What should a Flemish Giant look like???

[Maukin]

All right, the Farm show is opening up tomorrow and I'm needing some info.

Hubby and I were discussing my rabbit obsession today and he was observing that Lichen was not as "well built" as the last Flemmie we had. Maukin was bigger boned andhad a bigger head. He was also 9 months old when he died and his testicles had dropped and he was well into his "manhood".

Lichen is lighter boned. He is sturdy, his ears are nice and long, he stands well. His rump is nicely sloped. His eyes are bright and intelligent and he is just about the most mischeivous, cheeky little booger that ever was created. (tried to steal bells out of my craft box the other day!! He also comes up behind me while I'm cleaning the litterbox and tries to push me off balance.)

I know that there are different "typiness" types of certain breeds. Like horses for instance. Polish Arabians and Egyptian Arabians are both Arabians, yet they have a slightly different look from each other. Are there lighter boned Flemmies vs heavier boned? I know there was something about a breeder that was breeding Flemmies with heads that were too big and that he was having problems with heart trouble and all. And I read that Flemmies have to have good nutrition or their bones won't be able to bear their weight. (I've switched up to Blue Seal 16%--Thank you Cathy! I found a Blue Seal Dealer! Yay!) I also have been giving them a bit of Calf Manna to give them a boost, so I think I'm doing what I can to maintain their bone structure.

Lichen and Bracken's father was massive , but well structured to me and my unexperienced eyes. I'm just trying to see if this might be a flaw, and if it's just a slight one, can I correct it in the kits by getting a more large boned doe? Does large boned necessarily mean a good thing? Is this lighterboned structure indicative of "pet quality vs Show"? Will this be a flaw that will affect my son showing him in just little country fairs in our area?

Too many questions.... I'll get back to obsessing about cages now that I've gotten that off my chest...

 

[LadyBug]

Ok, i have NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSSED TO LOOK LIKE(just wanted to make that clear before i went any further).

but i thought it might be easyer for the people that do if youcould post some pics of them. and you might check out here-http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15627&forum_id=18

Hope that helps some!

Anna

 

[Maukin]

ok. Feeling a bit computer illiterate at the moment...

How do you post pictures? I see it all the time here and can't seem to figure it out....

 

[okiron]

you have to have them hosted somewhere like photobucket.com first

 

[pamnock]

Maukin, are you attending the farm show? We're leaving tomorrow afternoon, and I'll be judging rabbits there Friday morning.

Unfortunately, we're leaving Friday, so we'll miss all the exhibits But, I hope to get done early enough to catch a tour of the Capitol Building.

A Flemish Giant should be heavy boned. If he's very fine boned, you'd ideally like to find a larger boned breeding pair. Fine, thin bone is a disqualification in Flemish (medium bone is a fault), so you don't want to use fine/med. boned animals in your breeding program.

Also, some finer boned animals don't make minimum senior weight (13/14 lbs.)

Pam

 

[LadyBug]

hehehehe-i'm still trying towork the kinks out of my photo posting!:shock:

Anna

 

[BlueGiants]

As Pam said, the description of a Flemish includes "well balanced" with good heavy bone (and I'm not saying that mine are anywhere near the best by any stretch of the imagination!).

We all work to achieve the ideal according to the Breed Standard (or come as close as we can!). And the best way to get close is to breedrabbits that are closeto the Standard to start with.

Maukin certainly has the personality of a Flemish! LOL! The house jester! Are you taking him to the show? Will he be judged? If so, Please listen to the judges comments and if they use comment cards, make sure you get yours after the judging. Sometimes it's best to get other opinions. We all get "hutch blind"... we look at the same rabbits all the time and get used to the way they look. Look at any other Flemish that are shown. Ask other breeders if they would show you their rabbits, feel the rabbits front leg (if you can). That will give you an indication of the bone density of that rabbit. Compare it to Maukin.

This doe was given highcomments for bone, but she could use more roundness over the hips )amongst other things.... (for scale, the carpet she's sitting on is 32" long). Her color is a little off (due to moult, note the brownish tint over her back). She shows well and has won a lot of Best of Variety's (Blue), and has 4 legs (she's "Granded"). Flemish Perfection is a work in progress!

Have a great time at the Farm Show! Let us know how it goes!

 

[Maukin]

Grr... have the figure the photo thing out...

This is where inexperience plays a big part. The breeder I went to told me that she shows her Flemmies all the time. And I believed her. I'm still learning. I'm looking more at the sweet qualities of the Flemish, the gentleness and general docility of the breed. Lichen, even though he can be skittish at times, follows my kids around the house to see how they are doing and if they have anything good to eat. As I was just writing, he was climbing up the leg of my four year old, trying to give him kisses. (Lichen is almost as big as my four year old when standing on his hind legs!!).

I see many advertisements for "pet quality". I assume that pet quality means that they are not perfect breed standard. Can one simply breed for "pet quality" standards? I understand about breed standards and all. Would I be diluting the gene pool?

I plan on getting a better pair after I "get my feet wet" and gain experience (as I do all the time, this forum has been invaluble with all the varied people here).

