Another Tall Tale -- Enzymes

[Lazyacre]

Sudden diarrhea and death is often due to endotoxins produced in the gut. If the rabbit gets too much carbohydrate bacteria use it as a growth medium and produce deadly toxins. Could also have been something else ingested from the yard that killed the normal flora of the gut, allowing pathogens to over grow and produce diarrhea. Usually the normal flora of the gut will keep the bad bugs in check. Maybe a herb acide or fertilizer from neighboring yard.

Mucoid Enteropathy normally doesn't involve inflammation of the gut (which is why it's name was changed from Mucoid Enteritis). It is normally due to a blockage of the hindgut, often from inadequate fiber in the diet of young rabbits. The cecum is blocked by impacted feed particles, allowing only mucous from intestinal wall cells to pass. Years ago it was found that it could be decreased by adding copper sulfate to rabbit pellets. Some use stool softeners, Simethicone and enemas tomove the blockage. Usually,by time it is discovered it is difficult to reverse. I feed the litters lots of fiber (hay or straw) as they come out of the nest box to make sure they've got plenty of coarse fiber to keep their guts scrubbed out, preventing blockage.

Non mucoid enteritis is usually due to infection, which would cause inflammation and liquid stool, the rabbit dies from dehydration. Neomycin is a good antibiotic in this instance, along with probiotics and hay.

 

[JimD]

FreddysMom wrote:

wow! .. i really feel likei am in a lecture hallright now .. this is awesome how much info you can get from this forum

Ditto!

pssst!...are ya takin notes??

Sharing this information has already given me a better understanding of the sequence of events that can occur.

This kind of information not only helps us to prevent and treat, but also can help our vets treat our bunnies if we can pass on something valuable to assit with diagnosis.

Luckily our vet is rabbit savy, but she always takes the time to "discuss" issues rather than "tell" us what going on. We both end up with a good understanding of any situations and knowing that we're on the same page.

Thanks All !

~JimD

 

[Carolyn]

Since this talk of the enzymes, I'm wondering what it was that got Tucker through his GI Stasis. I had given these treatments to him every 4 hours for at least a week. He had completely stopped eating and pooping at the time. The animal hospital told me not even to bring him in; there was nothing they could do for him. I seem to remember his system 'opened up' after the Tetracycline and the cannedpumpkin.

* * * * *

What I used to get Tucker out of this war with GI Stasis.

Simethicone: It's an infants' gas relief drops and you can purchase it at a pharmacy. The price I paid was $5.27. This helps the gas within the hairball to break down.

Pedialyte: In the baby section of a pharmacy. This helps prevent hydration. I paid $5.53

Papaya Tablets: Has to be the tablets. Papain is the ingredient you most want from the tablets. You can get these tablets at many grocery stores, a pharmacy, or a health food store. I paid about $5

Tetracycline: An antibiotic for the bacteria that can build as a result of the blockage. It can be purchased at a Tractor Supply Company store for $5 and change. You can get it at feed stores. It's claim to fame is an antibiotic for chickens, cattle, sheep and bees.

NutriCal: A dietary supplement that will keep your rabbit's nutrient supply going while he/she's not eating. It can be purchased at the same place as the Tetracycline usually. A feed store, Tractor Supply, or something of that line for about $10.

Fresh Pineapple Juice: Canned pineapple juice won't do the job of breaking down the hairball with the acids that fresh pineapple has. Grocery store, of course.

Canned Pumpkin: It has to be canned.

Syringes: At least one 3 cc syringe purchased at pharmacy because chances are, you'll have to force feed many of the above.

You can use a meat tenderizer that has less sugar, but more salt. You'll find that if you ask 5 different professionals, they're advice will overlap and what one says isn't what another agrees with.

In the end, it's your call. As Pamnock said to me, you just have to gather all the information you can, think of the research and make a decision as to what treatment you'll use.

 

[pamnock]

Pain medications are also commonly used during supportive treatment.

Pam

 

[Carolyn]

pamnock wrote:

Pain medications are also commonly used during supportive treatment.

Pam

Bayer aspirin or baby aspirin is what comes to mind. What pain meds do you administer, Pam?

-Carolyn

 

[bunnydude]

Are papaya tablets bad for them? I just order a bunch of stuff from Oxbow, including their papaya tablets. Can they be fed sparingly, like one a day or one a week or something?

 

[Pet_Bunny]

I am feeding Pebbles2-3 papaya tablets a dayplus dried papaya as treats,and she is a pooping machinewhich I don't mind,because she isnearthe end of her molt now.

Rainbows!

 

[Lissa]

Wow! This thread is VERY informative.

 

[FreddysMom]

ohhhhhh Pam I have a question for you .. I know you are always on the hunt and/or testing different options to treat GI Stasis....it was recently brought up and I went searching on the internet for things that break down keratin...

low and behold I found a medication that is used in both people and animals called Viokase ....

