Breeding (Funnily enough)

[TinysMom]

Flashy wrote:

I guess my idea about a sub forum was not necessarily just for breeders, just those that the rabbitry mods (or mofds in general) decided were 'ok' (ack, for want of a better word) to let in.

I understand where you're coming from - but for me - part of the hard thing is - how do you know that someone knows what they think they know?

Sometimes I see people join and post who have rabbitries and breed - yet I shake my head at some of what they say. Or others think there is only one way to breed. For instance - I want to say that I read in Europe - they don't use nestboxes. I think there are some cages where the nestbox is a wire box that hangs below the cage - I've seen pictures of that with meat rabbits in it. With certain does - I haven't used a nestbox until after they gave birth- I completely lined their cages with hay and scraps of fabric - but it never failed that those does wouldn't use a nestbox to give birth in it. Once the babies were born - I'd move them to the nestbox and mama was fine. Yet other breeders say, "Always use a nestbox"....and with those does - I wound up losing litters with a nestbox in place.

So I was in a frustrating spot - do what everyone says and use a nestbox (and lose the litter?) or create my own thing - and wind up saving the litter? By the way - these were for pets rabbits (although they could be show too) - but I wasn't trying to raise brood does that would be sold to other breeders and not use a nestbox for them. I'm probably not stating that right .. but oh well!

So my point is - trying to decide who to let in - would almost be more frustrating than moderating here!

Anyway - you've brought up a great thread.....

 

[Flashy]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo You have no reason to justify anything, no one does.

What I tried to say in my post (and apparently failed with) is that I understand that everybody gives what they can give, and that amount varies from person to person. Every mod and member here has a busy life, they have stresses, they have other things to do, and they probably have many more buns than other members, lol. What I was trying to say was that if there are people who don't post because they are anxious about their knowledge, or being judged, or whatever, then maybe we should try and 'cultivate' and encourage people to post more. There is a huge wealth of responsible breeders on this forum, and the more that chime in, in my eyes, the better, because the more the wealth of knowledge people on the forum potential get. It's no good relying completely on you mods because in addition to your real lives, you are mods, or senior mods, or admin, and that in itself adds a workload, but the more members feel able and want to post here, the better?

^That was in response to Peg by the way.

 

[BlueGiants]

A lot of "Breeders" are a bit "head-shy" about posting. You get bashed for your opinion by a certain group often enough, you stop voicing your opinion. That was the main reason for posting the "If you are not a breeder, you don't support breeding and you have nothing of note to contribute to a thread beyond expressing an opinion on breeding, PLEASE don't post."

And what works for a certain breeder may not alwaysfitother's opinion of rabbit care. But by discussing all this in the open, we all learn from each other, and always for the betterment of rabbits.

 

[Jenson]

Flashy wrote:

'"If you are not a breeder, you don't support breeding and you have nothing of note to contribute to a thread beyond expressing an opinion on breeding, PLEASE don't post."'

Jenson, can I ask, where is the line drawn? Generally or specifically?

As in, I no longer breed (or rather, am not breeding currently), and may not support someones choice to breed, so therefore I should stay away from a thread?

This is a tricky one. I think it's up to people to decide whether they can be fairly neutral in a post and whether or not they have anything of value to offer to a post. Of course, sometimes we will need to step in, but like the mod guidelines say, we are not hall monitors. I think that it basically comes down to this: if you have some helpful adivce to offer, go ahead. If not, leave it be. That is just my opinion of course, I didn't write the guidelines, that's just what I think of them.

As for the experienced breeders not being around much, I noticed that too since I have been back. Hopefully things will improve as people are getting more active. I think a lot of us just find it hard sometimes, I know Peg has said this before, but sometimes I can read a post and have to go and do something else because it's so frustrating. Of course it's very nice to be able to offer adivce and help people too which is why I do it, but it can be hard on all of us.

And Tracy I love hearing your opinions, you always raise good points and I think it's good for us to have a sort of review of how things are going and how we could improve!

 

[Jenson]

BlueGiants wrote:

We caneducate people that there are better ways to do things. We can discourage indiscriminate breedings. But we can not control everything. At least if we keep the lines of communication open, we may be able to influence people's decisions and the lives of their rabbits.

:yeahthat:

That's basically what I was trying to get at...and you got it in 4 sentences!

 

[irishbunny]

I really need to try and stay out of the rabbitry unless I have something to ask, I find it really depressing, for some reason I can't stop coming back.

