Arthritic Bunny

[Basil]

Hi All,

So I got back from the vet and my little bunny Basil has some pretty bad arthritis going on - in all joints and his spine. The vet is looking into some antiinflammatories for him, as well as possibly trying glucosamine. For those who use these, can you tell me your dosages? I am waiting to hear back from her, but just wondering what everyone else is doing.

I plan on putting him on a heating pad nightly. which got me thinking... anyone think that water therapy might be worth trying?? They are doing it for cats and ferrets now. He is old enough that he doesn't fight the water - I'd probably start out really slow, with a tiny bit of warm water, then work up. Basicly maybe hold him suspended in water to work his joints a bit? I sort of also got the idea from this crazy commercial: (the travel's insurance lucky bunny foot reattachment one) [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp7Uc5a_XRE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp7Uc5a_XRE[/ame] its probably a crazy idea, but I want to do as much as possible to make him comfy.

I'm also modifying everything to be as soft and accessible as possible.. already have the low boxes/with a ramp.

Thanks all!

 

[Pipp]

Does Basil like the water or has he just given up fighting it? I think you have to be the one to assess his stress level on this one.

Here's some great info on Glucosamine/Chondroitin. It helps a lot of rabbits, although not all.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Bone_diseases/Osteo/arthritis.htm

Another consideration may be acupuncture. A number of vets are having good success with that for various ailments, although I'm not completely sure arthritis is among them, I'm just assuming it is.

Metacam is the usual NSAID for bunny arthritis I think, although you have to be very careful with the kidneys and liver functions, as with all NSAIDs. (You definitely can't give it to a dehydrated bunny, I learned that one the hard way).

How old is Basil and what does he weigh? My Metacam doses for my dwarf are all over the map. It may take experimentation -- start small and increase until you find a comfort level. (Although it is common to start with a kick-off dose that could be double the regular dose).

Keep us posted!



sas :bunnydance:

 

[naturestee]

Hi! Sorry your bun isn't doing well. Which pain med is he on? I've heard that glucosamine works pretty well in animals, hopefully it will be good for your guy.

Instead of an electric heating pad, get a Snuggle Safe. I found mine in the dog bedding section of Petsmart. It's a plastic disk that you heat in the microwave and it's supposed to hold the heat for 8 hours or so. It comes with a soft cover too. It's much safer, as any of my rabbits would love to chew cords.

He might like some soft, safe bedding. A cheap one to try is fleece, which you can get at any fabric store. It's soft, washes well, and can't unravel. A lot of people like Vet Bed and Palace Pet Bedding, which are made for disabled animals. You might be able to find it in some pet stores, or search on the internet for vendors.

I'd be careful with the water therapy. I saw a video of it once on one of the HRS websites (forget which chapter), but it's really uncommon with rabbits. Maybe start by putting something down for traction in a tub and put warm water just at the lowest part by the drain. See if he'll go in willingly.

What area of Wisconsin are you in? There are veterinary chiropracters that might be able to help with the spinal arthritis. TreasuredFriend takes two of her disabled buns to one in the Waukesha/Milwaukee area. Some people have also seen good results from acupuncture.

I do recommend picking up the book When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care by Lucille Moore and Kathy Smith. It covers a lot of different conditions and treatments, as well as tips for caring for the buns. There's also a lot of info in our Library.

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Arthritis is a tough thing to deal with. It sounds as if your vet is on top of her game. It seems the easiest of the NSAIDs for a rabbit is Metacam. Like all NSAIDs, it can be rough on the liver and kidneys if used long term or in a dehydrated animal. But this might be a case of quality of life and taking the lesser of the evils. I would suggest using Metacam at standard dosing (there are now3 different concentrations of Metacam available in veterinary medicine so the exact dosing would depend on the version of drug scripted). The glucosamine is believed by some to be of benefit to the joints. I have used it in some mobility impaired rabbits. I can't really say if it did any good at all....but it certainly didn't seem to hurt either. And this was suggested by one of my vets.....a teaching vet that is known the world over. I would highly suggest doing a CBC so you will have a base line to chart liver and kidney function and be able to modify treatments if necessary should NSAIDs be prescribed. A CBC should be performed at regular intervals to keep a watch on those organs.

