Advice needed - small poop, behavior off after neuter

[Kleb06]

Hi everyone! I found this forum trying to find information so I thought maybe I can get some input…
I have a Holland lop male that is a little over 6 months old and was neutered about 2 1/2 weeks ago. He just doesn’t quite seem “normal” to me
He is free roam with the exception of nighttime when he goes in a big pen.
I have chickens and ducks and a cat so I’m usually pretty intune with them when something is off
He seems a bit lethargic and not drinking as much as well as darker smaller poops
Feeding schedule
AM 1tbsp pellets(feeding board)
1-2 cups fresh greens ( washed andfrom my garden. I’ll vary what he eats: carrot tops, different lettuce, collard greens, chard, beet tops, kale, parsley, mint, lemon balm, cilantro)
Hay: unlimited - I pick fresh Timothy hay and dry it, however the hay is fairly bleached and the moment so I’ve added oxbow Timothy hay to it
PM 1 tbsp pellets ( feeding board)

poops- they were a good size in the past few weeks I’ve noticed they have gotten darker and a bit smaller and seem dryer with the occasional pretty small ball

**urine. He was drinking close to 3 cups a day and I would change his litter box(pellets) daily but I guess since the neuter it’s only been every other day and he seems to be now only drinking about 1/2 cup and I have to coax him to drink ( he did pee 2x last night)
** it was hot during the time he was drinking a lot and it has cooled and we purchased an AC I turn on the days it’s very hot
(Frozen water bottles were changed out throughout hot days)

he was eating and drinking when I brought him home from neuter.
I did bring him camping in a trailer Thursday night only and he seemed slightly stressed during the ride but seemed fine once we got there

sorry it’s a lot of info but plz ask if there is anything I could have left out.
i havnt had a bunny since I was a teen and that was a long time ago

 

[Button]

i would call the vet he was neutered at and ask them what they think.

 

[Kleb06]

i would call the vet he was neutered at and ask them what they think.

Ok! Thank you

 

[Button]

Also, keep watching him and his behavior if they change or not. Some rabbits will act different after a spay/ neuter because of being under anesthesia.

 

[Kleb06]

Also, keep watching him and his behavior if they change or not. Some rabbits will act different after a spay/ neuter because of being under anesthesia.

I just tried to call and they are closed today because of the holiday. He is still eating and pooping and drinking(although less than he was) and will hop around but he just seems a little different. My hubby thinks I’m just being paranoid. I hope it’s just because he has new hay and was a bit stressed from the car ride.
I keep checking on him and he’s probably super annoyed. It is normal for him to sleep for hours during the day tho.

 

[Button]

im not sure i have yet to experience anything form a neuter.

 

[Kleb06]

im not sure i have yet to experience anything form a neuter.

It was 2 1/2 weeks ago and I wasn’t going to get him neutered, he wasn’t showing any signs of aggression or spraying but because I was planning on getting another bunny he would need to be neutered. It was nerve wrecking

 

[Button]

you will want to spay or neuter the other rabbit as well. Also if you need bonding help i know a lot about it.

 

[JBun]

3 cups a day is excessive, though heat and being a hormonal male could account for some of that. 1/2 cup for a holland lop around 4 lbs, is normal, especially since he also gets veggies. General amount for water intake at mild environmental temps(70 f) is about 1 oz. per lb. of body weight, with variations depending on diet.

Did the poop changes happen after you added the store bought timothy, and is it a more leafy soft cut? Or did any other dietary changes occur just previous to the poop changes? I would also check his pellets and hay to make sure there are no signs of mold(white or black spots, white dust, dampness) and that it doesn't smell sour or musty.

Keep in mind that bucks will gradually settle down after a neuter as the hormones start fading, since they no longer have that hormonal drive. So they can become a much calmer docile rabbit. Which can also mean they become less active. They may not eat as much or drink as much because they have a reduced need. They don't need as much calories and are no longer spraying or marking territory, so won't drink as much either.

It's judging whether his behavior and eating/drinking, falls under the normal category for a normal neutered male rabbit, or if his behavior and eating/drinking is abnormal even for a neutered bun. If you feel it's abnormal and that something is off, best to consult with your vet.

 

[Kleb06]

3 cups a day is excessive, though heat and being a hormonal male could account for some of that. 1/2 cup for a holland lop around 4 lbs, is normal, especially since he also gets veggies. General amount for water intake at mild environmental temps(70 f) is about 1 oz. per lb. of body weight, with variations depending on diet.

