Breeders Thoughts On Rabbit Bonding

[agnesthelion]

Oh okay will do Vicki. Glad I made my point and thanks to you for keeping the thread on topic
I'm not even a breeder anyway. I'll move on from this thread.

 

[missyscove]

Without time to do research into it, if I recall correctly different species of rabbits actually have different social dynamics with the species we've domesticated being more social than, say, our cottontails we have in the US.
I think a lot of it has to do with territory, and the size of it. I imagine that if I had a cat who saw its territory as a dog crate (like my bunnies do, although they are starting to learn that my whole room is their territory) and I tried to toss another cat into the mix, things wouldn't go well. The usual recommendation when introducing cats is to start on opposite sides of a door and it's suggested that dogs start on a walk in neutral territory. Our cats and dogs are also (generally) spayed and neutered when we make our introductions as well and I've definitely met cats and dogs who simply will not get along with another of their kind so I don't think it's fair to say that rabbits are really all that special in requiring effort to get them to live peacefully together.

 

[fuzz16]

I started with pet rabbits that are bonded and happy that way. I have had a rabbit that hates other rabbits that was happier alone.

There are a lot of breeders I have met through RT who like colonoies and love to see how affectionate they are toward one another. There are those that keep females caged together, even with litters. One woman I have gotten to know very well, has a NZ and polish together in a pen and the polish helps protect and care for the kits of the NZ.

I think it is extremely crued and arrogant to say breeders dont care about their rabbits and all they care about is multiplying their stock.

I find more and more how much i dislike RO for how small minded it has gotten over the years and how unfriendly if you do not have the average ideas of every other member.
Rat people, you know goosemoose? Ya, well this is the rabbit forum of goosemoose, which is not a compliment.

 

[tamsin]

I'd suggest going back to the roots and reading up on European wild rabbit behaviour (not Cottontails which are different). I think you'll find in quite a lot of ways both sides are right The Private Life of Rabbits is a good one.

Rabbits don't live in one big happy colony, they live in small family groups within that colony and there is territorial behaviour between those groups - mainly during breeding season.

However, how they display that territorial behaviour and determine hierarchy is important for understanding why bonding pet rabbits can be troublesome. For example, a rabbit's way of saying 'I acknowledge you are the boss and don't want to challenge you' is moving away from the boss. Put rabbits in a confined space and there is no way to move away and give that signal. Instead he's stuck in the other rabbits personal space i.e. signalling he wants to challenge which increases the risk of fighting.

Another example... you have a single rabbit that's been on it's own, so he's always been top dog. Best food, best sleeping spots - all his. Now add another rabbit that feels exactly the same way. Two rabbits that have always been top, never been challenged and have no social experience - again the environment increases the fight risk.

Female rabbits - they interact together in the fields, but have their own individual burrows for nesting. Unneutered pets have the same nesting drive. Which is why female rabbits often display hutch aggression - the hutch is their nest which only belongs to them. Put two together in a hutch, add in no experience of living in a social group and you can have issues even though multiple females in the wild can be in the same social group.

Wild behaviour explains a lot of way bonding can be hard - you're trying to mix two 'groups' from different territories, but rabbits that are bonded are often very happy (they belong to the same family group) and groom/rest/eat etc. together.

 

[woahlookitsme]

Thank you for that tamsin and well said

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Troller wrote:

I brought the topic up and asked mostly for a breeders persepctive because the amount of information from pet owners, rescues and socieities is staggering and I have what I believe to be a complete perspective on that side. However, breeders views aren't as thoroughly covered and seems there is more of a stigma to them voicing what they believe.

I understand your concern, that is for sure. For some, efforts to educate seem counter productive because it typically ends in a battle of wits, having to defend the hobby of raising rabbits in general. Not everyone is interested or open to understanding. So anyway, it's a shame because education is important, but that's why you don't see as much publicized from the breeding end.

I feel like we're at that point here where feelings are getting hurt and we've kind of moved away from the topic, but you're welcome to email me anytime. I love talking about my rabbits and am very open about the hobby with anyone who wants to learn more.

 

[Troller]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

I feel like we're at that point here where feelings are getting hurt and we've kind of moved away from the topic, but you're welcome to email me anytime. I love talking about my rabbits and am very open about the hobby with anyone who wants to learn more.

Thank you, I really appreciate that and don't be surprised when I take you up on that offer.

And your right, it does seem feelings are getting hurt and that was so not my intention. Simply this is the only site that has a large community which features members of all strata when it comes to rabbit rearing, and I wanted to explore opinions. I've read before where a subject like this becomes a hot button topic, but questions asked and answered never seemed to satisfy what I wanted to hear and know so I resorted to staring my own thread. Never meant to offend anyone.

Thanks Tasmin for your thoughts. Guess that's another book I'll add to my list.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

No no, I didn't mean to blame you! It's not your fault...it is unusual when threads in the breeding section *don't* turn out like this. I just figure while we're talking about bonding, maybe we should take a hint from our bunny buddies!

