Territorial over cage

[toyabrooke]

Hi Everyone,

When we got Poe we had a few little problems with him dealing with the stress of moving through being too territorial of his room he is in. After learning how to be dominant over him so he can learn who is boss through picking him up supportively but dominantly until he stopped having a hissy fit, then cuddling him and calming him and only letting him back down when he was calm. If he went to bite us or charge at us or anything of that nature, this process would be repeated.

There have been a few little territorial incidents since then, but only small and very easily fixed. Today however, when going to pick up out of his cage to let him out into the room, he bit and charged at me. I did the same thing as always, lifted him up to let him know who is in charge, calmed him, and put him back in his cage. I then tried multiple times to pick him back up again form inside his house, and he did the same thing over and over again. Even when I just put my hand near his house or his food he would charge out. I understand it is his house with his food and he needs to feel secure, but I know he also needs to understand that even though it is his house and his cage, I am in charge not him.

He does this a little bit when laying on my desk because it is his favourite spot in the whole room, but nothing as bad as his cage. In the mornings he does this a little bit in his cage, he doesnt like me to clean it or get near his food, so I have my boyfriend hold him while I clean it to avoid that.

What else can I do? He is getting fixed ASAP so will this fix it or are there other things I can do to minimise this? He seems generally happy other than these things - he can be nursed in my arms for hours, he lays down with his legs out stretched on the desk and floor, and doesn't seem to mind sniffing around me when I sit with him.

Things have just seemed to go forward 2 steps and then back 5... I did only get him a week ago so I now it's a slow process, it is just quite upsetting to see things be so good and then suddenly bad again.

 

[Ape337]

Hi!
There's a really good article on agressive rabbits in the library. If I was tech savvy enough I'd post a link...but

Figuring out whether your rabbit is agressive bc of sexual tension or just bc he's grumpy will tell you whether the neutering will fix the problem or not. Usually if he's not breaking the skin when he bites, and if he's circling your feet, or quietly grunting, or spraying you, that's sexual frustration.

I'm definitely not an expert by any means. There are great people on here that can give you way more advice and info than I can. The library is a good place to start.

Good luck with Napoleon, sounds like he's living up to his name! Smooth sailing with his surgery too ray:

 

[toyabrooke]

Thanks for that! Well he definitely broke the skin.. so I think it was more of a 'this is my burrow so stay out' kind of thing. He hasn't been this bad yet, so maybe after more days of getting attached to it he is more more aggressive about protecting it. I have read around that being protective of their cage is normal and the best thing to do is not just jolt your hand in and scare them so maybe I will give that a go too.

Other than his little bouts of biting he is a beautiful and good natured bunny. His name certainly is perfect for him though

 

[LakeCondo]

He's still settling in, but I'd move the food bowls around, so he knows you set the rules, not him.
And rather than picking him up in his cage, you might get a box for him to jump into, then lift the box.

 

[kjm84]

My rabbit is territorial of his cage too. I never lift him out of his cage, I put a box by it for him to jump out of on his own. I also never clean up his cage with him in it, or else he bites (otherwise never ever bites). He's fine with me reaching in to pet him or put food in. Definitely protective of his poops I'd say, limit reaching into the cage while he is in there except to feed your bunny.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Neutering will help with some of it. But since you only got him a week ago, I recommend leaving off with picking him up so much (at least until you've bonded more). He probably associates your hands with being picked up and "disciplined," hence the charging and boxing when he sees them. Especially in his cage.

Incidentally, picking him up is not the most effective way to discipline him. There are more effective ways, but I don't think he needs discipline, I think he needs to learn to trust you. Work on bonding with him and I think you'll see the aggression subside.

Also, I recommend training him to hop in and out of his cage on his own (I recommend this for all rabbits!). Gus HATES being picked up out of his cage, but he'll hop right out as soon as I open it and hop right back in when it's time to go back. By timing cage time with treat or pellet time, rabbits learn that going back into their cage is a good thing and look forward to it. I know Gus sure does!

Hope that helps!

Rue

 

[BunMommaD]

Cookie "charged" my bby once when we first brout him home and he was trying to pick him up out of his cage... W have since never pick him up to tke him out of his cage and just open it and let him in and out and we don't really ever pick him up unless absolutely necessary and we've never had another issue... Just our very limited experience... Good luck!

