What in the heck is she doing??

[irishmist]

Gracie is gonna be the death of me!

First off, she kind of won't get into the nest box, she just puts herhead in and down on the bedding. She gets the kitsall worked up and they are climbing on her til they fall out of thebox, then she runs away leaving the kits scrambling. Then Ihave to go and put them back in the box again. Gracie comesback and thumps her foot, then jumps into the nest box the kitsscramble and she jumps out. They actually started swawkingthey are getting so mad. Now she is pulling hair outagain. What is up with her... should I be concerned?

 

[BlueGiants]

I just loggdd on... can you fill mein? When did Gracie have the babies? Howmany? What breed? Has she fed them yet(atall?)?

 

[irishmist]

she had the babies 3 daysago. It was an accidental breeding between a full dutch and across. She had 4 babies. She has been feeding them up untilnow.

 

[BlueGiants]

When was the last time she fed them, or when did you last see them with full bellies?

 

[irishmist]

about 6 this morning... they are looking pretty slim right now

 

[BlueGiants]

Take her out and just check hernipples. Make sure she's not infected or sore. Youcan gently squeeze a nipple tomake sure she still has milk.

I'd pick her up and put her in the nest box on top of thebabies. Hold her gently and pet her head, keep her in placeand give the babies time to nurse... 4-5 minutes is usuallyenough. Talk to her and keep her calm.

Check the babies afterward and see if they have fullbellies... I try to give my girls a little treatasan "apology" for having to do this...

 

[irishmist]

ok thanks will give it a try

 

[irishmist]

I could not get any milk out the area around theteat is red and puffy, there is no heat that I can feel. Itried holding her down and doing as you said, but she got reallystressed and started to chatter. The kits were going at herlike they had not eat in a week.

 

[BlueGiants]

She may be starting with mastitis... she may notbe able to feed them... These babies are still soyoung. I'm new to the forum and hesitateto make suggestions. Pam or Gypsy would be betterones to ask... I'd takeGracie to the vet to make sure sheisn't getting an infection.

You can try feeding them a formula, but personally have not had verygood luck raising a litter on formula (although God knows Itry!). In the past I have used a commercial formula called"Just Born" with collostrum (available at Petco). But I'veheard a lot of people make their own. The babies should be OKtil morning. Maybe someone else has some ideas.

I'm so sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[irishmist]

Thank you so much anyway.. we will just have to wait until morning to see.. again thanks

Susan

 

[BlueGiants]

Forgive me... I'm not trying to discourageyou... The formula is a Kitten replacement formula and I didraisea couple oflitters on itsuccessfully. They need to be fed twice a day. Iuse a feeding syringe and meaure out 5cc to start. Over thenext week, increase it to about 15 cc., then 25 cc, Istarted giving themrolled oats around3 1/2 weeks as solid food for them to eat. At 4 weeks, Istart mixing in pellets.

You need to keep their heads up, so as to avoid getting formula intheir noses. After each is fed, I used a wad of cotton dippedin warm water to wash their faces and bellies. If the cottonturns yellow/brown, it means they are urinating... a very goodsign. You have to be their Mommy now.

You may also want to wait til morning. Gracie may change hermind and feed them herself. But don't wait too long, for thebabies sake...

 

[irishmist]

No you did not discourage me in the least... I am just glad someone was here to answer me... I really do appreciate it!

 

[BlueGiants]

Thanks for being sokind.Yesterday we just lost a litter of 7 Mini Rexthat were born 3 days premature and the mom refused tonurse. There wasn't anything I could do, they refused tosuckle. I even tried them on 4 other does I have (that I KNOWhave milk!). I'll never get used to losing them.

 

[irishmist]

I am sorry for your loss. I reallyhope that I don't have to go thru that. This is gonna be myone and only litter, and this one was so unplanned. My maleis like a phantom, he just kind of slinks into the room and most of thetime you never see him. I can't tell you how many times Ihave found him in the closet!

Gracie has her head in the nest box again.. it almost seems like shejust wants to play with them. She is the odd one out in atrio. My other female hates her and the male.. well he likedher a little too much!

Will just wait it out until morning.

Susan

 

[LuvaBun]

How are things going, Susan? I don't have anyexperience with nursing does, but it could be that Gracie has aninfection and is feeling sore. Hoping things are OK

Jan

 

[TinysMom]

Hi! Don't know if you remember or readmy post about Charlie, our peanut. We used kitten replacerformula with him and we used an eyedropper or syringe. Weusually had to put a bit of formula on our finger at first and try toget him to lick it off - after about the 2nd day - as soon as we pickedhim up and held him in a certain position - he knew we were trying tofeed him and he'd try to eat.