 

[woahlookitsme]

lol it almost seems as if rabbit raising has become as hot as politics on here

I wish that this topic being the Rabbitry and Showroom Thread we didn't have to worry about speaking as a breeder but it has become obvious from this that we feel that way. I was actually so interested in your question that I asked it on the Facebook of the ARBA and Ill pm you the results Sadly it got a huge debate also but from the show people complaints lol

 

[Troller]

woahlookitsme wrote:

I was actually so interested in your question that I asked it on the Facebook of the ARBA and Ill pm you the results Sadly it got a huge debate also but from the show people complaints lol

I really appreciate the interest and can't wait to hear what others have to say.

 

[BugLady]

This has been an interesting read so far!

I just thought I'd pipe in and say that not all bondings have to be forced or are contentious between adults. I brought Rascal to a shelter for "bunny dates", and when he met Appledot it was "indifference at first sight", haha. They are affectionate once in a while, not much, but they are wonderful together - never an ounce of aggression. Good at sharing food and snuggling. Since the day they met, they have not been separated.

They're both fixed, and both about 1.5yrs old.

I think so much comes down to knowing your rabbit(s) - what their living situation is like, what would stress them out, if they seem bored or lonely, if they are aggressive, etc. Breeder or pet owner, everyone wants their animals to be comfortable and safe, and that can be achieved in different ways.

 

[Troller]

I'm also curious to know how many people have bonded through bunny dates and how many through bringing home another rabbit (for whatever reason)?

 

[ladysown]

My thoughts as a breeder on bonding.

It totally ALL depends on the rabbits involved.

Seriously... it is SO individualistic with rabbits.

I have rabbits that sulk if they get a new cage wire mate. Seriously. They just go into this blue funk that can't be shaken. So I simply oblige them.

I've had young male rabbits live together quite nicely until they are nine months old ... well past maturity.

I've also had young male rabbits as young as eight weeks old demand to have their own space. I've had young does demand the same at nine weeks, and had others live together nicely even into their reproductive times (and end up sharing nestboxes).

Go figure.

rabbits are all very very individualistic which is a big reason why it is so hard to pin down what is truth and what is not. Could be all truth for all we know...it's just what works for that person with those particular rabbits.

 

[wendymac]

I was going to respond to this thread, but then saw it was back to the old "breeder bashing" that was so rampant months ago. For those with PETS, this was asked on the BREEDER thread...so your opinions on how/why a BREEDER does something isn't really relevant. And whether you care to believe this or not, some of us DO have their rabbits' best interests at heart. And no breeder breeds just to multiply their herd. That's very childish thinking, and shows that you really have no clue. There have been more "Oops, Fluffy accidentally got bred" posts from PET people than anything else. Breeders take the time to learn about their breed, learn the strengths/weaknesses of their breed, and match bunnies up to improve their stock.

Anyway, I did try doing the colony thing, twice. Both times it was a huge failure, with severe loss of rabbits. I'll never do it again.

If you watch your backyard, you RARELY see more than 1 bunny in the area (or a bunny with her kits). Rabbits, in the wild, do not want to drag predators back to their living quarters. If there were mass amounts of rabbits living in one space, how long before the predator found and killed the entire colony? To compare rabbits to dogs is plain ridiculous also. Dogs are pack animals, rabbits are not. Dogs hunt together, rabbits do not. Anyway, enjoy...I'll stick to FB breeder groups, where we aren't bashed for having a passion for our animals that goes against the "pet" mentality.

 

[MiniLopHop]

I wasn't going to say anything since I am not a breeder, but the question was asked about dating vs picking out the mate. I always do dates and have never had an issue interpreting behavior. They leave the shelter in the same cage and have never been seperated since. I believe in letting them get married out of love rather than a forced marriage because they have such strong opinions on the matter.

I find Ladysown's experience interesting. It sounds like you have seen bonding through the wires. That's great you are willing to let them keep the friendships, I think it really enhances their lives.

I wish I could understand the secrets they whisper about when they lay cheek to cheek.

 

[tamsin]

If you watch your backyard, you RARELY see more than 1 bunny in the area (or a bunny with her kits). Rabbits, in the wild, do not want to drag predators back to their living quarters. If there were mass amounts of rabbits living in one space, how long before the predator found and killed the entire colony?

The rabbits in the backyards of the US are generally cottontails (Sylvilagus floridanus) where as pet rabbits are descendants of of European wild rabbits (Oryctolagus cuniculus). The two have different habits and behaviour, so whilst not quite like comparing dogs to rabbits, it's not the best observation for pet rabbit behaviour either.

If you look at wild rabbits here in the UK (which are the same species as domestic rabbits and can interbreed), the rare thing would be to see just one rabbit. Drive along country roads in spring/summer and the fields and verges are teaming with rabbits. If you stop and watch for long enough and something disturbs them they bolt on mass. Have a look on youtube I'm sure there are lots of clips if you want to see for yourself the difference between them and Cottontails.

Living in a colony offers protection from predators, as more eyes mean more likely to spot danger - hence rabbits perescoping pose and warning stamp (to let the rest of the colony know about danger). European rabbits also build underground warrens to protect their young/hide from predators.

The book I mentioned The Private Life of Rabbits is a scientific study of a UK colony which is why it's a good resource for those wanting to know more about the origins of pet rabbit behaviour.