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Sounds like normal non neutered bunny behavior. Good luck, and do remember that you are the Alpha.

 

[eclairemom]

My Scamper turned into a demon when he hit puberty. He would try and take my hand off anytime I needed to pick up poo. Neutering fixed that pretty quickly.

 

[toyabrooke]

Thanks so much everyone for all the advice. Unfortunately, our vert cancelled on us so he won't be fixed for another few days.

I have started just letting him hop out of his cage rather than pick him up and things seem to have gotten worse... now whenever we are in the room and he can see us near his cage he runs up to the wire and bites it. I thought at first he was just happy to see us, but when you stick your fingers through to give him a rub on the head (something I could do a few days ago), he bites you. I have stopped doing that now because I thought maybe he was just being protective, but now when he is let out he follows everywhere I walk very very closely, and has now started attacking when anything on the desk moves or is put down when he is on it.

I know this is all probably just normal behaviour for a rabbit that isn't fixed yet, but he is still only 4 months old! Our English Angora was even older than him when he got fixed and showed not 1 of these aggressive tendencies.

What else can I do for the general aggression other than just sit and wait until he is fixed? I tried squealing when he bit me, but that also had no affect. All that seems to work (for about 3 minutes) is picking up him behind his shoulders, holding him out from my body if he has a little hissy fit, and then cuddling him close for a few minutes and then putting him back down.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Actually, that doesn't sound like normal unfixed rabbit behaviour to me. Intact males can be nippy, but in my experience they aren't this aggressive. It really sounds to me like he's got aggression issues. And I really think every time you pick him up, it's actually having the opposite affect. Rabbits are aggressive when they're afraid. So you need to work on gaining trust. Have you read the thread on bonding with your bunny? Maybe just let him alone for a day or two. He may need longer to settle in before you start trying to bond with him.

I really wish we had a rabbit whisperer here on the forum.

Rue

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Another thought: Could he be in pain of some sort? I know this last week Gus has been just miserable. He's bitten me more in a week than he has in his whole life. He's been suffering with bad gas. Even just petting him would earn me a bite. When he's not gassy, though, he's his usual happy self.

Hope that helps!

Rue

 

[toyabrooke]

He doesn't seem to be. When he isn't being territorial he is as happy as larry - laying down beside me, grooming himself and he even does those big jumps on the air too!

Why I pick him up when he has bitten me is because I thought that would send a message of dominance to him. When he is being cuddled, he grinds his teeth a little bit (not a lot which I know is bad, but just a little which I read is a good thing that means they are calm).

What can I do to show dominance though instead of that? When he bites, I have to do something don't I? When we did nothing on the first night we got him, we couldn't even get near him he was so crazy. Then the next day when we were taught how to pick him up to show dominance, he lost that crazyness immediately. Now though, he seems just a little bit crazy but still enough to bite and be very territorial over his cage area and his desk and not really be liked to be petted on the ground. Whenever I go to pet him from the front of his face he puts his head back to bite, but when it is from the back of him he is fine and he loves to be nursed.

So lost right now!!

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Okay, now I'm as confused as you are! He lays beside you and grooms himself? That's a sign of a happy, content rabbit, who trusts you.

The other behaviour you've described, though, sounds like a rabbit who's afraid of being picked up.

I'm not sure what you mean by: "we couldn't even get near him he was so crazy." Part of bonding is allowing the rabbit to come to you, not you always going to the rabbit when you want to pick it up, hold it, pet it, whatever. Not saying it should always be on the rabbit's terms, but they learn to trust you more when they feel like they have more control.

Also, who showed you how to pick him up to show dominance? A vet? A breeder? I've never heard anyone recommend that before. I know for rabbits who kick and scratch when they're picked up, I often recommend holding them until they're calm before putting them down, but that's so they learn that being calm will result in what they want, versus kicking and scratching.

Hope that helps!

Rue

 

[toyabrooke]

Yeah that is what we did - we made him be calm before he was allowed to go back down.

When we first got him, he was normal and nervous etc. as any rabbit would be, but then suddenly as time went on during the night, something set him off and he was suddenly running around biting and attacking - we couldn't get near him in the sense that we could barely get inside our room because he was running at us, biting us, and then if we tried to pick him up or touch him to calm him he would attack.

