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i sort of know as well what you mean. im so colpicated i dont understand my self.. but i know where you are coming from.
say what you said might/could happen etc.. so.. i would be sad and tearful. i have gotten over the deaths of 4 rabbits. in a quickish time. it does not stop me from missing them.
also, pets... they have bonded. you know them, attached.
vut say the meat ones. hey they are taken care of. petted and stuff, exercise etc. but you would not mind to much if it was killed and ated
 
peppa and georgie wrote:
I dont eat meat but i see no problem in other people eating meat that is up to them, it is only my choice not to.
I dont think people should feel guilty either, i get more harrasment from people when i say i am vegetarian than meat eaters seem to as everyone assumes i am going to attack their choice and starts going on about how i shouldnt wear leather shoes if i dont eat meat etc.
Everyone is entitled to their choice, i was just surprised to hear about it in the context of the pet chat, one minute we were merrily chatting about our cats and rabbits health next someone is going on about how they are going to breed rabbits to feed to their cats to make them more healthy, and how they currently give the cats squirrel carcus, and i was just a bit shocked as everyone was like hey yeh cool.
I wasnt expecting it in that environment if you get me.
Personally speaking i dont think i could cuddle one bun in my living room and say hi to the others knowing i was going to chop them up for the cat to eat, but that is just me, i would find it hard to look them in the eye. I have no idea about how rabbits are humanely killed, and i can see that it is mainly important that they have a happy and healthy life, although it would be one cut short x
Like if you left someone else in charge and instructed them to do the deed and kill the rabbits for the cat to eat, you would be horrified if they went to the wrong cage and got your pet but to an unrelated person they would not see the difference and would not have done anything wrong xx I am probably not making any sense now but i know what i mean.

I perfectly understand what you are saying. AndI respect the choices you have made for yourself, and the fact that you respect others.

The bottom line here is the care given to the rabbit. And if anyone comes here looking for help and advice, we will try to help them regardless of their intent for the rabbit. Everyone benefits from healthier rabbits, especially the rabbits.
 
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:


You have to realize, though, that rabbits are not farmed as commonly as poultry. Many and most breeders who breed for market rabbits are doing so for their own private use or for the local market. They are not as in demand as poultry, which is internationally the #1 imported and exported meat. The treatment of poultry is not so much even determined by a mind on money, but rather just trying to feed the demand for it! That doesn't justify bad treatment, but my point is...

Rabbits are not farmed in the same way as poultry. Even large rabbitries are generally very humane in their treatment, though I'm sure there are inhumane ones, just like anything. Genetically, rabbits are more sound and able to live comfortably in wire cages so as long as they get a proper diet and are processed humanely, they are hardly in the same uncomfort as poultry is in the U.S.;)

Beyond that, rabbit breeders are generally very knowledgable about the care of rabbits. Very few vets know as much as a reputable breeder does, so rabbits are cared for very well inthat breeding situation. In fact, in most cases, rabbit breeders try to avoid vets becausethey're so aware of how ignorant a lot ofvets are to proper care of rabbits.:pSo yes, humane treatment is possible...and even common in the rabbit world.

I agree with OakRidge. Especially the part about rabbit breeders treating their rabbts with home (and humane) remedies. I've done it before, with the help of my 4-H leader who is a great breeder; and the treated rabbits have come out of it healthy; possibly a lot easier than if a vet had given the treatment, etc. She knows a lot of stuff. She breeds & raises rabbits for meat too.

While I don't tell breeders who breed for meat that it's wrong, I certainly wouldn't ever do it myself, nor will I ever eat rabbit as long as I own/breed them. Now, if I had a cow, I would probably still eat cow, but I don't know if that would change when I actually owned one or not.
The point is, I see cows as food, and pets. I don't see rabbits as food. I just see them as pets. And while I know rabbits were use for meat for their first purposes, and so were all other animals, I just wouldn't be able to eat rabbit.

Emily
 
I don't really like rabbit it's a bit too tough, but a couple people have put me on to some good recipes lately.


(Comments here Removed by Mod....)



We're an apex predator... Nothing wrong with wanting to kill and eat those things below us.
 
I have deleted comments that are insulting to others and the personal choices that they have made. There is no need for deliberate baiting and trolling for arguments - This has remained a legitimate and educational discussion up until now.
 
