Bonding Question...

[bluedimplett]

I just brought home a 6 month old male lionhead which i adopted from a shelter. When i brought my female bun to the adoption center they seemed to get along in the neutral xpen. She was the one doninating by mounting on him and he didnt retaliate.

I just brought them home and put them in the xpen she is still mounting him and he is ok with it. But, the new thing she is doing is trying to nip/bite his head... ive seprated her twice already.... but i was sure if this is normal?

Pleas help!

 

[Amy27]

Sometime it takes some time for the rabbits to figure out who is going to be the dominate one. When she bites, I would move her away from him. Hopefully with more bonding time she will stop. When I first bonding my buns there was a lot of biting and chasing and they ended up working it out. Sometimes it just takes a lot of time and patience. Good luck and keep us updated on their progress.

 

[bluedimplett]

ok, its good to know that biting at the head can happen while bonding.

I tried them together one more time, i put them in the bath tub and she didnt attempt to bite him. which is good. he still doesnt seem to care, haha. I think its driving her crazy. While in the bath tub she kept putting her head under his, as if she was trying to get him to groom her which he wasnt.

 

[Amy27]

What a laid back bunny you must have that he doesn't care. That should really help in bonding. My rabbits have has done the head under another bun begging for kisses, when the rabbit won't give any. As you bond them more, the will work out who grooms who and when they will groom.

I have a lot of luck using the bathtub because it seems to make both bunnies a little nervous. So I think it is good you are using the bathtub. I would keep on doing what you are doing. Sounds like things are going good.

 

[bluedimplett]

Its been 5 days and still my female bun keeps biting my males head and sometimes on his side. He still lets her. He has mounted her once and it didnt seem to do much. Today, i had to separate her 5 times. I always tell her "NO" and it just seems to anger her.

What can i do?

 

[elrohwen]

Make sure you're doing bonding sessions in a neutral area like your bathtub. It sounds like your girl has a strong personality, so you need to be in a neutral zone.

I would also try stressing before sessions. Put them in a laundry basket and shake them around. Or put them on top of the washer or drier. Or take them on a car ride together. Stressing keeps them calm and allows them to snuggle without the nipping.

What you're seeing is totally normal though. With time your girl will stop the nipping. Just take it slow and use stressing to your benefit.

 

[bluedimplett]

I used the shaking the bunnies in the bathtub trick and it worked on the first day, she didnt nip at all in the bathtub. Yesterday, i tried again and she went back to nipping while in the bathtub.

Today, i didnt shake them in the bathtub and she is attempting to nip him, but this time he isnt letter her. He runs away from her and he thumps at her.

IS that good or bad?

 

[kirbyultra]

I think if he's now defending himself, he's had it with her being mean to him. His stress level is getting too high and she's not letting up. Her humping him is another stressor, so is the nipping. It's ok during bonding for her to do this, so long as HE is ok with taking it. If he is no longer willing to stand for it, I think something needs to change.

Is there any other neutral territory that you can use? Any other stressing you can do with both of the buns before the bonding sessions?

 

[bluedimplett]

kirbyultra wrote:

I think if he's now defending himself, he's had it with her being mean to him. His stress level is getting too high and she's not letting up. Her humping him is another stressor, so is the nipping. It's ok during bonding for her to do this, so long as HE is ok with taking it. If he is no longer willing to stand for it, I think something needs to change.

Is there any other neutral territory that you can use? Any other stressing you can do with both of the buns before the bonding sessions?

it seemed that he was defending himself. so, thats why i wasnt sure if it was a good thing. Right now they are in their own cages and he keeps approaching her side all curious, so it seems to me that he does seem interested in her. She isnt aggressive in her cage either when he gets close.

I have a very small apt. I am very limited on neutral areas. i can try the kitchen, or the public laundry room. I am thinking about doing the car ride with them.

 

[elrohwen]

Doing a car ride is a great idea. Also, what did you use to stress them and how long did you do it? You mentioned shaking in the bathtub, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you did. Since he is getting defensive of her actions, I think stressing will be your friend for this stage. Your boy will learn to trust her more, and it will settle your girl down.

 

[bluedimplett]

elrohwen wrote:

Doing a car ride is a great idea. Also, what did you use to stress them and how long did you do it? You mentioned shaking in the bathtub, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what you did. Since he is getting defensive of her actions, I think stressing will be your friend for this stage. Your boy will learn to trust her more, and it will settle your girl down.

I shook them in a laundry basket then put them in the bath tub. That was a suggestiong from a previous poster.

 

[kirbyultra]

Another thing you can try is shortening the length of the sessions. If you've been doing 15 minutes and there's mounting and nipping, try 5 minutes instead. Your boy needs to learn to trust her and your girl needs to know her behavior is going to be curbed. If the session goes for less time but ends without too much negative feedback, both buns may learn from it that bonding isn't so bad.

I was told by bonding experts from the local rabbit rescue when I was bonding my pair, having ten good 2 minute sessions is better than having one 20 minute session that ends badly for either or both buns.

