've marked in blue above? I'm not sure that I'm following what you're trying to say.

In my study of genetics - what I have come to understand and been told is correct is that if the broken gene is present at all in the genetics - it shows up as a broken rabbit. So basically....carrying broken gene = broken rabbit (butterfly rabbit).,

Now I have talked to someone who bred broken Hollands for a number of years and she talked about something that she had noticed and that was - if she took a solid rabbit that was out of a litter that had a broken parent...that there were modifiers (I forget what she called it) that helped to make the broken pattern better when that solid rabbit was bred to a broken rabbit. It wasn't that the rabbit carried the broken gene though - it was that it somehow carried those modifiers? I'm not overly clear on that and am not breeding any more so I did not research it further.

Is that what you are referring to up above? If so - I'd love to learn more about that - and I'm wondering if I can get Pam Nock to come in here and explain some of that since she is truly our genetics guru...

Anyway - I just thought I'd ask you for clarification.

 

[clevername]

TinysMom wrote:

Now I have talked to someone who bred broken Hollands for a number of years and she talked about something that she had noticed and that was - if she took a solid rabbit that was out of a litter that had a broken parent...that there were modifiers (I forget what she called it) that helped to make the broken pattern better when that solid rabbit was bred to a broken rabbit. It wasn't that the rabbit carried the broken gene though - it was that it somehow carried those modifiers? I'm not overly clear on that and am not breeding any more so I did not research it further.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Paul is asking how to get well marked brokens not just rabbits expressing the broken gene.

Modifiers that shape the rabbit's pattern can be inherited without necessarily inheriting the broken gene. So if you have a solid who has ideally marked brokens in their background, that rabbit can be bred to another correctly marked broken to increase the chances of producing well patterned offspring.

I'm currently trying to get the broken gene expressed correctly in my Satin Angora lines so I'm still learning too. If anyone has anything to add to this discussion that would be really helpful!