Abcess

[mezeta]

Hi,

We are due to get a rabbit from a rescue centre tomorrow. When he was brought into the centre he had been bitten by something and had got three abcess's they treated them and they all cleared up, however recently they noticed the one on the chin had started to come back so they have been treating it and having the vet in once a week to lance it and then they have been sqeazing it in the week and giving him antibiotics orally.

Anyways, the RSPCA said they can either keep him for us however long it takes for him to get better or we can take him home but we would have to do it ourselfs (we have opted to do this because we don't know how long this will go on for and I would rather be looking after him myself and have him in a better environment.) They said they will show us how to do this, but I read on here somewhere about injections Penn G? Is that the name? Would that be effective? I have a really good vet that I take my rabbit too and would like to take him there. Is Penn G worth suggesting to him?

Also I just read on another post (by Flopsy) that you shouldn't sqeeze them and that they shouldn't have antibiotics orally? Sorry for all the questions. Its just I have never had to deal with abcess's before and obviously I want to make sure I am doing the best thing for him.

Thanks x

 

[naturestee]

I recommend taking the bun your vet. Penn G has helped a lot, but if I remember correctly is not available for veterinary use in the UK. You have more strict rules on veterinary drugs than we do in the US, I think drugs have to go through an approval process? I do remember other people in the UK getting penicillan shots, just of a different sort.

Strong antibiotics are definitely needed, especially since the abscess has come back. Do you have any idea if any of the teeth or the bone is involved? An xray might be needed.

Talk to your own vet first, and ask him what sort of treatments he is familiar with for abscesses. Ask about injected meds like penicillan as well as another newer treatment here, antibiotic beads that are put inside the abscess. If he's not familiar with these, especially injected meds, you can print off some articles for him and get him contact info for other vets who do know about them.

There are some great articles in the Library:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11791&forum_id=10

Edit: Nothing wrong with oral antibiotics, they just tend not to be enough. With injected meds, you can use stuff that can't be given orally because it would kill the good bacteria in the rabbit's intestines. So with shots, you get more antibiotic choices, including stronger ones. Squeezing the abscess out doesn't seem to do any good and I imagine it hurts quite a bit. If they're going to be opening the abscess up then they should just take the whole thing out surgically. If I remember right, the pus is often sterile (stuff from the immune system, not the bacteria) and it is the wall of the abcess that holds the real problems. Even with surgery, heavy duty antibiotics should be used because abscesses tend to grow little "fingers" into surrounding tissue and it can be hard to get them all out with surgery. Antibiotics treat the whole thing.

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

I do abscesses quite a bit. Where exactly on the chin is this abscess located? Many times an abscess in that area is related to the teeth. An x-ray should be performed to check for impaction of the molar roots. Many times this can be cleared up by drugs but sometimes the affected molar....and the opposing molar from the other arcade must be removed. I have been fortunate in dealing with these abscesses by drug therapy.

First...never ever under any circumstance open that abscess. Not only is that very painful, it can easily spread the infection or even introduce new bacteria to an area that was contained. That is an old rememdy that borders on barbaric. The problem with treating an abscess is that the root of the problem (literally sometimes) is the core infection of the abscess. This core will usually contain anaerobic bacteria. That type of bacteria does not require oxygen to survive. It is very difficult to identify and to treat. The core infection is surrounded by that very thick pus that rabbits produce. The density of the pus makes drug penetration difficult. Many vets will culture the external infection and identify it correctly and most likely respond to that bacteria correctly. It could be any of the normal aerobic bacteria such as pasteurella, staph, pseudomonas, strep or basically anything. Most vets will respond with something like Baytril, Cipro or Sulfatrim. The realinfection will not be affected....and as I posted in another thread, that is like trying to sink a battleship with a spitball....it ain't gonna work. The anerobes in the core think those drugs are a joke.

I usually respond to abscesses with a "cocktail" of drugs....not only to fight the infection, but to offer pain relief and support vital organs. I usually attack the infection with a pair of antibiotics. I use PenG....it's a combination of two penicillin variants....Procaine and Benzathine. This drug is safe only as an injectable. It should also be buffered with fluids (and since hydration therapy is part of the support, I let one needle stick do two jobs) to reduce the intense burning sensation of this drug and to help prevent some skin issues near the injection site. This drug should be precisely dosed as far as amounts and timing. I also use an oral drug....Zithromax. I have been using this drug for years. Even though it is given by mouth, we have never seen any GI reactions to it. These drugs are very effective in fighting abscesses. I would also use an anti-inflammatory such as Metacam. I dose this drug with a high "loading" dose and follow up with no more than 3 daily doses after that. This drug is a bit rough on the liver and kidneys especially if the animal becomes the least bit dehydrated. And in the early parts of the event, I use narcotics. Buprenex is my favorite. I have also had success with using Tramadol. Here in the US, Buprenex is a controlled drug and many vets are cautious about giving it for home use. Tramadol is not controlled here but still requires a RX. It does require compounding into a suspension. Dosing is critical since problems have been reported using the high end dosing. I have never allowed surgery or any procedure that involves lancing the abscess. We have treated numerous abscesses....mostly jaw but few body abscesses too....and have been successful with this treatment every time. We have only had problems with two out of all the ones we have treated and both of these were due to the infections being mistreated for such a long time before the rabbits came to our rescue. It resulted in bone damage that caused the jaw to fuse together. That is why we act so aggressively on treating abscesses. If you get the infection before it damages the bone....you have a fixed rabbit.