 

[bluedimplett]

kirbyultra wrote:

Another thing you can try is shortening the length of the sessions. If you've been doing 15 minutes and there's mounting and nipping, try 5 minutes instead. Your boy needs to learn to trust her and your girl needs to know her behavior is going to be curbed. If the session goes for less time but ends without too much negative feedback, both buns may learn from it that bonding isn't so bad.

I was told by bonding experts from the local rabbit rescue when I was bonding my pair, having ten good 2 minute sessions is better than having one 20 minute session that ends badly for either or both buns.

Ok, i can try that. the sessions last about 20 min, because she doesnt nip the first 15 min, she begs to be groomed and when he doesnt groom its when she starts to nip at him.

last night i did notice that while they were in their own cages he did approach her cage a few times which he hadnt before.

 

[kirbyultra]

I would definitely separate then before she gets demanding and nippy then. Do that a few times until they are more confident abot themselves and each other. Then increase it back toward 20 min to see if she is better to him, OR, maybe he will like her better and groom her once he knows she won't be a threat to him.

 

[bluedimplett]

I tried the 15 min session, and well.... it was different.I think Bailey is bipolar. As soon as i put her in the tub with Zeus, she started to binky like crazy. i counted about 8-10 during the 15 mins. As if she was trying to show off or something.

Zeus? Seemed frightened by it, i dont think he has ever made a binky in his 6 months of life. After bailey stopped doing her binkies there was a quiet moment. Then they ignored each other. a few mintes later she went up to him and they were nose to nose... staring at each other. i timed it. they stared for two minutes without a beat. Bailey stepped away. I waited another minute before ending the session and as soon as she realized i was going to pick him up she attempted to nip him. *sighs*

 

[kirbyultra]

Wait, they are both young? How old? Are they fixed? Since you adopted him I assume Zeus is. Is Bailey spayed?

Binkying is strange, but not exactly bad. Bailey sure isn't stressed being in neutral territory. Nose to nose with nonaggression is good. Ignoring is good. She may have been upset that you interrupted by picking him up and took it out on him.

Did you bounce them around in the basket first? Taking a walk with them outside your home with a towel over to keep them from jumping out is maybe another way to throw her off her game. She seems too unfazed by the bathtub while the boy is new to everything. Poor kid seems pretty frightened...?

 

[bluedimplett]

kirbyultra wrote:

Wait, they are both young? How old? Are they fixed? Since you adopted him I assume Zeus is. Is Bailey spayed?

Binkying is strange, but not exactly bad. Bailey sure isn't stressed being in neutral territory. Nose to nose with nonaggression is good. Ignoring is good. She may have been upset that you interrupted by picking him up and took it out on him.

Did you bounce them around in the basket first? Taking a walk with them outside your home with a towel over to keep them from jumping out is maybe another way to throw her off her game. She seems too unfazed by the bathtub while the boy is new to everything. Poor kid seems pretty frightened...?

Zeus is approx 6 months old and i adopted him a little over a week ago. Bailey is 7 months old, i've had her since she was 2 months. Bailey has been spayed for a little over a month and the shelter told me that zeus had been neutured for two weeks when i got him.

Bailey isn't stressed at all No matter what i do it doesn't faze her, but with him he just gets more scared. Ya know, she used to be scared when i would pick her up, she would whimper, now she doesnt. She no longer cares if i pick her up.

Last night i didn't bounce them mainly because he is so scared already. So, how do i do the walk? wrap them up both together in the towel and hold them on a walk?

Also, i feel like Zeus may be losing some trust with me. So after the session i decided to spend one on one time with him and i think it helped him, not sure if that would help with the bonding with bailey.

 

[kirbyultra]

Zeus has been through a lot in a short amt of time. From wherver he was to the shelter, getting neutered, going home with you, meeting Bailey... He is probably very cautious and protecting himself by sitting still and lashing out when he's done being picked on by her. Are they living next to each other so they can see and smell each other? That may help him acclimate. It is very important for him to trust you in the long term so definitely try bonding with him. It will set him more at ease.

Bailey may be reacting to his hormones still, btw. Males are still hormonal for a month post-neuter.

 

[kirbyultra]

Were you bouncing them around in a basket before? If so, put them both in the basket, put a towel lightly over them so they sit still and then just walk around with them to some new places they haven't been to for 15 or 20 min. When I did this with my pair, I went downstairs to the laundry room. Rolled them around in the laundry cart, so I didn't even carry them in my arms.

Car ride works too!

 

[elrohwen]

The early stages of my bond were very very similar to what you're describing. My boy also got fairly stressed out, while my girl seemed right at home in the bathtub and was interested in humping him. The laundry basket sessions helped so much - I would keep doing it. Your boy will get stressed, but that's kind of the point - he'll be ok.

I also found that you may lose some trust with one or both bunnies during bonding. I found that I bonded more with my new girl, but my boy backed off from me a little bit. You'll have time to rebuild their bonds with you after they're bonded together.

I think you're doing a good job - just stick with it. Also, when she asks for groomies, you can try petting both of them and forcing them to snuggle together. This is often a good way of positively ending the session. And don't be afraid to use the laundry basket mid session - when my girl got too humpy around the 15 minute mark, I would dump them back in the laundry basket for 2 minutes and then continue the session in the tub. It kind of knocked her out of her humping obsession.