In regards to the holding, no it wasn't a rabbit expert or anything but my mum is a wildlife education person here and knows a lot about that sort of stuff - it seemed to be working until now I'm definitely open to other suggestions though - we are still learning how to adapt to a sort of bunny that isn't like our English Angora who needed no training or work what so ever because he just loves everyone and everything We don't hurt him or anything, but it was more to control him before he was nursed and then rewarded with being put down.

And I am confused too! See what I mean? He seems SO happy! But still very dominant or certain areas of the room such as his cage and my desk, and doesnt particularly like to be petted on the ground (if my hand is too close to his face he will prepare to bite, but if it is from behind he is okay before he scampers off to sniff more things and explore), but can lay in my arms for hours.

I am thinking that most of this is just hormones? There seems to be so many conflicting emotions going on that all I can assume is he is happy but sexually frustrated and feeling that he has to be in charge and dominant to survive? Still it doesnt make much sense that he is shoring so many sings of being a happy bunny....

 

[funnybunnymummy]

I'm sorry, I had to laugh when you described his first night. Sounds like "the witching hour" as some call it. Was this after about 10 or 11 pm? Bunnies can get pretty, er, spunky that time of night. And an hormonal teenaged bun can be the worst.

I've re-read this thread several times now and I think he's exhibiting mostly hormonal behaviours. I still recommend leaving off with picking him up as discipline. You want being picked up to be a positive experience, not a negative one. If he'll lay beside you, then just teach him to hop up next to you on his own. Or sit on the floor beside him.

Hope the neutering goes well!

Rue

 

[toyabrooke]

Yes that is EXACTLY the right description! And it was late, which is why I thought his hyper running around was normal-ish until he started attacking

Are there any other ways of him learning that my desk for example, is mine and not his? Whenever I move something on the desk, or put my hand close to him he will lunge for it! The only way I know how to deal with that is picking him up, holding him out from my body for a few seconds and then nursing him for a while. What is something else I could do instead (if you know that is - sorry for the bombarding of questions!), when he bites or shows that behaviour?

He used to HATE being picked up, but now he barely ever shows any sings of struggling at all even after he has been naughty and im trying to use it as a kind of dominating action! He is too smart for his own good I think!

Thank you so much Rue for all your advice. I love him to death, but seeing how angry he gets make me so upset too

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Is he on top of the desk or under it? Either way, I think he's trying to claim it by driving you off of it or away from it. You need to do that to him to show him who's boss. Just push him away from the desk or off of it. (Obviously don't dump him on the floor! ) This is what another more dominant rabbit would do to him.

Another thought I just had was: Could he be biting you to get you to pick him up and cuddle him? You mentioned that while you're holding him, he'll grind his teeth like he's enjoying it. If that's so, then picking him up when he bites is rewarding the biting behaviour! I say bunny time out in the cage instead!

And I'll agree whole-heartedly, rabbits ARE too smart for their own good!

Rue

 

[toyabrooke]

Ohh okay yeah maybe. So I will just give him time out when he bites? That sounds like a good idea! I will also try the shoving thing when he is on the desk but will make sure he doesn't fall.

He does love to be nursed I think. He gets sick of it after a while, but he seems very content to nuzzle up to me and grind his teeth in pleasure.

Thank you so much again! I will keep you updated on the progress And hopefully he will be fixed soon! I know this is going to be one of the main things to minimise all of this behaviour, so it is very frustrating to anxiously wait until it is done!

Toya

 

[ZRabbits]

Sorry you are going through this with your new bunny. It's always surprising when you find out how individuals they really are.

I've found that my boys have a settling period of though I think they are settled, something might change (ie move of furniture, move of a book across the room, a new boundary set up) will throw them off and they will get tenative and a bit skittish. But once they get used to it, they seem to calm down.

Now you are in the teenage months where dominance rears it's ugly head. With the nipping, I've always said "Ouch" real loudly so they know they did something. But don't poke them. I found out the hard way with Kreacher about poking. I tried the "dog whisper" tactic. Kreacher did NOT like the poke and hissed and got more agressive. I found that using my whole hand to guide them back is working.

The neutering will help, but it's not a cure all for nipping and dominance. Time and patience, with a lot of "just being there" will help. It is kind of disconcerting to see such a sweet creature charge, or box or even hear the growls.

But remember bunnies do grow up to adults. Keep working with him. It will get better. It's hard to adjust when you got such an easy bunny to start out with. Kreacher, "Mr. Attitude" taught me well. lol

K