 

[BlueGiants]

I think it's really great that Flashy brought up this discussion. It's excellent that we can focus on the "how's and why's" of what we answer and discuss in the Rabbitry.

I know how Peg feels for sure... we just get done talking someone through a bad kindling or dead babies, and someone else pops on to ask about breeding an older doe... or breeding a big buck to a tiny doe... or any of the other questions we've dealt with over the last year. And pardon the pun, but it's "deja vu, all over again".

We can't prevent people from doing dumb things. But if they ask our advice, maybe we can prevent them from doing it again.

 

[Flashy]

Jenson wrote:

BlueGiants wrote:

We caneducate people that there are better ways to do things. We can discourage indiscriminate breedings. But we can not control everything. At least if we keep the lines of communication open, we may be able to influence people's decisions and the lives of their rabbits.

:yeahthat:

That's basically what I was trying to get at...and you got it in 4 sentences!

I just wanted to say that I really like this sentence (and I quoted Jenson because I was too lazy to quote the whole thing then delete it down). Those are very wise words.

 

[polly]

i think sometimes we get a lot of mistake litters happening at once for whatever reason and that it is a great area of the forum for that and helping people and yes a lot of times if you feel the person won't listen then its really frustrating. It is a hard thing to get right breeding area on a most prominently pet forum but we do not bad. Things like meat rabbits are a reality and although its easy to say dont read if u have nothing to add invariably someone is bound to be incensed and feel they have to respond.
I know it would be hard to choose who could go into a restricted forum area for breeders but leaving a rabbitry here for everyone to use as well but could see some benefits as I am sure a lot of breeders maybe find it hard to ask soem questions that could be considered touchy though personally I would use a breeder only forum for that kind of thing.
Peg I have to agree with you there are times where it can take me a long time to reply if i feel frustrated about it but for different reasons to you I am more likely to engage mouth (or fingers in this case) before engaging brain!!

I think the only problem I find within the rabbitry is that people tend to see more the easy side as it would be inapropriate to post a lot of problems that we have or can have as breeders a lot of those things such as teeth problems max factors etc would show a lot of people that breeding is not as easy as putting 2 rabbits together and wham bam thankyou mam!! but i also understand that it is upsetting to people as well

 

[BlueGiants]

You are right, Polly! Sometimes it is a delicate balancing act.

 

[Jenson]

polly wrote:

I think the only problem I find within the rabbitry is that people tend to see more the easy side as it would be inapropriate to post a lot of problems that we have or can have as breeders a lot of those things such as teeth problems max factors etc would show a lot of people that breeding is not as easy as putting 2 rabbits together and wham bam thankyou mam!! but i also understand that it is upsetting to people as well

That is very true. We don't see a lot of people sharing their bad experiences, but they still happen.

It would be very depressing to have posts about things going wrong, but maybe it's not a bad thing once in a while if it will make people understand that breeding can be very hard.

It's one thing to read about the possible things that could go wrong, but then when you know that is has happened to someone maybe it hits home a bit more. I know it does for me.

 

[polly]

yes it does for me too.

Conundrum: a litter born with max factor babies no eyelidsall alive now do you leave them for nature to take its course which is very painful and slow or do you do what more breeders class as the humane thing and cull.

Is this then appropriate for the rabbitry forum on here or will it be to upsetting to a lot of people who read it but don't breed? do you take it elsewhere? but then people on here who see babies etc and decide they want babies like that never get to see that side of breeding as no one wants flamed from pet owners.

talk about deliacte!! thing is it does and can happen

 

[Jenson]

polly wrote:

yes it does for me too.

Conundrum: a litter born with max factor babies no eyelidsall alive now do you leave them for nature to take its course which is very painful and slow or do you do what more breeders class as the humane thing and cull.

Is this then appropriate for the rabbitry forum on here or will it be to upsetting to a lot of people who read it but don't breed? do you take it elsewhere? but then people on here who see babies etc and decide they want babies like that never get to see that side of breeding as no one wants flamed from pet owners.

talk about deliacte!! thing is it does and can happen

I think in cases like this we should talk about it. As long as there is a "Warning, may be upsetting" on the title I think it's okay.

At the end of the day, it's the rabbitry, it's about breeding, and sometimes breeding is not nice. People should know this when they enter the rabbitry and it's their choice to read.