Did the poop changes happen after you added the store bought timothy, and is it a more leafy soft cut? Or did any other dietary changes occur just previous to the poop changes? I would also check his pellets and hay to make sure there are no signs of mold(white or black spots, white dust, dampness) and that it doesn't smell sour or musty.

Keep in mind that bucks will gradually settle down after a neuter as the hormones start fading, since they no longer have that hormonal drive. So they can become a much calmer docile rabbit. Which can also mean they become less active. They may not eat as much or drink as much because they have a reduced need. They don't need as much calories and are no longer spraying or marking territory, so won't drink as much either.

It's judging whether his behavior and eating/drinking, falls under the normal category for a normal neutered male rabbit, or if his behavior and eating/drinking is abnormal even for a neutered bun. If you feel it's abnormal and that something is off, best to consult with your vet.

Thank you for this info! He weighs 3.5 pounds at neuter. I did think the amount was a lot but everything else seemed normal so I figured it to be because of heat and hormones. It seems he is drinking what’s considered more “normal” now.
The only dietary change was the bought hay and it is soft, leafy and dusty so that may be the cause of his changing pop balls. I needed to start adding it around the time of neuter.
the hay was nice at first but I guess it changes in the sun before it gets cut but the second growth should be shortly and since I hand cut it, it allows me to be very selective.
There are so many variables it gets stressful. I love my little dude like my child.

 

[JBun]

If he's eating mostly leafy strands, that can explain the smaller and darker poop. Leafier grass hay is higher in protein and lower in indigestible fiber. Indigestible fiber is what increases gut motility and poop size, and makes it lighter in color.

If you have any crunchy mature growth stems in the sunbleached hay, if you add those to his leafy hay and he actually eats the coarse stems, that should help improve his poop size and lighten them up, as the coarse stems are mostly indigestible fiber.

With hay, the ideal to shoot for is a balance of leaf and crunchy stems, so you get a good balance of protein and nutrients needed for health and weight management, and indigestible fiber for good gut motility.

I went ahead and edited your thread title. It's best to be more specific in your title.

 

[Kleb06]

If he's eating mostly leafy strands, that can explain the smaller and darker poop. Leafier grass hay is higher in protein and lower in indigestible fiber. Indigestible fiber is what increases gut motility and poop size, and makes it lighter in color.

If you have any crunchy mature growth stems in the sunbleached hay, if you add those to his leafy hay and he actually eats the coarse stems, that should help improve his poop size and lighten them up, as the coarse stems are mostly indigestible fiber.

With hay, the ideal to shoot for is a balance of leaf and crunchy stems, so you get a good balance of protein and nutrients needed for health and weight management, and indigestible fiber for good gut motility.

I went ahead and edited your thread title. It's best to be more specific in your title.

I mix both right now but I guess he is not eating the stems. I’ll try and hand feed him stems more often and hopefully he will eat those. I also give him a Sherwood digestive tab every day to try and prevent stasis. Would it help if I took off the thick stems on chard and beet root and light them dry a bit and give him those?

 

[JBun]

Dried or fresh doesn't matter with the fiber. The fiber is the same either way. it's only the maturity of growth that affects that. The less mature the growth and leafier, the more nutrients and protein, and less indigestible fiber. The more mature the growth, there are less nutrients and protein, and more indigestible fiber. So completely mature growths like straw, are pretty much all fiber.

You could always limit the leafy hay to just an amount to balance out the coarse stems. Then free feed the coarse stems and see if that encourages him to eat more of that. You just want to make sure he will actually eat it though, within that first day. Because if he doesn't then you'll want to go back to free feeding the leafy hay so his gut doesn't slow down. Have you noticed if he's eating a pile of hay at least the size of his body per day?

 

[Kleb06]

Dried or fresh doesn't matter with the fiber. The fiber is the same either way. it's only the maturity of growth that affects that. The less mature the growth and leafier, the more nutrients and protein, and less indigestible fiber. The more mature the growth, there are less nutrients and protein, and more indigestible fiber. So completely mature growths like straw, are pretty much all fiber.

You could always limit the leafy hay to just an amount to balance out the coarse stems. Then free feed the coarse stems and see if that encourages him to eat more of that. You just want to make sure he will actually eat it though, within that first day. Because if he doesn't then you'll want to go back to free feeding the leafy hay so his gut doesn't slow down. Have you noticed if he's eating a pile of hay at least the size of his body per day?

oh wow that’s great info. So just to clarify they need both types of hay younger and muture to keep everything moving correctly?
Just wondering what someone would do if they could only buy store hay and it’s always soft leafy hay? Would you just buy different types and mix them?

I picked some out and he did eat them from my hand. I’ll try to give him most of the picked hay with a small amount of store tomorrow and just keep an eye to make sure he’s eating both and yes he probably eats more than his body size in hay everyday.

 

[JBun]

It is usually better if they have both for the right balance. Though sometimes just feeding a leafy hay or just feeding a coarse hay will work depending on the other parts of the rabbits diet and how sensitive a digestive system a particular rabbit has.

If you don't have a choice and only had leafy hay available, and it was causing slow gut movement and small poop, I wouldn't feed any sugary/high carb foods as that just further slows down digestion, also reduce pellets and feed mostly hay and non starch veggies/greens.

If I only had coarse hay available, I would increase pellet amounts to increase nutrients and protein in the diet. And I would make sure I was feeding a high quality pellet as well.

Years ago I bought a load of mature rye hay. My rabbits loved it but because it was a mature growth, it was mostly fiber with little nutrients. So I fed more good quality pellets to make up for the low protein content of the hay. But one of the rabbits in one of my pairs, would leave her share of the pellets for her partner to eat cause she liked the rye hay too much and she would mostly eat the hay. She ended up self barbering and losing weight because it had very little protein and nutrients in it. It would have been fine if she had eaten her share of pellets, but she preferred the hay. So I ended up having to switch to a different hay that was a mix of leaf and stem.

It's all about balance. Rabbits need a certain amount of protein to maintain a healthy weight. They get that in part from their pellets, but also from the leafy parts of good quality grass hay. They also need indigestible fiber to keep gut contents moving through smoothly. There is some of this in the leafy hay and the other foods, but the highest amounts are in the coarse hay stems. But too much indigestible fiber and not enough protein will result in weight loss and possibly other health issues.

For some rabbits, it can be just fine feeding a leafier hay and not have problems with slow motility or GI stasis. And then for some rabbits it's important for them to have enough coarse stems and the extra fiber for optimal gut motility. I had a megacolon bun that had to have a certain amount of coarse stems in his diet or it would cause problems with his digestion. So it's just finding the right balance for your rabbit, to maintain a healthy weight and good healthy looking fecal balls.

 

[Kleb06]

It is usually better if they have both for the right balance. Though sometimes just feeding a leafy hay or just feeding a coarse hay will work depending on the other parts of the rabbits diet and how sensitive a digestive system a particular rabbit has.

If you don't have a choice and only had leafy hay available, and it was causing slow gut movement and small poop, I wouldn't feed any sugary/high carb foods as that just further slows down digestion, also reduce pellets and feed mostly hay and non starch veggies/greens.

If I only had coarse hay available, I would increase pellet amounts to increase nutrients and protein in the diet. And I would make sure I was feeding a high quality pellet as well.

Years ago I bought a load of mature rye hay. My rabbits loved it but because it was a mature growth, it was mostly fiber with little nutrients. So I fed more good quality pellets to make up for the low protein content of the hay. But one of the rabbits in one of my pairs, would leave her share of the pellets for her partner to eat cause she liked the rye hay too much and she would mostly eat the hay. She ended up self barbering and losing weight because it had very little protein and nutrients in it. It would have been fine if she had eaten her share of pellets, but she preferred the hay. So I ended up having to switch to a different hay that was a mix of leaf and stem.

It's all about balance. Rabbits need a certain amount of protein to maintain a healthy weight. They get that in part from their pellets, but also from the leafy parts of good quality grass hay. They also need indigestible fiber to keep gut contents moving through smoothly. There is some of this in the leafy hay and the other foods, but the highest amounts are in the coarse hay stems. But too much indigestible fiber and not enough protein will result in weight loss and possibly other health issues.

For some rabbits, it can be just fine feeding a leafier hay and not have problems with slow motility or GI stasis. And then for some rabbits it's important for them to have enough coarse stems and the extra fiber for optimal gut motility. I had a megacolon bun that had to have a certain amount of coarse stems in his diet or it would cause problems with his digestion. So it's just finding the right balance for your rabbit, to maintain a healthy weight and good healthy looking fecal balls.

thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge!! I have re-read all your info a bunch of times so I completely understand it all and it makes totally sense!! I thought I knew quite a bit but I feel pretty confident I can improve hisfeeding care with all this info!!
He did seem more energetic this morning and was doing some binkies and this head shake thing he does when he’s happy
I’ll try and pick out good stems and leave only that for the day and see if he will eat that and then do a mix for the night. He’s down for his long nap now until 4