Vents Disease

[Alana]

I’m in UK, can somebody advise on the cheapest treatment for vents disease in a whole herd ?
I can administer injections as we do our vaccinations but need information on the type of Penicillin required, where to purchase cheaply and dosage ?

 

[JBun]

The antibiotic used to treat treponematosis(VD) is injectable only (never orally) penicillin g procaine/benzathine. I think what is available to you is depocillin, which is the pen g procaine(short acting) without the addition of the longer acting pen g benzathine. If you can get the duplocillin combination pen g procaine/benzathine, that's the preferred one, but I'm not sure it's available there. Or if you can get the two separately then it's equal amounts of both given so you are using a total of 40,000-60,000IU/kg(40-60mg/kg). If you can get both the long and short acting, then injections are given every 5-7 days for at least 3 weeks. If you can only get the short acting pen g procaine, then injections need to be given daily for a week.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Treponema_Inf_Rabbits.htm (there are a few typos in this so cross check medication info)
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syph_gen.html

There's also dosing info here from The Textbook of Rabbit Medicine(Varga).
http://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Common_drug_dosages_for_rabbits

I don't believe it's over the counter there, so you would need to get a prescription from a vet, then you could order it online for a cheaper price usually.

It's very important to prevent any oral consumption, so if there is any leakage at the injection site it needs to be cleaned off thoroughly. Feed good quality grass hay(not moldy, no noxious weeds) and a good probiotic. Don't feed high starch/sugary foods. This is all to prevent enterotoxemia occurring. At the first sign of diarrhea, get to a rabbit vet immediately.

 

[Alana]

Thankyou so much.
Thats a very informative reply and a real help.
Ive the culprit buck ( bought in from another breeder ) booked in to my rabbit savvy vet for Tuesday but as I will need to do all my does and a young buck who’s been in immediate contact its going to be costly to treat unless I can source meds online and as you say, get a prescription from the vet.
Ive sourced Depocillin from an online company in 100ml bottle.

When purchasing needles, I assume the 22 guage would be appropriate ? They come in a mm length which is totally confusing.. Any idea on which one I would need ?

Thanks again
Alana x

 

[Alana]

I only feed good quality hay amd limit sugars but Ive ordered some Probiotics on recommend from a friend from the same company.

I also have two nursing does.
Both have been in contact with the offending buck but show no signs of VD. Should I treat them both or wait and treat them later with babies ? Luckily both only singleton litters ( one in each )

 

[JBun]

The first thing is you want to be absolutely sure it's VD you are dealing with. Don't want to go through all this effort and risk to treat and have it not be the cause of the symptoms you are seeing.

Yes, 22g needles, 1 inch length(whatever that converts to in mm). If you have problems drawing it up or injecting, letting it sit and warm up for up to 10 minutes, can make it easier. Also some people will draw with a 20g then inject with a new 22g needle if there seem to be any issues drawing from the bottle, or difficulty injecting after drawing up due to the needle dulling. Your vet really should show you all this and tell you what needles/syringes you need to buy.

Also ask your vet about when you should treat the nursing does as there can be a possible negative effect on the babies(from wildpro link above). I myself would wait to treat those rabbits until the babies have been weaned. Keep those does and babies isolated, allowing no contact with the other rabbits and washing hands/changing clothes in between any contact you have with them. Then once the babies are weaned they should all be ok to be treated, though waiting til the babies are 8 weeks or older. I would want to try and give them til they were 12 weeks before treating.

Even though pen g given by injection is considered relatively safe and doesn't usually have side effects, it can happen in some instances so there is always the risk. I would keep a really close eye on changes in appetite and their droppings. If side effects do occur it will usually start with the rabbit seeming withdrawn or subdued, with lack of appetite, and you may or may not see loose stool. Death can happen in a matter of hours, so it's really important to get treatment started immediately to have any chance at saving them. I would want both metronidazole and questran to be given, along with plenty of fluids(which is needed for the questran to be effective).
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Clostridial_enteritis_rabbits.htm

One thing I've noticed is that sometimes UK vets will want to treat giving one injection a week for 3 weeks, of the depocillin(short acting pen g procaine). That would be the wrong treatment. The depocillin needs to be given every day for a week. Only when using the long acting pen g benzathine should it be given once a week. So if your vet wants to only give depocillin once a week for 3 weeks, I would suggest showing them the reference in Varga's book about giving it daily for a 5 days(though I would want to go a week). I believe the BSAVA book also has the same info about treating every day for a week with the pen g procaine.

 

[majorv]

Yes, pen g stays in the frig and is thick at that state. We would do what jbun mentioned and draw it using a larger gauge needle, then switch to the smaller gauge to give the injection. You don’t want the bottle to sit out too long or it will start losing its effectiveness

 

[Alana]

Vet seen and confirmed VD.
Depocillin in a 100ml bottle given on prescription.
Recommended dose 0.13ml although hasnt clarified if thats the doseage per rabbit
( average 3lb-3-8lb mini lop ) OR if that is per kg rabbit. Any ideas ?!

 

[JBun]

The bottle of Depocillin has 300,000IU per ml(300mg/ml) of pen g procaine, correct? Dosage to treat VD is 40,000-80,0000IU per kg(40-80mg/kg) per links posted above. I would stick to the lower end dosage of 40,000-60,000IU. So the dose the vet gave you would be 39,000IU, which would be the dose for a 1 kg rabbit. So I would assume that the instructions are 0.13ml per kg. Are the instructions to give daily for a week?

 

[Alana]

The Vet insisted I use the once a week dose for three weeks, however as I have the 100ml bottle, I can change this to the daily dose for 7days if I can work out the correct dose, which I cant seem to figure out here.
He supplied needles so thats good.

Basing this on an average 3lb 8 mini lop ( max weight I have in a doe ) I assume he meant the 0.13ml as the weekly dose PER RABBIT not be kg. Does this sound correct ?
Im rubbish at math so this is why Im struggling to work this out.

 

[JBun]

Dose is 40,000IU/kg(40mg/kg, 1mg = 1,000IU, from wildpro link), there is 300,000IU per ml(300mg/ml) in the bottle(check your bottle to ensure this is correct), so that comes down to 30,000IU per 0.1ml(one tenth ml), so 0.13ml would be 39,000IU, which would mean that is meant to be given per kg to get the needed 40,000IU/kg dose. So for a 3 lb(rounding up to 1.5 kg) rabbit that would be 60,000IU needed, so 0.2ml(two tenths of an ml) injection. For an 8 lb(3.7kg) rabbit it would be 148,000IU which I would just round up to 150,000IU, which would be 0.5ml(five tenths of an ml) injection. Remember injection only, and that 0.1ml is one tenth(basically a drop or two), not to be mistaken for one full ml.

If you aren't sure, just call your vet and ask if the 0.13ml is per kg. If you need to convince your vet that it needs to be given daily(say, in case one bottle isn't going to be enough to treat your herd and you need a second bottle), show the reference in the 'Textbook of Rabbit Medicine' by Varga, or BSAVA may also have this info(the older book did).

 

[Alana]

I showed him the reference. He still maintained that he has had success treating once a week for three weeks. In fact the twycross zoo reference has his signature on it as he was overseeing the article.
As Ive got pregnant doe’s , which will have to wait until babies are as suggested, 12wks before receiving treatment, I’ll be able to collect another prescription in a few weeks, the vet was fine about that.
Im wish the doseage was as clear ‍