Bladder Sludge
- Thread starter billinjax
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That's true but it takes time to do that when you're in the middle of a crises
Is he peeing at all??
Is he peeing at all??
probably ..poor little guy 
if Jack is only grinding when you are petting it is probably not pain ...maybe just relief after being not very comfortable and then to get pets.
I have to go to bed ...
Good Luck and keep us up-dated on what happens tomorrow..
you should get some rest also.......
I have to go to bed ...
Good Luck and keep us up-dated on what happens tomorrow..
you should get some rest also.......
billinjax wrote:
After the flush I tried and tried to get her drink lots of water but she didn't I started to worry and was about to go back to the vet but by the time the appointment came I realized Madison was peeing pooping and cuddling with the other bun instead of hiding in her house. And the pee was clear.
I am not sure exactly but it was a procedure requiring anesthesia. I am pretty sure it was drained. I will ask the vet. The vet made it sound like it was no big.. like a nail trimming so i was relieved.The recovery time was 2 days until she was back to normal.
After the flush I tried and tried to get her drink lots of water but she didn't I started to worry and was about to go back to the vet but by the time the appointment came I realized Madison was peeing pooping and cuddling with the other bun instead of hiding in her house. And the pee was clear.
Crap I just spent bunch of time editing that last post and it wouldn't take it.. too much time passed.
The recovery time was approx 2 days. I am not sure of exact procedure but it was manually drained. I'll ask the vet ..
The vet made it sound like no big deal.. and the follow up was simply rub calendula (not sure of spelling) on pea scald area, explained a diet change may help prevent this.
The recovery time was approx 2 days. I am not sure of exact procedure but it was manually drained. I'll ask the vet ..
The vet made it sound like no big deal.. and the follow up was simply rub calendula (not sure of spelling) on pea scald area, explained a diet change may help prevent this.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Sorry I wasn't on all weekend. You've gotten a lot of good advice. I agree that a lot of fluid will be the best thing to help in this case.
Sometimes, diet isn't very well correlated with this problem. Rabbits on low calcium diets will even break down their own bones to excrete calcium in the urine. It seems to be a metabolic disorder in the way that their bodies deal with calcium, and it seems that it can set on later in life, apparently without warning. So limiting the calcium intake may not do a lot.
I agree that he has too many pellets. Adult house rabbits should get no more than 1/4c per 5lb of bunny a day. They should eat it all, and should be hungry and excited when it's time to feed them pellets again. They also should be timothy-hay based pellets, not alfalfa-based.
The vet care so far sounds pretty good. It's good that you have annual blood work on Jack. That will be important in dealing with bladder sludge, especially if it doesn't go away. Excess calcium excretion can really take a toll on the kidneys.
So, what do I recommend? Make sure there isn't an underlying UTI causing the sludge. Learn how to do sub-q fluids at home so that you can help in an emergency. Meloxicam is a good anti-inflammatory pain drug, but it can be contra-indicated in urinary tract issues, because it can cause kidney damage if given for a long time (>4 days), especially if the rabbit is dehydrated. Other pain relievers for rabbits that don't cause as much kidney damage are narcotics: buprenorphine and tramadol. However, buprenorphine can lessen the rabbit's awareness (ie it gets them high) and cause gut slowdown so it's not the greatest. That's something you can discuss with your vet if long-term pain care will be needed for him. A member here (myheart) with a rabbit with kidney issues has her on tramadol long-term.
Good luck...
Sometimes, diet isn't very well correlated with this problem. Rabbits on low calcium diets will even break down their own bones to excrete calcium in the urine. It seems to be a metabolic disorder in the way that their bodies deal with calcium, and it seems that it can set on later in life, apparently without warning. So limiting the calcium intake may not do a lot.
I agree that he has too many pellets. Adult house rabbits should get no more than 1/4c per 5lb of bunny a day. They should eat it all, and should be hungry and excited when it's time to feed them pellets again. They also should be timothy-hay based pellets, not alfalfa-based.
The vet care so far sounds pretty good. It's good that you have annual blood work on Jack. That will be important in dealing with bladder sludge, especially if it doesn't go away. Excess calcium excretion can really take a toll on the kidneys.
So, what do I recommend? Make sure there isn't an underlying UTI causing the sludge. Learn how to do sub-q fluids at home so that you can help in an emergency. Meloxicam is a good anti-inflammatory pain drug, but it can be contra-indicated in urinary tract issues, because it can cause kidney damage if given for a long time (>4 days), especially if the rabbit is dehydrated. Other pain relievers for rabbits that don't cause as much kidney damage are narcotics: buprenorphine and tramadol. However, buprenorphine can lessen the rabbit's awareness (ie it gets them high) and cause gut slowdown so it's not the greatest. That's something you can discuss with your vet if long-term pain care will be needed for him. A member here (myheart) with a rabbit with kidney issues has her on tramadol long-term.
Good luck...
Amy27
Task Force
Poor Jack. It sounds like you got a lot of good information at the vets and you have a good plan. Did they use anesthesia to do the x-rays today? My bun never gets anesthesia for the bladder x-rays. Though I imagine that would depend on the bunny and how well they will lay still.
How did Jack do when you brought him home? I understand being concern that the vet trips will upset him and make him eat less. My bun gets upset going to the vet but as soon as she is home she is fine and eats normally. Hopefully Jack will be happy when he gets home and it won't affect his eating.
I used Metacam for awhile during Chase's episodes. It so far has not appeared to have caused any kidney damage. But Chase was also getting sub q's while using it to make sure she was hydrated.
I will keep my fingers crossed that the x-rays come back good. Keep us updated.
How did Jack do when you brought him home? I understand being concern that the vet trips will upset him and make him eat less. My bun gets upset going to the vet but as soon as she is home she is fine and eats normally. Hopefully Jack will be happy when he gets home and it won't affect his eating.
I used Metacam for awhile during Chase's episodes. It so far has not appeared to have caused any kidney damage. But Chase was also getting sub q's while using it to make sure she was hydrated.
I will keep my fingers crossed that the x-rays come back good. Keep us updated.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
This is a good article in which we discussed a lot of different pain medicine and when it's good to use. One of our wonderful experts, Randy (ra7751), has a lot of experience with this, but is not around at the moment due to work overload. I got the info about not using metacam for >4 days from him in this post. All of the comments on this post are helpful and from people with a great deal of experience and veterinary know-how as well.
edit: Metacam (meloxicam) was developed for long-term treatment of arthritis-type pain in dogs. However, it can be damaging to the liver and kidneys, like all NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), so that's why Randy says you shouldn't use it long-term.
edit2: forgot to post the link http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=43773&forum_id=16
edit: Metacam (meloxicam) was developed for long-term treatment of arthritis-type pain in dogs. However, it can be damaging to the liver and kidneys, like all NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs), so that's why Randy says you shouldn't use it long-term.
edit2: forgot to post the link http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=43773&forum_id=16
aurora369
Well-Known Member
Personally, I would focus more on keeping him hydrated and not worry so much about critical care. And if I was to feed critical care, I would have watered down quite a bit.
A well hydrated bunny can go for quite a while (some people have had up to a week) with out eating and be fine.
If he's enjoying the pedialyte, then continue to give it to him. Make sure some of his favourite foods are within easy reach for him, like some water soaked greens or nice fresh hay and pellets.
Once he's had a good does of hydration, let him do some relaxing and de-stressing. Try not to fuss over him too much right now so he can feel less stressed out.
--Dawn
A well hydrated bunny can go for quite a while (some people have had up to a week) with out eating and be fine.
If he's enjoying the pedialyte, then continue to give it to him. Make sure some of his favourite foods are within easy reach for him, like some water soaked greens or nice fresh hay and pellets.
Once he's had a good does of hydration, let him do some relaxing and de-stressing. Try not to fuss over him too much right now so he can feel less stressed out.
--Dawn
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
If he's eating something, I wouldn't stress him out with the critical care. As long as something is going in and something is coming out, he will probably start to feel better and eat more on his own.
If he's drinking fine, keep him on the Metacam for the time being. If he had kidney disease, it would have showed up on the CBC and they would have told you about it. If your vet wants him on it for a long time, mention that you've heard about kidney damage from long term use of NSAIDs, and they'll probably want to monitor his kidney and liver with blood tests every 3-4 months.
Here's more about metacam and kidney issues: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1752
He can have pedialyte as much as he wants, unless you see some gut slowdown. The sugar can make the gut slow down if he gets a ton of it. I wouldn't give him more than a half a liter a day.
If he's drinking fine, keep him on the Metacam for the time being. If he had kidney disease, it would have showed up on the CBC and they would have told you about it. If your vet wants him on it for a long time, mention that you've heard about kidney damage from long term use of NSAIDs, and they'll probably want to monitor his kidney and liver with blood tests every 3-4 months.
Here's more about metacam and kidney issues: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1752
He can have pedialyte as much as he wants, unless you see some gut slowdown. The sugar can make the gut slow down if he gets a ton of it. I wouldn't give him more than a half a liter a day.
If you've got the big syringe you can just syringe it onto your finger and then put it in his mouth
or you can buy it in little gel tubes or in a powder form
if you use powder you can mix it with a piece of banana ( the powder form is the most economical)
I can buy it at Petco but always look at the label on all the packages and check the expiration date.
http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/1401-BeneBac-Pet-Gel-Powder.aspx
or you can buy it in little gel tubes or in a powder form
if you use powder you can mix it with a piece of banana ( the powder form is the most economical)
I can buy it at Petco but always look at the label on all the packages and check the expiration date.
http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/1401-BeneBac-Pet-Gel-Powder.aspx
I don't think that the metacam would cause that effect so quickly ; it is OK as along as he has enough fluids in him
is he whimpering at all tonight ? :?
is he whimpering at all tonight ? :?