It is normally used for someone/animal who's pancreas is no longer working properly and cannot provide essential digestive enzymes for him/herself...

I found it interesting, b/c these enzymes are guaranteed to work in your stomach's/GI tracts acidic nature (Ive always had my doubts that bromelain and papain do anything b/c I really think they are degraded as soon as they hit the stomach or completely inactive due to the pH conditions)

and while I still dont know if they will break down the Keratin in the hair (which normally Keratin breaks down in basic pHenzymaticsolutions) it will for certain breakdown the mucous and food in the blockage...

sooo... I was just wondering if you have heard of its use and what you think of it .. or if you havent based on this what your opinion would be

and here is a link on the drug info (granted its the for ppl one.. but I doubt it changes much for animals except in the way of dosage)

http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Viokase_Tablets.html

 

[pamnock]

There is currently no sure fire treatment for blockages (Trichobezoars composed of hair, fat & mucus)due to GI stasis in humans or animals.

Info on treating GI stasis:

http://members.aol.com/bcwooly/hairballs.html



Treatment of gastric stasis and trichobezoars in the rabbit consists of rehydration and dietary management. Rabbits with gastric stasis can have fluid imbalances and may resorb water from the GI contents. The mass of ingest a in the stomach needs to be rehydrated and in a slurry state to effectively pass through the pylorus. Fluids should be administered both enterally and parenterally. In stable patients, subcutaneous fluids (LRS) are administered at100 ml/kg/day. IV fluids are reserved for weak, shocky, and hypothermic rabbits. Oral fluids can consist of watered down juices (apple or pineapple) or vegetable baby food, or a commercial human product like Ensure. Rabbits who seem painful or have a lot of gaseous distension may benefit from 1-2 days of injectable NSAIDs like Banamine at 0.5-1 mg/kg. The motility modifiers metoclopramide (Reglan: 0.5 mg/kg, q8h) orcisapride (Propulsid: 0.5-1 mg/kg, q12h) can be used safely as long as the rabbit does not have a complete blockage or acute abdomen. Antibiotics may not be indicated unless the rabbit has diarrhea, or prolonged clinical disease. Improvement is usually seen in 2-4 days and consists of an increase in appetite and fecal output. Heidi L. Hoefer, DVM-San Diego County VMA ConferenceProceedings

 

[FreddysMom]

ahh I cant believe I forgot to include this..here is the article that mentioned its use .. scroll down to Enzymatic Digestive Aids.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

 

[pamnock]

The link I posted http://members.aol.com/bcwooly/hairballs.htmldebated the effectiveness of treating blockages withViokase, and found that it didn't break up hair. It's safety and effectiveness for using it to treat blockages in rabbits is debatable and only used as a last ditch effort. While a possible course of treatment to consider when all else has failed, it is certainly no miracle drug.

The best things I have found to dissolve hair are drain cleaners, Nairand bleach. (Certainly none of these are safe to feed a rabbit). Any enzymes I have tried have had no effectin breaking apart the proteinsof the hair.



Pam

 

[seniorcats]

One of my catswas taking Viokase andit was expensive, if I remember correctly.

Pam, thanks for the link. The one and only time I had a rabbit with the start of GI stasis, my treatment was to up the salads with more high fiber vegy's, decrease the pellets a littleto encourage more hay eating and subcutaneous lactated ringers solution -about 75 ml's once a day for 2 days.

I didn't want to cut out the pellets, which a lot of people had advised me to do, because I thought an abrupt diet change would hurt more than it would help. I didn't use oatmeal either because of the high carbohydrates. It worked for us and bunny was fine by day 2

We always have Lactated Ringers, needles and tubing on hand because wehave several senior cats with Chronic Renal Failure. The get subcutaneous fluids twice a week to flush the kidneys - a home kitty kidney dialysis. The LR is about $3.50 a bag and 18 gauge needles are about $1.00 a dozen from our vet. Cheap and easy to use.

 

[seniorcats]

What about psyllium fiber? Is it possible to use this for rabbits? There is one brand made for diabetics that is sugar free. It's a very fine grained tasteless powder. Has anyone tried this and how much is too much?

 

[pamnock]

The most important factor seems to be to keep the rabbit hydrated. I also use Nutri Cal for supportive treatment.

Other foods can be given, however, remember that the GI tract is is stasis and that's what caused the blockage in the first place. This is often due to a viral/bacterial infection or genetic predisposition due to poor nerve development in the intestines. Stuffing fiber in may not help. The Nutri Cal is easily absorbed, so I prefer to use that.

Gut motility agents are sometimes used, but are not alway effective and may cause intestinal rupture.

Pam