Hydro-therapy is something that seems to be very beneficial to many species with mobility issues. There is an internationally known veterinary physical therapist associated with a local vet school here. They have achieved some miraculous results. And when properly acclimated, rabbits are excellent swimmers. I think it would be an excellent treatment if properly conducted.

Supplemental heat would most likely be beneficial. The only other suggestion I would submit for consideration would be the use of injectable B Comp (a vitamin).

Randy

 

[Basil]

Great suggestions everyone. The vet returned my call and said I should feed him 1tsp of ground flaxseed a day (he is underweight, so the calories are ok) and the cat version of Cosequin. QUESTION: the ingredients include tuna and chicken.. this just seems wrong giving it to him But then again, glucosamine is made of shellfish, so .. I guess at that point it doesn't matter any more. I feel like I'm sneaking a vegan meat! But I suppose the benefits outweigh the.. task.

I will look for that book, thanks! I have some fleece that I put down for them, but I went and picked up more today. My living room is now basically wrapped in fleece (kind of like old people and their plastic on furniture ). I have yet to give him the gluco./flax/pumpkin concoction to see how he takes to that. But he basically eats anything that isn't moving, so he'll probably be ok with it.

He is also having some problems getting to his rump and has accumulated a lot of dandriff.. starting last week I rubbed in some olive oil... what do other people do? He is starting to smell like italian cooking he he he.

The reason I orignally brough him to the vet was because I thought he was having bladder/UTI problems - he would just pee and poop kind of whereever, never really in the box, though he goes in there sometimes. Turns out he doesn't want to move around a lot and that's probably the cause of the pee issue. Since I've made ramps into the boxes (which are only about 3" high anyways) he's been in there more! Yay!

to answer your questions:
Does Basil like the water or has he just given up fighting it?
- Good question. I haven't had him around water in a while, I was sort of just asking experiences so I can either start with it or just dump the idea totally if there is no use trying.

How old is Basil and what does he weigh?
He was a rescue, and according to what we are thinking he should be nearing 9. He weighs an itty bitty 3.5 pounds.

Which pain med is he on?
He is not on any pain meds yet. The vet is having me go with the gluco. treatment first I believe, and then see how he responds to that. She did mention Metacam - maybe when I stop back next week I can talk to her further about that - maybe some doses for bad days.

What area of Wisconsin are you in?
I'm in Green Bay

Thanks all for your replies! I'll keep this thread updated when I have more developments.

 

[tonyshuman]

With mobility problems and urinary tract problems, you may want to check for e cuniculi. It's a common parasite of rabbits that can lie dormant in their systems for a very long time. It often first manifests as hind leg reduced mobility and urinary problems. I know the veterinary diagnostic lab here at UW-Madison does a titer for EC.

How old is Basil? Some good things have been said already so I won't repeat them, but Metacam is approved for long-term use in dogs, and in rabbits it's a bit trickier due to the liver/kidney issues. Monitoring liver/kidney function regularly when they're used long-term is important.

I don't know if it will be a problem that there's animal stuff in the medicine, except that it may make it taste terrible.

Good luck!!

 

[Basil]

I took in a urine sample, and they tested it out and it came up clear. Is is standard to test for cuniculi? He isn't dribbling, or acting at pain/grinding teeth when he goes to the bathroom - he does a lift and goes then hops away

 

[Maureen Las]

I wouldn't do hydrotherapy on him until you investigated it more. I can understand how it could be helpful, however , it may be too stressful if not done in a knowledgeable manner with an older bun. Something to check into and possibly learn how to do correctly . If I tried that on one of mine I think I would create more problems than they have already. The concept is great but actually determining if your rabbit's personality can handle it is another matter.