 

[BlueGiants]

I'm sure she shows her rabbits, but not every rabbit in a litter will be "show quality". Some will not have the right colored nails or the right height (rise) over the hips, or the proper undercoat color... but with controlled breeding (with an eye to the Standard) you can lessen those occurances. But you will still get some that don't make Senior weight (as Pam noted), or one that doesn't have the best ear set, or ... whatever. Those are the ones that are sold (if the breeder is honest) as "Pet Quality" or "Brood Quality" (depending on what's wrong and what caused it).

They have the most wonderful personalities... gentle and playful. That alone makes them special and a joy to keep. Get a hands on opinion of Maukin... you may be able to find a doe that compensates for whatever minor faults he has. Or don't breed him and heends up being the best house rabbit you ever had!

 

[Maukin]

Cathy was writing as I was writing apparently...

Actually, my house jester is Lichen, not Maukin. Maukin passed in November. He was my first Flemmie and the start of my obsession.

I would love to show Lichen just to see what people think of his type. But I can't hold him. He allows me to do just about anything else to him including grab his tail. He and I will play and he will lie down beside me and flop out while I'm on the computer. But pick him up???? Not on your life Buster!!! So I'm grooming up little brother Bracken for that. Today Bracky went with me to pick up my four year old from preschool. He sat in the passenger seat and looked out the window.

Now THAT'S pet quality!!

 

[okiron]

All flemmies should look like this :

But I might be a little bias because I love the little turd

 

[Maukin]

Aww... All these pics are gorgeous!!

I'm hoping that I can find a doe that will be a bit more heavy than Lichen. As I said before though, his parents were massive creatures. I wonder if I should just give him a bit more time to develop??

He's also losing his rather ugly baby coat and turning into a fine steely grey. And he's developing a much nicer personality. The Flemmieness (??) is coming through at last!! He was a terrible infant! Not nasty, but very standoffish. I think he's learning that people are not bad creatures, but can actually be kind of fun to hang out with. Especially since Mom has a bowl of raisens on her desk at all times

Bracky is a bit distant a lot. I think it's because Lichen is so dominant and tends to bully Brack a bit. I try to give Bracken time on his own without Lichen pushing him, grooming him, nudging him, what have you. I think it might be those sexually mature characteristics and the time they have as bond mates might be short.

Bracken is a lovely sandy. He was also a bit of an ugly baby. I was calling him more of a mud than a sand. He is very sturdy as well. He kind of reminds me of a Labrador puppy with his chunky little legs and BIG feet. He stands very well underneath himself, ears nice and long, almost falling forward at times. He's three months old now.

Right now, the two of them are lying like bookends, flopped out beside each other. The cat (who thinks he's either a rabbit, or them other thangs is some UGGGGLYYYY cats) is flopped out beside the rabbits and I'm sitting a mere foot away from the whole crew.

Maybe I'll get to see some of you at the show and we can go and check out the girls together. I need a doe a least 4 months old. I'm not going there gung ho, all stops out, hellbent to buy something. That's why I started this thread, so I might get an idea what I should be looking for to help with some of the faults that I'm sure exist within my precious boy (though to me, he's perfect). I know that the Rabbit Show in Lebanon is only a month away. We'll see. I have faith that I'll find what I'm looking for. Or it will find me.

 

[BlueGiants]

OH my! I'm so sorry I got the boys names mixed up! My bad! Please tell the boys I'm sorry...

As of now, I'm planning to go to Lebanon. It would be great to meet you there! (As long as my husbands surgery isn't scheduled for that week...)

 

[Maukin]

I hope so. I'll be there, and we have a date for coffee.

 

[Maukin]

And I want to just smooch all over that little face right there in Okiron's post!!!!!!

 

[gentle giants]

Maukin wrote:

Grr... have the figure the photo thing out...

This is where inexperience plays a big part. The breeder I went to told me that she shows her Flemmies all the time. And I believed her. I'm still learning.

Ok, she may show them, but are they winnning? If she has a website, check that out, whatever she has won will likely be posted there.

I see many advertisements for "pet quality". I assume that pet quality means that they are not perfect breed standard. Can one simply breed for "pet quality" standards? I understand about breed standards and all. Would I be diluting the gene pool?
I would not recomend breeding for jsut pets. There are so many "pet quality" rabbits our there in shelters already. What most (good) breeders recomend is to breeding to improve the breed.
I plan on getting a better pair after I "get my feet wet" and gain experience (as I do all the time, this forum has been invaluble with all the varied people here).

Make sure you do lots of research on all the differnet breeders around, see who has been breeding the longest and who is winning the shows. I know that sounds a little shallow, but it's a fairly good marker of what kind of quality you will be getting. You may have to drive a little farther or pay a little more, but it will most definatly be worth it in the long run.

 

[Maukin]

I'll be at the farm show tommorrow checking out the judging. I agree, if I'm going to this, I need to do it right. The worst thing to happen is that I neuter Lichen and start my breeding program from scratch.