I can see and understand that the subject of rabbits for meat is a very sensitive one. I would like to say that many people who raise rabbits for food (I am not referring to commercial breeders) also have rabbits for pets. The rabbits that are raised for food are usually very well cared for, they are given good food and loving attention very similar to a pet rabbit- just because an animal will serve the purpose of providing sustenance of another does not make them less worthy of quality of life.
I have personally met more people whose rabbits that are being raised for meat are treated better than many pet rabbits. I think education is critical when you own animals- no matter what species or what purpose they serve.


 
Happi Bun wrote:
Since this thread is about education...

Rabbit's are not farmed as commonly as poultry, really? Because each year over 2 million are killed in slaughter houses in the US. They are also not protected by the humane methods of slaughter act.

http://www.rabbitproduction.com/

(Note: This video does NOT show rabbits being processed or killed, just how they are kept in one US mill)


Erika, according to the US Dept. of Agriculture, 9.1 billion chickens are slaughtered annually, not even counting other birds.

Here's that report: http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/PoulSlauSu/PoulSlauSu-02-25-2009.pdf

So no, rabbits are not farmed as commonly as poultry.

As for the video, it is (as you said) of a single mill. I promise you, if I were attempting to get people's attention, I would pick the filthiest, most inhumane operation I could find to tape... certainly got my attention.
I can't think of very many people who would not meet caging and hygiene standards in their housing operations.

However, I do agree strongly that all processing of commercial animals must be standardized and performed using federal guidelines that have been designed by organizations with a mind to humane dispatch.

This will help ensure that those persons who are not treating their stock animals properly will be subject to investigation and penalty.

All the more reason to write your congress representative. I think you could really support humane legislation with your passionate letters!:)


 
I should have worded it better. Obviously Poultry are slaughtered far more because of the HUGE demand, however, I was getting the impression reading others posts that rabbit's being raised as meat is some small operation. It's not. Also, the fact they are slaughtered less than Poultry seems irrelevant, the fact Poultry are allowed to be kept in horrible, cramped conditions is.

With rabbits being classed as poultry and not protected under the humane methods of slaughter act, I find it hard to believe other slaughter houses are regulated and maintained much better. Remember, that video was taken from one of the leading rabbit meat farms in CA. If the people supposed to be keeping an eye on them obviously weren't doing their jobs, what makes you think they are doing better at other places?

Perhaps I just have far less faith in mankind and their ability to pick humane treatment over money and convenience.
 
Oh believe me, I will be.
happy0169.gif
 
Happi Bun wrote:
I should have worded it better. Obviously Poultry are slaughtered far more because of the HUGE demand, however, I was getting the impression reading others posts that rabbit's being raised as meat is some small operation. It's not. Also, the fact they are slaughtered less than Poultry seems irrelevant, the fact Poultry are allowed to be kept in horrible, cramped conditions is.

With rabbits being classed as poultry and not protected under the humane methods of slaughter act, I find it hard to believe other slaughter houses are regulated and maintained much better. Remember, that video was taken from one of the leading rabbit meat farms in CA. If the people supposed to be keeping an eye on them obviously weren't doing their jobs, what makes you think they are doing better at other places?

Perhaps I just have far less faith in mankind and their ability to pick humane treatment over money and convenience.

First of all, I just have to say that humane treatment is not picked over money or convenience. In the poultry industry, there is so much demand that farmers simply cannot meet the demand by raising chickens in big grass fields with tons of room to run and play. It's not that they're more interested in money, it's that they would not be making money at all, they're making so little already. So the only way to control that is to spay and neuter people, basically. And that's a whole other issue.:pI just want to make it clear, though, that people are not maliciously choosing small living quarters as a convenience for themselves, there is really no other choice.

"I was getting the impression reading others posts that rabbit's being raised as meat is some small operation. It's not."

Secondly, meat rabbits ARE a small operation, on the whole. There are a number of commercial rabbitries though. Again, there have to be to meet demand. But a larger number of market rabbits are privately raised and owned for personal consumption. As made obvious by now, not as many people consume rabbit so the market for them is not as huge. And because the industry is so small, rabbit costs a lot to eat unless you raise it yourself. So in that sense, the industry does help a lot of rabbits to have a better life.

Those who choose to raise their own market rabbits often raise them on the ground in colonies, which gives them some room to roam and grass to eat. Not all do, but my point is just that meat rabbits can hardly be classified in the same context as poultry. They're raised a lot differently, marketed a lot differently, etc.