If it were me and I was doing it again - I'd use a bit of unflavoredpedialyte with the formula...maybe 2 parts formula, 1 part water& 1 part pedialyte. This way they would be gettingsome electrolytes or whatever that is in pedialyte. We diduse pedialyte with Charlie towards the end but he was just too much ofa peanut.

I'm sure Gypsy or Pam or other folks will have better tips for you though!

Peg

 

Hi Susan .

Boy rough going , sorry washaving some issues here yesterdayand lastnight , wont bore ya with details .

How are the babies this morning ? HasMomma decided to feed them ? It soundslike she may have a touchof Mastitis setting in, try using a wram cloth onhertummy to see if you can getmilk to flow in . Chances are she isgoing to need to see a Vet .You may haveto hand feed If they cant getthe mastittis under controlquickly enough , and yet yetmay be the choice your going tohaveto make . Mastitis,basically sours the moms milk, making it taste not good ,even tho hungry the babies maynot suckle .

Pedialitefor the babies,don't cut it withwater use it full strength for5 days use is instead of regular water .after 5 days you can start mixing itwith water .

Blue Giants has good advice,listen to her also . Its veryhard to hand raise babies but now thatthey are 4 days old it should bea bit easier , especially now that theyare past that very newborn stage . Hold themstright upright , index finger behindtheir head , put a drop ofthe formular on your finger to give them theidea to eat , do the feedings rightnow drop for drop , too much ata time they will asperate . toolittle at a time and they willrefuse to eat .

This hand feeding is like adouble edged sword . Basically its adamned if you do and a damned if you dontscenario , But If you find you have too, Do try . If the Litter isntweakend you have agood shot at them thriving .Its a best case scenariobecause you caught it early enough to beable take care of them .

Do get her to a Vetto be usre maybe withAntibiotics quicklygiven she willbe able to nurde them herself .

Blue Giants ! Feel free to jump in andlend the expertise here Girl .The more help the better , especially incases like this ,

 

[pamnock]

The doe will only feed her kits once ortwicea day. You may not be able to extract any milkfrom the teats if the doe is nervous. The "let down" hormoneresponse must kick in for the milk to flow. It also takesabout 3 days for the milk to come in -- colostrum is being producedthose first few days. The "puffy" area you are seeing aroundthe teats may just be the full milk glands.

Try to get them to nurse from the doe if possible -- hand-feeding can result in the babies aspirating the formula.

I set the doe on my lap on a towel and give her a little treat an pether to relax her so the milk lets down. I place the babiesunderneath to nurse.

Pulling out hair again isn't unusual -- good sign that the hormones aredoing their job. It either got a little cooler, or her milkis coming in.

Bacterial and viral infections can also be a cause of loss in young kits.

Pam

 

[BlueGiants]

Good Morning!

Just checking in to see how the babies are doing! Was Graciefeeling better this morning? (Ummm, morecooperative?) Pam is right, if I have to put the moms on topof the babies, I feed her little pieces of fresh comfrey, or even acouple of Cherrio's (Hey! What ever it takes to keep her calmand comfortable!), and pet them and tell them how good they are... youknow.

It's a good sign they made it this far. But if any ofGracie's nipples feel hot or she has any indication of infection, don'tlet her nurse them. (Sometimes even though the milk doesn'ttaste good, they are so hungry, they'll drink it anyway. Thatwill make them sick. They have very littll defense againstthat bacteria.

One more thought accured to me last night, are you letting either ofthe other bunnies in the room or near the litter? Being asGracies is sort of "third man out" in the triangle, she can getintimidated by the other doe.

This isn't the best "first time" experience I would wishforyou. I'm sorry you have to go through it. (It seemsso easy when every thing goes right, and so horriblewhen itdoesn't.)

 

[irishmist]

SHE FED THEM!!

Last night about 1 a.m. She just hopped on the nest and stayed therefor about 4 minutes, and hopped off.. There were four fat little babiessome flat on their backs so content practically snoring!

When I woke up this morning I guess she had fed them again cuz theystill have those gorgeous bodies. I checked Gracie and theredness is gone, the swelling is less and there is no heat from theteats.

After thinking on it for awhile, (kept me up most of thenight) I seriously think she may have been trying to play agame with them. Because she is not bonded, she may be bondingto them, and was trying to initiate some sort of play. Iprobably panicked, I usually do.

I really want to thank all of you for your answers andadvice. I really do appreciate it more than you will everknow. I love you guys, for all that you know and do.

I document everything in my life both in pics and writings. My next entry has been titled:

10 REASONS WHY I SHOULD NOT BECOME A RABBIT BREEDER!

This is a pic of what she was doing to the babies last night: