Badly infected toe, help!

[tolstoibunny]

I'm new to this forum and wanted to try if anyone can help.

My 5-year-old bunny Tolstoi got his nail almost ripped off. I don't know how it happened but by the time he was limping, the toe in his hind leg was badly infected. I took him to the vet's office and the vet tried to pull the nail out. It didn't come off so the vet cut the whole nail down and put some stuff in it in order to prevent it from bleeding. Tolstoi was also given some Metacam and Baytril and we were told to be in contact if things get worse. I have been cleaning the toe with iodine.

Now it's been five days since we've been to the vet's. I thought Tolstoi was getting a little bit better yesterday but now he doesn't want to put the foot down at all, even while resting. It's weekend and there aren't any rabbit savvy vets around at 300 km radius

I'm basically worried that the infection is reaching into his toe bone and the toe will have to be amputated. I'm also worried that Tolstoi's chronic pasteurella (?) sneezing will restart because of all this stress. He's eating and pooping fine, though.

Our nearby vet office will be opened on Monday and the vet is not that rabbit knowledgable. I wonder if he's ever amputated anything from a rabbit.

Sorry about this rambling. I just wanted to ask
- How fast can the bone get infected?
- If the bone gets infected... Are we in hurry to get the toe amputated or should we still continue to try to heal it with antibiotic?
- There was puss coming from the toe when we were at the vet's. Since Tolstoi has been home there's been no more puss. I suppose that could mean the puss is capsulated and doesn't come out by itself?

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

I don't know much about the matter, but this might help:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15813&forum_id=16

 

[tolstoibunny]

^Thank's but I already read that topic.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Don't know much either, but I'd contact James Waller here or Imbrium as they seem to have a handle on things.

 

[LakeCondo]

Have you looked at medirabbit.com?

One thing I wold suggest is getting the infection checked to see if it is bacterial, viral, or fungal. An antibiotic won't help if it's not a bacterial infection.

Is the vet you mention that you plan to go to Monday the same vet who clipped the nail & gave you the medicine? There is an advantage in continuity of care unless the care is bad. A rabbit's toes aren't really different from a dog's toes, so in this case I don't think a rabbit-savvy vet is that important in this case, because it doesn't involve the digestive system.

 

[JBun]

If there's puss it's most likely a bacterial infection. You could try putting a little antibiotic ointment on the wound. Just the plain ointment. Don't use the kind with with pain meds in it. Put a little right on the wound, then distract your rabbit with some food so he doesn't lick it off right away. If your rabbit will hold still, you can try feeling the toe for any heat or swelling. If he won't use the foot it could still be infected, but it also might just hurt from the toenail being damaged.

I have to disagree about using an inexperienced rabbit vet. They might do something or prescribe something that isn't good for rabbits because of their inexperience. If you can find a good rabbit vet of course that would be the best, but if you can't then just do the best you can.

 

[Imbrium]

if you feel your vet isn't truly rabbit-savvy, I would definitely look into finding another one... especially if amputation might be necessary, as bunnies and anesthesia are a tricky combination - you don't want a vet inexperienced with rabbits putting yours under!

I didn't see a thread specifically for Finland in our library of rabbit-savvy vets, but there are some links to world-wide listings here: http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=36134&forum_id=9

 

[tamsin]

I would definitely take it to the vet, even the none savvy one. There is usually a few vets at a practice so it's worth asking when you book if anyone has an interest in small animals and ask to see them.

You are right to be worry as the infection could potentially effect the bone. The vet should be able to clean it up and take a look, and possibly do a culture to see if a different antibiotic would attack it better.

If he does need it removed and they aren't experienced with rabbits but you know a vet that is, then you can ask them to consult with the rabbit - savvy vet by phone. Obviously an experienced vet 5 minutes away would be great, but sometimes you just have to take the best you can get. If you can find one willing to ask other vets and learn then that's a good starting point.

 

[tolstoibunny]

Thanks all! So the thing is that until Monday the only vet available is so bad that I wouldn't let him treat a stuffed animal. On Monday I can either take Tolstoi to a vet who's quite ok (the one we've already been to) or drive ~300 km to get him to a rabbit savvy vet. I'm not sure if it would be too much stress to drive him. I could stay over at my mom's but still.

There's no actual wound on the toe. I think the nail got halfway ripped off and the root is infected. The toe is swollen but not quite as much as before. The redness has also reduced a bit so I'd take that as a good sign. I think Tolstoi might be putting a little more weight on the foot today than yesterday but it may be because of the pain med.

