Baby's Health Problems

[Snuggys Mom]

Baby was at the vet's last week due to prolonged limping. Upon x-ray, the vet found a mass in her wrist joint and said it could be a number of things, one being cancer.

I found the following in our library section:

Joint abscesses are very painful and can occur in anyjoint of the body but are most typically found in the hock joint of thehind leg or the wrist joint of the fore leg. The owner may notice thebunny being reluctant to move or a tendency to ?shuffle? instead ofhop. In addition, the bunny may go off feed and become very lethargic.Upon presentation the rabbit will have severely swollen limb joints andoften have scabs and pus on their hocks and wrists. The most commonunderlying cause of a joint abscess is frequently a result of beinghoused on a wire surface, although some joint abscesses are a result ofbacteria getting into the blood stream and then settling out in one ormore of the aforementioned joints. The cause of the bacterial infectionof the blood is a result of a compromised immune system that stress,poor nutrition, and bad husbandry practices often induce. Treatment forthis type of abscess is very lengthy and may include, but is notlimited to systemic antibiotics, topical antiseptic treatment of theaffected joints, pain control, and, most importantly, correction of thepoor husbandry techniques. A bunny recovering from a leg joint abscesswill usually have severe joint damage which results in irreversible arthritis and may need to be placed on lifelong anti-arthritis medications.

Baby is not housed on wire, but there are other causes according to this info.If it is an abscess, at leastit's treatable and she wouldget to keep the leg.

The vet wants to do a biopsy.Carolyn suggested a needle aspiration first to check for abnormalities. I have a call in to the vet to ask about this.

Any thoughts/suggestions/info would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Carolyn]

Make sure it's not infected.

EDITED: The needle aspiration will be able to tell you aboutabnormalities such as inflammatory, cancer, infectious or suspiciouscells.

Also ask about fluid in the joint.


* * * * * *

 

[Carolyn]

P.S.



As I noted to you prior, too, Laura, if it shows inflammation anotheroption would be steroids (not to be given with metacam).Either an injection of dexamethasone or oral prednisone.

 

[pamnock]

Interesting that you should bring thisup. We've been dealing with this traumatic situation withMatthew's Belgian Hare, Heart. A friend had mentioned thatthere is a similar condition in goats.

Heart has always been on a solid floor. A number of monthsago, she began having swelling and pain in the joints and was also"shuffling". The condition has effected both rear feet andone front foot. In her case, the condition is more likely dueto genetics due to the fact that we maintain good sanitation andnutrition practices.

Unfortunately, in Heart's case, necrosis occured throughout much of thetissue, resulting in exposed bones in her legs/feet. Throughstrict supportive care, we appear to have the situation under control.

We flush the wounds and keep her legs wrapped in gauze and vetwrap. Once the infection was under control, I found "wonderdust" to be effective in controlling inflammation in thearea. The vet was reluctant to put her on any antibiotics andthe condition will likely remain chronic. He did however,prescribe topical Baytril. We do occasionally give aspirinfor pain,but this can increase bleeding, so I don't use itoften.

Heart's appetite as well as her attitudeis surprisinglygood. I currently have her bedded on a board, topped with athick rubber mat, topped with shavings for absorption and a thick layerof straw.







Pam

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Oh my gosh, Pam. That sounds awful!

Baby's skin is not broken, so I'm wondering if it may be due to bacteria settling in the joint, as mentioned in the article above.

She's always sneezed from time to time (no discharge) and we thought it was just allergies, but now I'm wondering if it may be related somehow.

My mind is going in a hundred directions right now.

I guess I'm just hoping for anything but cancer at this point.

 

[pamnock]

Go for the biopsy. Trying to aspiratewith a needle won't work unless the swelling is filled with very thinliquid. I've tried a number of times to aspirate theswellings on hearts legs, but the substance is to thick to even pullthrough a large needle.

Pam

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Vet's office called back:

Needle Aspiration: $125 and may not be conclusive

Biopsy: $540 and we'll have a definite answer

I would think antibiotic treatment would be the next step to rule out an infection, but I'm not a vet.

This vet is a little "gung ho" about invasive procedures.He's already mentioned the possibility of amputation.

I think I am going to get a second opinion before going any further.

 

[pamnock]

Look for a second opinion and a cheaperoption. I went through a period when I though that amputationwould be the only option for Heart - however, things have really turnedaround and I hope we can continue to manage her condition without aturn for the worst. The vet visit for Heart was only about$70. Cost for bandages is minimal.

It took a while for me to be able to get her rear hock open anddraining - it looked pretty bad for a while and you could see rightinto her leg. However, the inflammation is now down and itactually looks pretty good. I don't recommend slicing theentire thing open (too invasive and too much tissue killed - you needsomething left to hold the leg together).

I'll try to get some photos for you sometime this week.

Pam

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Babysaw vet #3 yesterday.

I really liked this guy. He came highly recommended. It's a little further to drive, but worth it.

He said it's WAY too soon to be talking about cancer and amputation.

He did a thorough examination. He asked me to get the x-raysfrom vet #2. He will look at those and go from there. He said his best guess at this point is a bacterial infection that settled in the joint.

The next step is antibiotics, then needle aspiration (under sedation).

Oh, and he says it's her elbow that's swollen, not her wrist.

Snuggy came along for the ride, and got a "mini-exam"herself! I mentioned to him that Snuggy was supposedly spayed before I got her, but I had no proof. With ovarian cancer so common in unspayed does, I worry. He flipped her over, shaved her belly and found a tiny scar for me. That's a huge relief for me. Snuggy, on the other hand, was NOT amused.

 

[naturestee]

Aw, tell Snuggy that shaved bunny bellies are cute!

I really like the sound of this new vet. It sounds like he'strying to cover all the possibilities instead of jumping at one far-outoption. I hope he can help Baby!

 

[Bassetluv]

It sounds like you've found a good vet there,Snuggy'smom...hopefully with his insight Baby will be diagnosed andrecover quickly. A good vet is so worth his/her weight in gold...

Thoughts and prayers going out for both Baby and Pam's Heart...
ray:ray:

:kiss:

 

[HoneyPot]

Oh man, this is great news - not only finding avet that seems really caring, but also one that is not jumping to theworst possible conclusions without doing thorough checking.

Vet #3 sounds like a winner.

(snuggles) to Baby and Snuggy. Shaved tummys are cute! A new haircutfor the Spring season. hee.

________
Nadia

 

[pamnock]

Very glad to hear you found another vet!

Pam

 

[jordiwes]

Lol, I'm laughing at poor Snuggy and her bald spot.

I'm so glad you found such a great vet. They're worth their weight in gold.

 

[Carolyn]

Snuggys Mom wrote:

He said it's WAY too soon to be talking about cancer andamputation.

AMEN! I could've KILLED that other jerk for telling youthat. As I said to you prior, there are so many things itcould've been other than just defaulting to cancer.

1) Abcess

2) Abcess that now has an infection

3) Fluid on the joint

4) Arthritis with inflammation

I'm glad you kept me updated, Laura. Please continue to do so.

As previously noted in our emails: If it shows inflammationanother option would be steroids (not to be given with metacam). Eitheran injection of dexamethasone or oral prednisone. Ifarthritis is suspected, glucosamine/chondroitin might help.Some vetsprefer Adequan injections for glucosaminetreatment.

Pam, I am glad to hear that progress is being made withHeart. If anyone can do it, you're the Woman to make ithappen.

The five of you (Laura, Baby, Pam, Heart, and of course Snuggy for the aggravation) are in my thoughts and prayers.

Much love,

-Carolyn

 

[pamnock]

Any updates!

Pam

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Yes! Thanks for asking.

The new vet looked at the x-rays and wants to try to do a needle aspiration (under sedation). I understand that it may be impossible because rabbit pus isusually VERY thick.

If he finds an abscess, he'll open it, clean it and put her on antibiotics (possibly indefinitely). If he happens to find a tumor, he'll biopsy it and we'll go from there.

I found this article very informative:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=503&S=5&SourceID=43

It says abscesses that are closed up almost always come back, but due to the location, Baby's will have to be closed up. That's a concern. The article says drains should not be left in because theyperpetuate the infection.

Edited to say: Baby's appointment is next Friday, the 20th.

 

[naturestee]

Yay for the new vet! That's what myvet does too, when he's not positive what it is. You'reright, it might be hard to aspirate the pus. But if it'scancer or fluids from arthritis, he should hopefully be able to get asample.

If it is an abscess, you could talk to him about injected penicillan orimplanting an antibiotic bead when the abscess is removed.Both tend to be more effective on abscesses than oral antibioticsalone. Penicillan also is sometimes used when the abscesscan't be removed due to the location. He may already bethinking about those, but just in case.

 

[pamnock]

Thanks for the update! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things go well at her upcoming appointment ray:



Pam

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Thanks, guys.

Pam, how is Heart doing?