 

[irishbunny]

You could make a sticky about all the different things that go wrong and call it something like ''The down side to breeding'' and have all the various things that can happen, with maybe some pics (unless that is too upsetting) and stories from people here that it has happened to. Just a thought.

 

[naturestee]

I would actually be interested in a discussion of what to do with fatally deformed babies- peanuts, max factors, etc. It's something you need to be prepared for when working with the dwarf breeds. What should I do if I come across this at the shelter? Dwarf buns of various types are pretty common.

Not to mention stillbirths (Jazzy had two DOAs in the second litter, very upsetting), stuck kits, pregnancy toxemia, enteritis (whee fun! I really should write up Dora's story)...

These topicsmay be upsetting for some members, but I think it's important for people who want to breed to go into it with their eyes open and be prepared for any problems. Also, even if you've been learning and breeding for a while you might learn something new.

We do have a policy here against discussions on meat rabbits. Everyone just gets too emotional and the thread gets crazy.

 

[polly]

fair enough to be honest I would have been very iffy posting a topic like that obviously I do not think any breeder doesn't understand there may be times when culling is your bestoption. and I do think people should see that side but it can be difficult for a lot of breeders to do that if they feel they may get flamed

 

[polly]

naturestee wrote:

I would actually be interested in a discussion of what to do with fatally deformed babies- peanuts, max factors, etc. It's something you need to be prepared for when working with the dwarf breeds. What should I do if I come across this at the shelter? Dwarf buns of various types are pretty common.

Not to mention stillbirths (Jazzy had two DOAs in the second litter, very upsetting), stuck kits, pregnancy toxemia, enteritis (whee fun! I really should write up Dora's story)...

These topicsmay be upsetting for some members, but I think it's important for people who want to breed to go into it with their eyes open and be prepared for any problems. Also, even if you've been learning and breeding for a while you might learn something new.

We do have a policy here against discussions on meat rabbits. Everyone just gets too emotional and the thread gets crazy.

I also feel that would be a good discussion especially as many people who want to breed their pets have a dwarf breed. perhaps you could start a seperate topic along those lines

 

[Jenson]

polly wrote:

naturestee wrote:

I would actually be interested in a discussion of what to do with fatally deformed babies- peanuts, max factors, etc. It's something you need to be prepared for when working with the dwarf breeds. What should I do if I come across this at the shelter? Dwarf buns of various types are pretty common.

Not to mention stillbirths (Jazzy had two DOAs in the second litter, very upsetting), stuck kits, pregnancy toxemia, enteritis (whee fun! I really should write up Dora's story)...

These topicsmay be upsetting for some members, but I think it's important for people who want to breed to go into it with their eyes open and be prepared for any problems. Also, even if you've been learning and breeding for a while you might learn something new.

We do have a policy here against discussions on meat rabbits. Everyone just gets too emotional and the thread gets crazy.

I also feel that would be a good discussion especially as many people who want to breed their pets have a dwarf breed. perhaps you could start a seperate topic along those lines

I think that's a brilliant idea. It would also be a good resource for people who wanted to be well prepared as well as showing people the dark side of breeding.

 

[murph72]

Could there possibly be a way to denote which members are breeders? That way anyone could post a comment, but those not familiar with the posters would know which advice was coming from a breeder.

I don't think making this forum "for breeders only" would be the way to go because it is a great resource for accidental breedings. Let's face it, baby bunnies aren't the easiest animals to sex for those that don't know what they are looking for. Pet stores sell bunnies claiming they are one sex and in four months the new owner finds out they are another. In these cases, those poor owners are desperate to get information about their unexpected litters. This is a great area for them to get that much needed information.

To be honest, as a breeder I'm most likely to look at the Breeders section and the Infirmary section as these are the areas where I'm most likely to either learn something else, or be able to offer advice/help for others if it is something I've also experienced. IMO, those are the two most valuable areas on RO and why I keep coming back.

 

[Jenson]

murph72 wrote:

Could there possibly be a way to denote which members are breeders? That way anyone could post a comment, but those not familiar with the posters would know which advice was coming from a breeder.

That would be a good idea, I think something like the mana we had before would work for this. I think again if were going to give a badge or something similar to breeders it would cause problems (we'll still have bad breeders wanting to be in the "breeder" club etc,), but if we could have some sort of "reputation" button like many forums do (that members click if they find a post helpful) that would be a fair way to do it.

I'm not sure if that is a possibility at the moment or if the mana is still being worked on, but maybe that's something for future.