You can give him a butt bath using pure cornstarch. That would be the kind you buy in the goricery store to mix in to make gravy etc not the kind that you buy for babies that has talc in in it.

I have given cornstarch butt baths to buns . It works to a degree that you don't have to wet the bun everyday but I still ended up giving wet butt baths about every 3rd day because the cornstach would build up
I may have a link to a good glucosomanine/chondroitin product for rabbits but will have to look for it

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12067&forum_id=17

 

[Pipp]

Is he able to reach and injest his cecals? (The poop that looks like grape clumps). Sometimes you may have to feed them to him by hand. :yuck But he needs to eat them.

I think arthritis is probably is only issue. I hope he gets Metacam soon, it will make him feel better.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[naturestee]

I'd recommend pain meds like Metacam. He'll feel a lot better with them. I'm not real familiar with vets in Green Bay so I don't know if anyone there does veterinary chiropracter or acupuncture work. Look around and see if anyone labels themselves as doing that or "holistic" care which often includes that. Although if you like your vet for dogs, pm me the info! My brother lives there and just adopted his first puppy.

How familiar is your vet with rabbits? I'm mainly asking because you said he's "looking into" anti-inflammatories for Basil where most rabbit-savvy vets would have at least given Metacam right away, if not discussed a few others. It's sometimes surprising how unfamiliar most cat/dog vets are with treating rabbits. If you're not sure, I think the WI HRS has had some people up in Green Bay. You can ask them who they like and why. Their website and a list of vets is here:
http://www.wisconsinhrs.org/Recommended%20Vets.htm

Although there are certainly more good rabbit vets than are on that list. My vet in Sheboygan is great, if you really need something.

FYI, you'll most likely have to buy the book online. Most stores don't carry much for rabbit books, even bigger places like Barnes & Noble. It's well worth it though.

Edit: If you haven't bought them yet, you can feed whole flax seeds too. I feed those and whole black oil sunflower seeds to one of my buns who has trouble keeping her weight up. Just tiny amounts, but it makes a difference. The oils in those are really good for many animals (including humans).

 

[tonyshuman]

If keeping weight on is an issue, nutrical is a good choice. They make it in a malt flavor that bunnies like.

The diagnosis of EC is frequently a process of ruling out other things it could be, unfortunately. There is a test that can be done on the blood but it is difficult to interpret. Almost all bunnies have been exposed to EC at some point in their life, so they will come back positive for it. I think a very high value on the EC titer may indicate an active infection.

You might want to bring this up for with your vet, to see if he knows about it. Any rabbit vet should know of EC and think of it as a possible diagnosis.

If nothing comes up on a urinalysis, you may consider doing the EC titer and/or just treating for it. I don't know, exactly, what the best course here is. I wonder what exactly led your vet to a diagnosis of arthritis, which must be treated with long-term anti-inflammatories, which can be potentially harmful to the kidneys and liver. EC is not easy to treat, but it can be treated, unlike arthritis.

 

[Basil]

For the flax seed - I thought that whole seeds were non-digestable because of the hull/outer part and the needed to be ground to get at the oils? Or is that just people?

The reason she said arthritis is she did a bunch of range of motion activities with him and did an xray - the xray showed ... calcification (sorry, if thats the wrong term) .. or whatever that is with arthritis around his joints and spine. The vets at the office I go to all have experience with rabbits, but it wouldn't hurt seeing someone else I suppose. Now you got me all worried that I have been seeing a bum vet Why can't bunnies be more mainstream like cats and dogs??

Edited to add: He can reach his cecals - his bend in that direction is fine, he just has a hard time reaching anything on his top side.

 

[Pipp]

There is no reason at this point not to trust your vet about the arthritis, and there's no reason to deviate off that path onto something like EC without treating for arthritis.