The whole reason the demand for chicken is so huge is because the meat is so inexpensive. Rabbit is not.:)
 
OakRidgeRabbits wrot
First of all, I just have to say that humane treatment is not picked over money or convenience. In the poultry industry, there is so much demand that farmers simply cannot meet the demand by raising chickens in big grass fields with tons of room to run and play. It's not that they're more interested in money, it's that they would not be making money at all, they're making so little already.



The whole reason the demand for chicken is so huge is because the meat is so inexpensive. Rabbit is not.:)
If chickens were raised in grassy fields, as I personally believe they should be, the meat would be more expensive, so there would be less demand. Problem solved.


I am not a vegetarian, but I do try to eat meat only one or two meals a week. I believe this is healthier for my body, as well as the planet. There are plant-based protein sources, but on the whole, Americans consume way more protein than is necessary. We somehow have this notion that we have to have protein at every meal, or we'll become unhealthy, which is not true at all. There is no reason animals should be treated inhumanely, just so people can get cheap food.
I was raised eating meat, and I think it tastes good. I feel guilty every time I eat it, though, so I try to keep my consumption at a minimum. My husband is a devoted meat-eater, so it's often difficult in my house.

I am also trying not to buy anything made of leather. I think it's gross to wear or sit on the skin of a dead animal. Yuck. Plus, I think it smells disgusting.

I am very particular about the meat I do eat. I will eat ground beef, steak, bacon, chicken or turkey breast, and an occasional bit of ham. I do like many kinds of fish.
Growing up, I lived with my grandparents, and my grandpa would often go hunting. I was once given a rabbit tail to play with, and was delighted until my mom told me what it was. I threw up. I never liked the flavor of any wild game, including rabbit, duck, goose, pigeon, quail, pheasant, and deer. I have memories of my grandpa cleaning game in the garage or the back yard. I will never eat any of those animals again, I would prefer to go hungry.
To me, rabbits are pets, never food. I will not patronize restaurants that serve rabbit. I do realize that some people view rabbits as food, just as some people view cats, dogs, guinea pigs, etc. as food. But I do not.

I get really upset when people criticize my choice to not eat much meat. I don't go around insulting people for their food choices, even if I don't personally approve of their choices. I don't understand why meat-eaters feel so threatened and angry by people who choose not to eat meat. I am not infringing on anyone else's rights, I am not unpatriotic, I just don't eat a lot of meat.
 
If chickens were raised in grassy fields, as I personally believe they should be, the meat would be more expensive, so there would be less demand. Problem solved.

Humans do need some protein in their diets and as omnivores, meat is good for us. There isn't really any denying that. So just the fact that there are so many people and chicken is cheap...there will be demand for it. What seems like a quick fix is not practical, based not only on the current state of the economy but also on the amount of people who consume meat. I don't think any of us want animals to be treated inhumanely, but there is no quick fix.

I get really upset when people criticize my choice to not eat much meat. I don't go around insulting people for their food choices, even if I don't personally approve of their choices. I don't understand why meat-eaters feel so threatened and angry by people who choose not to eat meat. I am not infringing on anyone else's rights, I am not unpatriotic, I just don't eat a lot of meat.

I'm confused as to where you got the idea that others were criticizing you for your choice. I am indifferent as to people's choices- one may choose whether or not to eat meat for themselves, that's none of my business. It was my understanding that this topic was not about those who choose to eat meat and those who do not. The topic was based around a discussion of the way meat animals are raised and culled. I think the general population is misinformed about some areas of popular agriculture. I don't blame anyone for this because the media really warps the truth around, as was already mentioned about the PETA video. My goal was to educate others on why things happened the way they do. Many people seem to believe that those involved in agriculture are cruel and heartless and that they choose money over the animal's comfort. In reality, farmers make so little that they have no other choice when trying to meet demands. I just wanted to help people understand that it is not an individual's choice about how animals are treated, there are things a lot bigger than us that determine that.:)
 
I should rephrase the point:

Corporations are driven to process chicken at a rate to meet consumer demand, at a price that allows them to stay in business. Without a cheap supply of protein, we can't sustain the North American population readily.

Sadly, a veg diet is inaccessible for many poorer families:

> Too few people are willing to do the physical labour to harvest veg, thus driving the price per worker up

> Too little arable land left... many cities are sitting on the best land available.

> Fields are in high-value cereal and cash crops. Corn is now being fed to cows and processed to make oil, rather than fed to people (cause we're too "special" and too rich to eat a corn based diet).