There had also been some work in the US with using antibiotic laced beads placed directly in the abscess. They just plain don't work. It involved several surgeries that were painful and expensive. Many of the early beads contained clindamycin which is not a good thing in a rabbit. I do have dealing with several vets at a major vet school and none of them even attempt the bead treatments now.

If your vets are not familiar with the dosing of the drugs, maybe we can get together by e-mail and I can walk them thru this treatment. Good luck.

Randy

 

[mezeta]

Thanks for all your advice. OMG I am soo stressed at the moment!! Please, Please I need advice as soon as pos! We are due to pick him up at 1:00 today but I just rang my vet and she said, the best advice she can give me is to NOT TAKE HIM!!! I can't leave him there I have totally fallen in love with him!

She said because of the location it is on the neck near the jaw she doesn't think it will get any better, what they normaly do is cut it out but because of the position they wouldn't be able to do that, she said it could be a problem with the teeth especially with him being a Netherland Dwarf and that they have had a 4 year old rabbit and a 8 year old rabbit and they had treatment it didn't work and they had to be put down!! I'm am crying now because I don't know what to do!



She said if the RSPCA will let us take him out without adopting him just to see her then she can have a look and let me know. I doubt they will let us do this and they don't open til 11:00 so I have to wait for them to open to find out. nI don't know what to do this little rabbit is depending on me nd I just don't know what to do..If I don't take him would that mean the RSPCA would class him has unadoptable and put him down?!? I can't leave him there!!!!!!

Please help!

 

[mezeta]

Ok, stress time over! I have spoke to Phil and he agreed we should take him..If we didnt it would almost certainly be a death sentence for him. We are picking him up at 1:00 (the RSPCA wouldnt let us take him just to see our vet but to be honest if our vet said we shouldn't take him I don't think I would have listened anyway). I have spoke to other vets in our area, after a lovely lady pulled me back together and made me see sence (you know who you are, thankyou! :hug We will be taking him to the vets tonight about 6:00 to see what they say but I have rang other vets and they said there is plenty they can do to help .

We are going to make sure we get the best vet and the best treatment for him.

Thanks Randy for your advice and your offer of help. It is appreciated greatly! I will most likely be taking you up on that offer if I can't sort something out with my vet. I have printed off this post so I can show to her.

Thank you so much everyone, sorry I was stressing out there for a min. xx

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

I am so relieved you are finding good help. "Cutting out" that abscess is not what you would want to do. That usually leads to bad things happening. Again as I mentioned, we have seen some huge abscesses come into our rescue and not one has ever been lanced or anything like that. The only thing I have even inserted into an abscess has been a needle to aspirate for culture. One of the worst we have seen is JoJo. He was at a shelter in Florida. The vets there had been treating his abscess with cut Baytril...what a joke. They told the shelter to provide hospice care and monitor quality of life. We got word and some very good people helped with the long trip up to us. He was a bit less than 2kg and had an abscess the size of a golf ball on his lower jaw. He had a rare tag along infection with this problem...peptostreptococcus. We immediately treated with my cocktail and followed up with doxycycline. Today....he is healthy and a very happy bunny. He is also a rare chocolate rex with beautiful colors. He is a great bunny and seems to know what happened....and lives life to the fullest.

This could be a long treatment. And it's possible that the bone structure itself has been damaged and that could bring some complications. Obviously the longer the infection has been going on, the more likely a complication will arise. But the infection needs to be controlled before any damage can be assessed. Just give mea PM if you need anything and I will provide my rescue e-mail if your new vet could use my assistance. Good luck.

Randy

 

[mezeta]

Thanks Randy.

Its fantastic to have some positive feedback. I'm going to show this post to my vet and hopefully they will be able to do this. If there are any problems I will send you a PM if thats still ok. The story about the Chocolate Rex is fantastic news that he is now doing so well.

Darn it is only you lived closer I would be bringing him to you . He seems so full of life I can't beleive the vet told me not to get him. I don't care the cost I just want him better. When he has seen the vet I will let you know what they say and take it from there. Thanks again!!!!!!

 

[TreasuredFriend]

Your soon-to-be family member is lucky You care. We can't all be perfect or help we got bitten. I'm so happy he got out of the shelter. I know you'll do what's best for that guy.