Bonding not going so well ~ need some advice

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bellaterra214

Bellaterra214
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
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Location
Buena Park, CA
About a month ago, I adopted our third bunny Bino. I already had a male(Sebastian -Neutered)/female(Anya -Spayed) bonded pair and figured since i had the time and space, I would rescue one more.The first introduction went well until the humans stepped away. Then it was a fur massacre. My males squaring off and brutal war broke out. I separated them and built another pen side by side until I was able to get Bino in for a neuter. Took him in, they said he was still a little to young.

The next thirty days, it was cheap shots, after cheap shots through the fence at each other. Couldn't wait for the day he get neutered, hoping it would make all this aggression go away. Bino seemed to be making Seb and Anya bond even closer. now they are always touching each other in one form or another. literally nondetachable from one another. its really gross...haha...too much lovey dovey going on here.

After the neuter and enough time for hormones to subside, we started doing introductions again. Unfamiliar areas, petting them at the same time, everything and anything to get them to bond. Anything I do seems to be only creating a bigger problem between Seb/Anya :hug2: and Bino :rollseyes. All h*#l breaks out and there's enough fur on the floor to make the inside of a really nice warm glove. I now feel like I'm forcing them into trying these bonding sessions and I am creating more harm than good at this point.

The next option I am exploring is to get Bino his own girlfriend. That's right! FOUR RABBITS. Am I insane? But I hate watching Bino trying to get closer to the huddle of limbs I somewhat recognize as Seb and Anya and watching him get chased away and lunged at. Breaks my heart and I don't see him being able to wedge himself anywhere near them anytime soon.

Not sure what else I can try to do to get them to bond. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks.
 
I have to agree ^^ A threesome is a difficult feat -- especially with 2 males.

I don't think you're insane. Getting an already spayed girl for Bino would be a good idea. I'd be sure to go through a rescue, though, that helps you with the bonding. That way, if the chosen girl isn't working out, you can exchange her another.
 
And no you're not insane I have 4 myself. 2 dwarfs male and female both fixed. Holland lop male unfixed, who will be going in for a clip soon. And a 14 week old Flemish giant. The 2 dwarfs are bonded. The other 2 separate xpens :)
 
Curious did you get the first two and bond them or were they already bonded when you got them? I've read so much about bonding and I got the impression in the end that no one method works and every method is really dependent on the personality of rabbits in question.

I had a difficult time bonding just my two and almost gave up. This website http://www.wheekwheekthump.com really helped me reevaluate what I was doing and inspired me to give it one last go.
 
The dwarfs came together but not bonded. The female beat the male up all the time. I stress bonded them. In the bathtub and also a few car rides. Now they are inseparable
 
Now I'll probably never take the other 2 males and introduce them. I don't wanna break the dwarfs bonding. I may introduce the two boys when they get neutered :)
 
@FreezeNkody - Its funny because my normally lovey dovey bunny Sebastian has became this lunging and biting rabbit. Nothing I tried was working and I couldn't afford to lose anymore hair. I hate to see Bino alone. Sebastian and Anya are attached by the ears and Bino just sits on the sidelines.

I would definitely not do any bonding until all parties are neutered/spayed. I 100% back the idea of all pets being be neutered/spayed unless you are specifically planning on breeding. It improves their overall quality of life both socially and in the health department. I know that it is possible, but it makes bonding that much more easier. For example, Sebastian's primary and only focus before the neuter, was humping Anya as often and as much as she would allow(very embarrassing for all parties watching). Now he's more concerned with getting his eared cleaned. It's going to different for every situation. Learning how to read your rabbits will helping a great deal in the bonding processes.

@Blue eyes - Its been a very difficult time for all of us. These bonding sessions have stressed everyone out. I'm going to take a step back on the bonding and make some room adjustments. I looked into many of the bunny rescues in our area and I hate to say this, but they charge so much to rescue a bunny. I have no intentions of ever parting with any of my little ones~~ haha i've already drawn a line with the bf saying they were coming with me if we didn't work out. Looking at picking up a baby female. Will update soon.

@Troller - Sebastian and Anya I have had for about a year now. Bino about 3 months now. Seb and Anya's relationship was love at first sight. They didn't show as much PDA before Bino got here, but now they are always touching each other in one form or another. I'm all for love, but it's gotten to a gross stage. They eat together, they use the litter box together, they dig simultaneously at the same piece of carpet. its like Sebastian walking around with a mirror. But sometimes its like DUDE GET A ROOM! I say I hate it, but its extremely adorable to watch to the max. But Bino is run lone wolf right now. Going to find him a gf.

Btw, thank you so much for the reference. Have been reading a lot of the articles and the way its written made me go "oh omg, why didnt i think of that!!?!" Its very easy to read and understand. I kept putting myself right in the middle to break up fights, but the scare tactic makes sense. I mean I did the box in the car, the tub, the kitchen...nothing, but it was me, not the room. sigh~ still so much to learn. the learning is on ever ongoing never ending experience, which of course, I'm glad to do...most of the time.

