About Qingqing in China

[ChinaBun]

Here are some photos of Qing Qing's suspicious lump

 

[TK Bunnies]

That looks uncomfrotalbe!! I can't really help you much. Poor little girl!!

Get well soon,

-TK :nurse:

 

[ChinaBun]

Yes, poor little girl!

I have to give credit to those photos to two Kiwis (from New Zealand, that is) who are staying with me. They are cycling from London to New Zealand. I met them on couchsurfing.com, in case any of you love traveling. The man is a semi-professional photographer, and volunteered to take photos of Qingqing's lump. The woman is good with computers, and did the Photobucket work to get these online. As you see, we didn't do a perfect job.

In the photos, you can't really see how big the lump is. It extends out maybe a half an inch. It used to be soft, but now there is a bony ridge to it.

I haven't done anything since I last wrote you. She doesn't seem to be in pain. She's still eating and pooping fine. I think I should find a vet who can do x-rays, just to see what the lump is.

I don't know what is discoloring the fur around the lump. When I examined it for these photos, the fur was discolored, but there was nothing on the skin. Keep in mind that the lump is in an area where she can't lick, AFAIK.

Thanks for looking.

 

[TK Bunnies]

The discolored fur might be from puss. It's sort of a yellow/brown color.

WOW! It sticks out half and inch? That's big! :shock:

Are you sure it's not cancer?

 

[Ivory]

Well, if someone presented those pictures to me, I would assume a tooth abscess. It could be a tooth abscess but isn’t bad enough or positioned in a place where it would stop her eating. It looks like a perfect molar abscess. The discoloration looks like dermatitis- another part of a tooth abscess.

Basically, she looks like she has pretty advanced dental disease.

Not all abscesses will respond to a particular type of antibiotic, some animals are quite resistant to penicillin or penicillin-related drugs for whatever reason. It’s not *always* the best, in my opinion, of course others are entitled to their own, I haven no problem with it.

The problem is, if you don’t know someone who can gas her or otherwise knock her out, then you can’t really get good X-rays. Good X-rays for molar problems involve putting the rabbit in very odd positions. General palpation can also indicate.

The problem with dental abscesses is that in reality, it’s better for them to be opened, flushed, and treated that way. If it isn’t, then we get into osteomyelitis, and if it’s allowed to progress too much, then it will eventually cause her to become septic. Osteomyelitis doesn’t carry a good prognosis. Once it gets into the actual jaw bone, most if not all veterinarians strongly prefer to either remove the tooth or at least seriously drain the cavity out.

What I would do, I would make sure that it is a tooth abscess. If they don’t know how to sedate your rabbit using injectables, then I can give you the general doseage. She doesn’t need to be knocked out completely, she just needs to be sedated enough to be pliable for ten minutes.

Frankly, I’ve seen abscesses treated strictly on medicine, but most vets I know don’t prefer that method, but those are skin abscesses, not tooth abscesses. I could be completely wrong in my assumption that this is a tooth abscess- but the dermatitis and positioning makes me think it is, judging strictly by the pictures. I’ve never heard of in any cases personally, nor seen personally, a successful treating of a moderately-severely advanced tooth abscess treated without surgery. The fact that it didn’t respond to antibiotics says something.

So you’re in a bit of a trouble spot.

But the most important thing, is confirming[/i] it.

Does the area have a smell? It doesn’t look to be Pseudomonas because it isn’t green/blue in coloration. She doesn’t look to be displaying other symptoms physically. Usually by the time it starts obviously abscessing they’re beginning to act oddly and show other signs. Is there any discharge from the nose, or the eyes? What is she eating, is she eating hay, or pellets? Look under the rest of her neck, is she losing any hair?

 

[MsBinky]

I definitely agree with a tooth caused abcess. My bunny had it. Her lump just just a tad bit lower than yours. The abcess didn't respond to anitbiotics as well. It just was too severe afterwards.

Quoting from Ivory:

"If it isn’t, then we get into osteomyelitis, and if it’s allowed to progress too much, then it will eventually cause her to become septic. Osteomyelitis doesn’t carry a good prognosis."

My bunny died of that. I really hope you can get good treatment for yours and that it will heal properly :hug:I don't think only medicine will help. I think surgery and the removal of the tooth is required. I could be wrong. All I know is that I truly sympathize and I really hope your bun gets better.

 

[Haley]

Yeah just from the pics I would assume it to be a tooth root/jaw abscess. I dont know if you were around when Max went through this but it was not fun. His was affecting his breathing though so that was a whole different story.

We eventually had to go in surgically and remove the dead bone and abscess. His felt a lot like youre describing, soft in some spots (which would be the abcess) and hard in others (the bone). Max's abscess had spread into the bone and when the vet surgically removed the abscess he had to remove shards of jaw bone as well.

Abscesses are very nasty to deal with, especially if you have no one qualified to help you out. Again, we cant really be sure thats what youre dealing with here unless you can get a portion of it aspirated or something...

I think if it were me I would get my hands on some PenG (Bicillin) and give that as an injection. Thats just me though. Max was on Bicillin for 5 months after the surgery with no side effects and no sign of the infection coming back.

I wish there was more I could do to help. Im glad shes doing ok for now. Youre doing a great job with what you have.

*hugs*

Haley

 

[ra7751]

Wow...that is a tough one. I still have not opened up any dental abscess...not saying I wouldn't.....just have been successful with drugs...so far anyway. I would prefer not to open the abscess. I have run into a very stubborn bacteria in JoJo. It is a bacteria that I have never seen in a rabbit. My vet called the lab to have the finding confirmed. Most abscesses contain anaerobic and aerobicbactera...and the one that JoJo hasalso contains pepto streptococcus. It is proving to be a challenge but we think we have it on the run. I was treating with a combination of Pen G and zithromax. After the latest findings, he is on a combo of Pen G and doxycycline. If all goes well with this round (or two) of this combo, the final shot will be fired by a round (or two) of chloramphenicol. Tough call either way.

Randy

 

[Ivory]

ra7751 wrote:

Wow...that is a tough one. I still have not opened up any dental abscess...not saying I wouldn't.....just have been successful with drugs...so far anyway. I would prefer not to open the abscess. I have run into a very stubborn bacteria in JoJo. It is a bacteria that I have never seen in a rabbit. My vet called the lab to have the finding confirmed. Most abscesses contain anaerobic and aerobicbactera...and the one that JoJo hasalso contains pepto streptococcus. It is proving to be a challenge but we think we have it on the run. I was treating with a combination of Pen G and zithromax. After the latest findings, he is on a combo of Pen G and doxycycline. If all goes well with this round (or two) of this combo, the final shot will be fired by a round (or two) of chloramphenicol. Tough call either way.

Randy

Peptostreptococcus?!

WHOA! That's surprising...

How in the heck did that one happen?!

Edit: Okay let me add something relatively constructive to this post...

I guess I would prefer just plucking out the whole thing as opposed to treating it medically, leaving a rotten, decayed tooth in there, even if the bacteria have healed, just isn't what I would prefer to do. It's just a lot faster, and it's just my preference.

The few I've seen attempt to be treated only medically wound up having to be taken out anyway, in the earlier stages of dental disease I do understand it, and they have been treated with moderate ease. But I've never seen a more advanced case of dental disease treated only medically without some kind of relapse or future problems. I'm not doubting it can't happen- I'm sure it can. I've just never seen it.

Anyways.

I'm sorry about your bunny. She's so beautiful, absolutely amazing looking.

 

[ChinaBun]

I have started another infirmary thread about a wound my rabbit has on her hindquarters.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=29210&forum_id=16&jump_to=380893#p380893

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Qingqing hao ma? Poor little girl, I feel nervous for her. I hope this can be fixed up. I don't have much to add except that I'm pulling for you and Qingqing and I'm glad we have people on the forum who can help!! Good luck!

 

[TweedBunny]

My momjust discovered almost the SAME exact thing onher little dutch rabbit, Buster, yesterday! I've read everything posted here and it seems to be the same condition but the fur has not fallen off. The bump is in the same spot, on his jaw, closer to the back, and is firm but a little 'squishy' inside. (ew, sorry) It is about the size of a gumball.

One thing that IS different that I haven't heard mentioned here is that his LOWER TOOTH has moved out of place. He acts like he doesnt feel so good, but he will still eat his yogurt treats and lettuce.

Can anyone tell me if their bunnies teeth moved when this happened to you?

Also, how MUCH PenG and/or Zithromax do they need to be given each day?

Pics included (sorry, no photo editor to shrink ):

 

[Ivory]

Is your bunny an outside or an inside bunny? If the teeth are moving that can indicatea calcium metabolism problem, a lot of inside rabbits have a problem with it as they need sunlight to help them properly metabolise.

But that doesn't look like an abscess, it looks like one of the normal pockets of fat that rabbits have in their mouths, and that you're pushing it outwards. But it's a bit big. But,molar abscesses tend to be buccal.

I'd get it checked out if you want.

 

[TweedBunny]

The lumps in his mouth are normal. The lump that is of concern is on his left cheek. It can only be seen on the outside of his cheek. It is still hard today but he is eating normaly.

He is an outside bunny. There are no wounds or anything to show he got hurt and got an infection from an open wound.

Anything you can tell me would help me.

 

[Ivory]

The best advice I can give you is to bring him to the vet.

Edit: Actually, upon further consultation of textbooks, I am curious- have you ever had his incisors clipped, as in, just taking a pair of clippers and doing it that way?