A culture and sensitivity test would require the toe to be opened and the results would come back after about a week. I'm not sure if it'd be any help in this case? Not sure there's still puss.

 

[Tam O Ham]

This may be an entirely silly question and so forgive me if it is but - how does the toe smell? I'm new to rabbits but for my other small animals, a healing wound smells very different from one that's still infected. Abscesses for example had a very dead animal or rot smell to them when they were maturing but once they were open and the pus had drained so they were healing they smelled - well, not rotten. I'm not sure how patient your rabbit is with it but maybe a smell might help (though obviously a vet's opinion would still be needed on Monday)?

 

[tolstoibunny]

Well, I don't really smell anything, apart from the iodine! The toe doesn't look too bad but the fact that Tolstoi doesn't want to put weight on it bothers me. I still think he's doing a little bit better today than yesterday. I just wonder how soon should the toe heal? I've once had an infection on my toe and it healed really fast after getting an oral antibiotic.

 

[Tam O Ham]

I've never had a rabbit with an infection so the others can correct me but I'd tend to take the lack of infection smell as a positive sign. Of course I'd still see the vet on Monday and have it checked and all like everyone suggested. Could it be that the toenail is growing back or the healing skin around it getting pressed by the nail and making his foot tender? Lack of fever heat in it, lack of stink, better color, rabbit still acting normal with food/water/energy/etc - it sounds tentatively positive to me. I don't know how rabbit toes heal though so someone who has had a hurt bunny might be able to tell you better. It would make sense for something like a ripped toenail infection to take longer to heal than a clean surgical cut for a spay or neuter though.

 

[tamsin]

Glad it's looking better

I think I'd go for a check up with the local okish vet - it's more of a wound check which isn't bunny specific so they should be able to do that and that way no stress from the travelling.

If the vet thinks it needs more investigation/possibly removal, ask about their experience and whether they think it would be better to go to the other vet, as the other vet would need their notes anyway.

 

[tolstoibunny]

Bad luck with the local vet. He will be out of town whole week. He said we should continue with the antibiotic. I asked about the possibility that the infection will go into the bone and he said it could happen. He couldn't say how rapidly that could happen, though.

But I think Tolstoi might be getting better because he's now putting more weight on the foot and the toe is looking slightly better.

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

Great! I'm glad that the toe is getting better!

:yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping:

 

[tolstoibunny]

Thanks! Yes, Tolstoi is definitely getting better and I'm so happy!

 

[tolstoibunny]

We went to see our local vet again today because the toe is still very swollen. He took an x-ray and there was no sign of fracture. Vet said it would be ok to stop giving Baytril because he's already been two weeks on it and he doesn't want it to upset Tolstoi's stomach. So I'll continue to clean the toe but basically we just have to wait for the bad nail to "grow out". I really hope this works.

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

Yes I hope it works too. I'm praying for you and Tolstoi.

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

Bad luck with the local vet. He will be out of town whole week. He said we should continue with the antibiotic. I asked about the possibility that the infection will go into the bone and he said it could happen. He couldn't say how rapidly that could happen, though.

But I think Tolstoi might be getting better because he's now putting more weight on the foot and the toe is looking slightly better.

---might i inquire as to the treatment-procedure-,rx,s--radiograghs etc.(baytril dosages x daily)--sincerely-- james waller--i trust the foot is completely healed..??:X

 

[tolstoibunny]

I've got some good and bad news. The toe seems to be getting better, although very slowly because the toe is still swollen. The nail is growing and doesn't feel loose. Tolstoi is using the toe almost normally now.

The bad news is that Tolstoi started to sneeze again. I think I mentioned somewhere that Tolstoi had had chronic sneezing that had stopped some months before the toe accident. I think he must have some chronic infection that got worse from the antibiotic treatment. The thing is, a previously done culture and sensitivity test indicated he's got some bacteria that is not very susceptible to Baytril. And we got Baytril to treat the toe infection. I'm not sure if this is stupid logic but the sneezing did start after I quit giving Baytril. Perhaps Baytril killed the good nasal bacteria and not the bad. What do you think?

Antibiotics helped him very little (4 different types were tried!) so I don't think I should put him one yet another course just yet. Maybe he will get better when he's body recovers from the Baytril course and the toe infection. At least I really hope so!

Sorry James, I had not noticed your reply. X-ray didn't show any broken bones, only swelling. Tolstoi was given 0,32 ml Baytril 2 x day for about two weeks. Now it's been two weeks since I stopped giving Baytril and last week he started to have small sneezes. No discharge and he's otherwise just fine.