Happy Holidays
 
@Blue eyes - Its been a very difficult time for all of us. These bonding sessions have stressed everyone out. I'm going to take a step back on the bonding and make some room adjustments. I looked into many of the bunny rescues in our area and I hate to say this, but they charge so much to rescue a bunny. I have no intentions of ever parting with any of my little ones~~ haha i've already drawn a line with the bf saying they were coming with me if we didn't work out. Looking at picking up a baby female. Will update soon.

One thing to bear in mind with the cost of a rescued bunny is that it includes the price of the spay or neuter. Usually, a rescued bunny ends up being far cheaper than any other rabbit once you factor in the vet costs that will be needed down the road. Spays are especially expensive -- I've seen them for as much as $250. You might want to check the cost of spays in your area before deciding on going with a baby and then spaying her. It may very well cost you much more.

If you are looking for a bunny to bond with another, the other advantage of the rescue is that you can usually exchange one bun that isn't bonding for another. This way a successful bond is pretty much ensured.
 
I'm very fortunate to be living in Orange County, Southern California. Everything and anything is 10 mins away and normally have great prices. Pro Fix Pet is the neuter/spay clinic that I have taken all three of my little ones. Awesome staff, great clean locations and knowledgeable staff. I have not had a single complication and issues. They know the importance of a neuter/spay and take care of the animals as if they were their own. I couldn't ask for better.

Surgery Center Prices

DOGS
Under 50 pounds $75
50-100 pounds $100
Over 100 pounds and giant breed dogs (Great Dane, Great Pyrenees, Mastiff, Newfoundland, St. Bernard) $150
CATS
Male cats $50
Female cats $75 (includes in-heat charges)
RABBITS
Male rabbits $50
Female rabbits $80

There are other options available to Orange County residences. Please contact me privately for those details if you live in Orange County and are looking into getting a neuter/spay.

I am also a firm believer that pets are just like children. They are going to have to go to the hospital and need as much care and attention as any other pet. Being able to afford the proper care is important and rabbits tend to be more on the pricey side, let's not forget time consuming (so i'm finding). Hay, pellets, toys, hospital care, fresh vegetables. I even believed rabbits would be easier than having a dog or cat, but am finding its all the same if not more. Making the decision to bring a pet into your home should never be taken lightly and making sure you have the resources available to properly take care the pet for so many years very important. It's a commitment that should never be broken. I do understand everyone situation is different and situations change, but definitely stop to think first.
Happy Holidays!
 
Spay and Neuter of everyone involved will make things go far more smoothly.

Typically, the easiest bond is male w female, followed by female/female, and then male/male.

Trios can be very hard to establish, and are prone to breaking. Quads are even more challenging.

You are in the same position I was in: one male/female bond, and one lone male.
After a number of minor fights and one major fight, the males disliked eachother too intensely to make bonding worthwhile.

If you really want a 4th rabbit (female), I would suggest that you take the lone male on a series of bunny dates in your area to find a FEMALE that works well with him. Ensure there is mutual interest before committing to the 4th rabbit though... last you need is 2 singles and a pair, haha.
 
I had a difficult time bonding just my two and almost gave up. This website http://www.wheekwheekthump.com really helped me reevaluate what I was doing and inspired me to give it one last go.

I'd never heard of that site until you linked it... I've looked through pretty much all of it now, though! Excellent site with a lot of very good bunny info - the various bonding articles, in particular, shine new light on an old topic. While I've only repaired a rabbit bond (since my girls were raised together as babies), many of Sandra's "unconventional" bonding tactics are ones I'd discovered on my own while attempting to bond sugar gliders to each other or to myself (something I've done many times now).

I've linked to wheekwheekthump a number of times since you introduced me to it, and not just for bonding whatnot! The page on poop that's linked to in one of the articles is, indeed, the best I've seen for helping people figure out what their bunny's poop is trying to tell them... and the page on Dr. Dana Krempels is a great resource for anyone with a bunny whose health issues are stumping their regular vet.

I am also a firm believer that pets are just like children. They are going to have to go to the hospital and need as much care and attention as any other pet. Being able to afford the proper care is important and rabbits tend to be more on the pricey side, let's not forget time consuming (so i'm finding)....
Making the decision to bring a pet into your home should never be taken lightly and making sure you have the resources available to properly take care the pet for so many years very important. It's a commitment that should never be broken. I do understand everyone situation is different and situations change, but definitely stop to think first.

If everyone who was considering a pet shared your mindset, I imagine animal shelters would be nearly empty and that there would be far less of them. Sadly, the overabundance of unwanted pets has become an epidemic in our day and age because too many people don't view pets as a lifetime commitment and/or see them as "disposable".

The vast majority of animals who end up at shelters are there because of failure to spay/neuter or because someone wanted an easy way out. The pee-spraying ex-Easter bunny who was surrendered when simple neutering could have made his behavior "acceptable"... the destructive dog who misbehaved and was out-of-control because no one had even *attempted* to train it... the cat who was wantonly tossed outdoors even though she wasn't spayed and came home pregnant...

Granted, there are inevitably some people whose situation changes so drastically that they can hardly afford (or outright can't afford) to care for themselves/their human family and feel they're just not capable of providing their pet(s) with proper care and medical attention - in these cases, it's completely understandable (and forgivable) that someone might turn their animal(s) over to a shelter because they do so out of concern for the animal rather than selfish reasons.

In my opinion, adopting a pet is like choosing to marry someone or to bring a child into this world - in any of those situations, you're supposed to be *committing* to that other life "until death do we part." Extenuating circumstances can happen, but they certainly shouldn't be the norm. Does a bunny depend on you for things like food, shelter, attention, mental stimulation/toys and medical attention any less than a child? No. While raising a child is, of course, much more challenging and time consuming, the basic tenets are the same - both pets and kids need to be looked after and have their needs met. It baffles me that people who would NEVER dump a kid on the streets to fend for themselves sometimes do just that to a domesticated animal, despite it being a near-certain death sentence for the animal.

I would suggest that you take the lone male on a series of bunny dates in your area to find a FEMALE that works well with him.

It's worth noting that one of the bonding articles on wheekwheekthump strives to debunk the myth that M/F bonds are best/easiest. I do think there are cases where opposite-sex bonds are easier - my female glider, Hurricane, outright HATES any other female that comes into the house on sight/smell. However, she did eventually come around with Tabitha to the point that they got along well and I'm hopeful she'll also open up to Abby so that I can eventually form a quad when I retire Lemmy and Abigail from breeding and have Lemmy neutered - I know from experience that her hatred towards other females CAN be overcome. Overall, I agree that gender is less important than personality.

I have two female bunnies who were raised together from the time that they were 7 & 8 weeks old (Nala is one week younger). While I couldn't have explained at the time what I was doing, I've come to realize in retrospect that I carefully, intuitively selected two very different rabbits. I didn't even know if I was going to be bringing home one or two bunnies, lol.

I really liked the uniqueness of lionheads, so I looked at the female lionheads first. I *instantly* pointed to Nala as the one I'd like to meet. In addition to being cute as could be, she seemed very ballsy, outgoing and adventurous. I honestly felt as though I was "commanded" to choose her... which isn't surprising now that I've realized that Nala often sends telepathic commands to Gaz, the cats and both of us humans, lol. After the breeder took her out for me to hold, I never even considered putting her back with her siblings - I was absolutely taking her home with me. I kept looking, though, both to be thorough and because I was very open to the idea of getting a pair. Not wanting to have to worry about "oops" babies or keeping my bunnies separate for the first few months, I stuck with looking at females.

When I looked at the Holland lop females, I already had Nala picked and was going for something "different" - not just in looks, but in personality as well. I picked out a shy little wallflower to hold. Both bunnies appealed to me because I saw aspects of myself in them, but I saw something very different in Gazzles than what I saw in Nala. The breeder held Nala for me; I held Gaz... she let me continue browsing for a bit longer, but I really wasn't looking so much as just admiring the cuteness. Something about the duality of the Nala/Gaz combination just seemed meant to be.

Their bond has been upset twice, the first time happening right after their spays (I actually had to separate them for most of the recovery period). Both times, the problem was eventually traced back to Gaz (seemingly arbitrarily) getting it in her head that she didn't want to be the submissive bunny any more and attempting to hump Nala... which didn't go over well with Nala, to say the least. Both times, working with them on neutral territory restored the bond.

Hurricane was a solo glider for a few months; I had planned for Lemmy and Tabitha's first joey to become her cage mate, assuming she continued to cope well with living alone. Unfortunately, at the start of May, she abruptly became very irritable and was aggressive towards me in a way I'd never seen before. There was no medical reason for the behavioral changes and I suspected she was acting out from loneliness, so I promptly set up an appointment to get a cage-mate for her. I really knew my girly, and I picked out a submissive (neutered) male who I believed would mesh well with her "alpha glider" personality.

I skipped the usual 30-day quarantine after the initial health check because Hobbes came from a reputable breeder I'd worked with twice before and I felt that the inherent risks of Hurricane's deteriorating mental health outweighed the potential benefits of quarantining. She and Hobbes took to each other so instantaneously that they moved in together (into HER cage, no less) on day ONE... circumventing an intro/bonding process that normally takes a month or more.

Having dealt with M/M (one neutered/one not; unlike bunnies, that's considered safe as long as only one male is intact), F/F and M/F (with both neutered and unneutered males) glider interactions, I've found that personality plays far more of a role than gender... I see no reason why bunnies would be any different.
 
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