I'd continue on the path you were on. The vet may be exploring the kidney/liver issues with Metacam, was a blood test done? As Randy said, the levels should be monitored.

Explore the hydro-therapy and acupuncture, Vitamin B, and for sure make sure he's on a pain med, preferably an anti-inflamatory. Question your vet about the initial reluctance to prescribe Metacam, there may be a reason not discussed with you.



sas :bunnydance:

 

[naturestee]

If they have some experience with rabbits, it's probably ok. Just double check anything they give you- I do this anyway even though my vets are great with rabbits. I wouldn't drive down here or anything but it wouldn't hurt to look for a back-up vet in your area. It always seems like during emergencies my main two vets are gone. I do have some crazy rabbit problems though.:rollseyes

I do think that E.C. isn't likely if the xrays and range of motion tests are showing arthritis. It is pretty common in older buns.

My buns chew the flax seeds, and I did notice a difference when I added them. So they're getting something out of it. I just thought I'd put that out there if it was easier to feed them that way. I might start with half a teaspoon for the first few days- it's a lot more fatty than rabbits are used to eating. I actually feed 1/4 teaspoon a day, and my bun is also 3.5 lbs. I'm not going on a vet's recommendation though.

 

[tonyshuman]

Oh I see. It's good that you have some stronger evidence for it being arthritis, like those tests you described. I just wanted to bring up the possibility of EC in case your vet was unused to treating rabbits and arrived at a diagnosis of arthritis simply because there's reduced mobility and no other obvious cause. The x-rays and mobility tests are good support for arthritis.

Don't worry--it sounds like you have a good vet. It is often good to have a backup in case you can't get into one on short notice, like naturestee said. It's just that rabbits are so frequently treated like dogs and cats, and some vets don't know many of the rabbit-specific diseases like EC.

I bet with some practice you could do hydrotherapy in your tub--maybe mention it to your vet. I am thinking maybe putting a small dog's life jacket on him and holding him gently while he paddles a bit? It might be something he would enjoy.

In addition, for older bunnies with incontinence issues, something called Vet Bed is great to line their living space. It's a soft fleecy material that wicks away moisture to keep it off of delicate skin that he can't reach to clean. I'm having a hard time finding a US supplier, but maybe someone else has a recommendation?

 

[naturestee]

Try Palace Pet Bedding, I think that's the one that's more available here.

 

[Haley]

How is your Basil doing? My Basil also developed arthritis recently and Im going through the same thing as you. Does the Cosequin seem to be working? Ive been using it for a few months and it does seem to help. A friend also found out you can have your vet order it from the manufacturer compounded to a rabbit friendly taste if your bun doesnt like the tuna flavor (mine doesnt seem to mind).
Hope Basil is well!

 

[pla725]

Smitten also developed paralysis from arthritis. I use a dog bed liner and sheepskin to keep her comfortable and to help with the moisture. Make sure you turn your bunny every two hours or so. Smitten refuses to turn over and has developeda bed sore that flares up now and then. I just keep the area clean as possible and put ointment on it. I have been trying to use the small dog diapers on her but she isn't thrilled about wearing them. She should have her wheelie ready soon. I just hope she is able to use it.

 

[Basil]

Sorry to hear about Smitten and her paralysis Sounds like he has a good home though, someone to take care of her and get her a little bunny cart!

Basil is doing Ok. I can definitely notice when I miss a few days of glucosamine, he has a harder time getting up and going. I think it helped a lot that I made ramps into the litter boxes, that was probably the best change I made.

He was having a weight problem as well - the flax seeds have helped him and he is no longer losing weight and has gained a few ounces. Its hard to fatten up a bunny when you need to.. so easy when you dont His cagemate is getting pudgy, but she is a lop, so she seems to be prone to that.

Basil doesn't mind the flavor of the cosequin - i mash it in a banana and he comes running