Effectively, the only thing that will decrease consumption of meat is a widespread cultural change.
If demand for poultry is lessened, there is less pressure to engage in mass production.
If people were willing to pay an appropriate price for their veg and meat, more independant farmers would be in business.

Support your local farmer's markets. Support the butcher. Support the baker. That's the best way to make independent farming sustainable; they are the only ones who can have gallivanting chickens :). The more you support the farmers, the more ideal the situation of their livestock.

People who consume meat regularly tend to feel very harassed by "holier than thou" attitudes displayed by some vegetarians. It's always a challenging situation.

Blame it partly on North American culture, which has been so blessed for so long with an abundance of food!

As food grows more scarce in the world, a more vegetarian diet will become necessary. Vast droughts will sweep across continents, and vegetable crops will fail; starvation will ensue. Overpopulation is not a pretty future.

(Personally, I struggle deeply with the consumption of fish. The oceans are almost empty... I try very hard not to eat any fish that is wild-caught. Inland aquaculture only.)
 
NorthernAutumn wrote:
Support your local farmer's markets. Support the butcher. Support the baker. That's the best way to make independent farming sustainable; they are the only ones who can have gallivanting chickens :). The more you support the farmers, the more ideal the situation of their livestock.
Agreed! Great point!:)

I also love the picture in my mind of gallivanting chickens. LOL!
 
I agree completely with supporting your local farmers markets and butchers. A discussion was being held on a Guinea Pig Forum about ways to still enjoy meat without supporting the cruel treatment animals face in factory farms. One solution was buying meat from your local butcher and even asking to visit which farm their meat comes from if you aren't completely satisfied they are being kept humanely.

These days you can even buy meat at your grocery store that is certified humane. If you are interested in learning more, here is their website.

http://www.certifiedhumane.org/

I would like to point out the video I posted is not PETA related, I do not agree with most of things PETA does. While I'm sure they wanted to show the worst conditions possibly, I don't believe that should make the video have less meaning.

my point is just that meat rabbits can hardly be classified in the same context as poultry. They're raised a lot differently, marketed a lot differently, etc
In numbers, no. The USDA sure seems to think they are similar to poultry since they have them listed as such. There is no regulation on how they are slaughtered or the methods used because (since they are listed as poultry) they are not protected under the humane methods of slaughter act. So forgive me in not believing claims that the rabbit meat industry is all about animal welfare.

I don't think any of us want animals to be treated inhumanely, but there is no quick fix.
Do you mean mankind in general or us here personally on RO? I honestly find it sad that "Humane methods of slaughter act" and "Animal welfare act" had to even be created. People have to have constant reminders that if they are not humane to the animals, their are consequences. Yet even with these acts in place, countless animals are abused, beaten and neglected everyday.

Through my work in volunteering and supporting animal rescues, I have been awakened to just how much malicious cruelty there is towards animals in this word.
 
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
Humans do need some protein in their diets and as omnivores, meat is good for us. There isn't really any denying that. So just the fact that there are so many people and chicken is cheap...there will be demand for it.


I didn't say we don't need any protein, I said we currently eat MUCH more than we need. I heard somewhere that Americans eat 3-4x what we actually need. There is an incredible hype about getting enough protein, but the fact is we get TOO MUCH.
Also, if chicken was more expensive, there would be less demand. I stand by my original point. Because we don't need to eat as much meat as we currently do, there really isn't a NEED for it to be as cheap as it's become. People used to spend a much larger portion of their incomes on food, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



I'm confused as to where you got the idea that others were criticizing you for your choice. I am indifferent as to people's choices- one may choose whether or not to eat meat for themselves, that's none of my business.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about this particular conversation, I wasn't clear about that. I have been criticized when I choose a vegetarian meal over one with meat. I have been told that I'm "dead inside," and I have been called unpatriotic. And I'm not even fully vegetarian.


In reality, farmers make so little that they have no other choice when trying to meet demands.

The farmers make so little because they are letting themselves be controlled by the big corporations that really run our food industry. Poultry farmers that don't conform strictly to the rules will be dropped by the corporation, but conforming to the rules involves huge monetary investments, and accepting tiny returns on their product.
It is a cycle that people have created by demanding cheap meat because they don't want to eat a lot of it without spending too much money.

It IS the individual's choice on how the animals are treated. If you don't like the way industrial chicken is raised, don't buy it. Pay the extra money for humanely raised meat. Just because things are the way they are doesn't meat they have to stay that way.
 

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