Taking Sammy to the vet *many questions - opinions needed*...

[undergunfire]

Sammy is *our* first dog, and we have our first vet visit this Saturday. I have a few questions...

What do you bring in a sample of their poo for? We weren't asked to bring in a poo sample, is this normal?

What are your views on getting shots for dogs? We are getting Sammy a rabies shot, for sure, but what are your views on getting the rest of the shots? Sammy is 1 year old...do you know what type of shots I should be expecting him to have to get? I know there is lots of people who get shots and lots of people who do not. There is a lady on my rat forum who goes all natural with her Beagle as possible (even feeds raw only) and does not get him shots. I have been meaning to ask her why. I know lots of time people do not get their kitties shots because there is controversy of "Does it cause illness or shortened life span later on?"

Also...heart worm and flea and tick meds? I am one who doesn't like to put chemicals into my pets. There is also lots of controversy on the topic of to use or not to use flea meds and if you use them, what kinds.

Living in my area of Arizona...I don't think I have even seen a mosquito here, and from my understanding...that is how heart worm is spread? Sammy is an indoor dog. We don't go on walks often (er, really not at all) and he goes outside only to go potty (while on the leash). We try to get him to the dog park 1-2 times a month for a run around with other dogs. He still gets plenty of exercise, though, as he is tiny compared to the size of our house.


I am sure if I ask my vet, she will say definitely *yes* to shots, heart worm meds, and flea meds. I just would like to know your guy's opinions of it. I know the "normal" is to get all the shots and every thing, but it seems there is lots of questions on is it the right thing to do? I know even some parents of human children wonder if shots are the right thing to do.

 

[Mrs. PBJ]

I follow a min vac protacal.

They get two sets of puppy shots then thats all.

They get rabies every 3 years because its required by law. I feed all natural dog food cant get this at wal mart pet co anywhere.

I would use heartguard you are in a warm area. Yes heartworms is spread my mosqitos. If he is not on heartguard already you might al;ready have a problem.

This Forum is the rquivilent of RO for Dogs.

Leerburg.com

Its harder to join as the mods have to aprove you but you can look thru the forum with out being a member. Someone thats gets on Ro told me about ro thru leerburg I asked about rabbits they gave me this site.

This forum is more serious no game really or a bunch of pictures but great information I mean great. It will change the way you handle your dog.

Here is the link to the forum go down about 2/3 of the way down you will see vacsines.

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Hope this helps. You have to use your real name on the forum when you sign up.

 

[Mrs. PBJ]

To answer some more questions

Raw is the best diet for your dog if they can handle it. Its what they would eat in the wild. I do kibble cause I dont have the time for raw right now.

They will take a fecal at the vets they stick a stick looking thing up there but and get enough to do a fecel.

To help you with vacines

Do we booster our chrildren every year no then why do our dogs need thesame shots over and over. They have a blood test they do to see if there still imune to thedizease that the vac covers.

and the new protacal release by the veternaian drug association say every 3 years for core vac but that is stillto many. Ask yourvet to see the container it says the vac are good for over 7 years so why do we pump them up every year.

If your odg is a year I would not vec at all except for rabies.

Remember the same goes with rabbitsas dogs you are paying the vetyou make the desion about what your pets get. Dont let them scare you if you need to post pone the appointment then do so and find out what you need to know.

Dont let any vet take your dog to the back what ever they need to do they can do in front of you. I worked for vets I know what happens in the back they handle your dog the way they want to. They do what they want to I had a vetI worked for vac a dog after the owner said no I quit that day.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

My dogs get Rabies, Bordatella (kennel cough and we've actually had it going around our area and Sydgot it but mildly last year)... and distemper.Sydney hashad a couple of the others but doesn't drink lake water or standing water so we don't do the giardia thing but would if she did. But, KC did get it for a few years because she's outside but now we don't do that one for her either.

Poo is for the float test/worms/parasite type stuff.

Here, we have lots of skeeters and yes they carry heart worm. Flea meds, I do believe in if you get fleas - they can give them diseases also.

My thoughts on vaccines are that the chance that they shorten their lives is very very small compared to the benefit that they have. Rabies of course has to be given but if you take the dog anyplace else or any dogs come there...... you need Bordatella vaccine..... some places won't even allow them to be groomed without it or borded or anything........

If you take the dog to the lake or pond or anything - giardia.

 

[naturestee]

I'd recommend getting the shots again this year, then you can consider skipping them. Some of the people I know at the shelter do this, where they vacc cats and dogs through the first year, and stop at the second year. When they are growing their immune system is still developing so you want to get them the shots at least once after they're done growing.

I personally get my cats vaccinated every year. Lily has feline herpes and I don't want to run any risks. The risks of the vaccinesare few and rare.

Fecal sample is to look for worms. I'd bring some in. It's so easy for them to pick something up at the dog park or from fleas.

Flea meds aren't really needed unless there is a problem. If you do need the, prescription meds are generally safer than over-the-counter stuff. Heartworm meds really should be done, because if he does get infected and it goes for a while without being found the treatment can actually be fatal. Scary stuff.

 

[undergunfire]

Thanks, you guys! You have provided a lot of information for me to take in. It is going to be hard choosing which way to go because every one has different opinions and experiences on the matter.

I was looking into Revolution (heart worm & flea med) for Sammy, but I am not totally sure I want to put chemicals into his body. I know many people who have had/have dogs that were never on heart worm meds (in upstate New York) and never had an issue with heart worms. As I said, too, I don't think I have seen a mosquito out here.

Sammy can't be at high risk for anything, can he, being he is an indoor dog? Besides the occasional trips to the puppy park. On a daily basis, Sammy is outside for maybe 15 minutes. When we go to the dog park, he is out for 1-2 hours.

My main thing is is not "polluting" his body. I am slowing working on a raw diet (he is on EVO now) and Sammy only gets organic/natural treats...never people food besides some veggies, egg, or fruits.

I guess I see Sammy as an indoor dog, kind of like the kitties. I will not vaccinate my kitties, so I guess I don't see why Sammy would need to be. I just want to make the right decision for Sammy, so his life can be as natural and healthy as possible.

 

[PepnFluff]

undergunfire wrote:

I was looking into Revolution (heart worm & flea med) for Sammy, but I am not totally sure I want to put chemicals into his body.

I'd be VARY wary of revolution and advantage, my work mate sdog Jake was given revolution for a flea etc treatment and he reacted BADLY! he went to the vet and was on a drip and became lethargic and was touch and go for awhile. the vet contacted the makers and they covered the bill as It could only have been from that. Now Jake is sick very often and has suspected pancreatitis and is lost ALOT of weight, he is also very lethargic all the time. The vets are at there wits end and are considering putting him down.

 

[missyscove]

I'm all for vaccinations myself, in animals and in humans. I realize that some people have differing viewpoints, but in my opinion, the benefits far outweigh the risks.
If I'm not mistaken you take him to dog parks. If he's frequently around other dogs, I'd want him fully vaccinated myself. If he never had contact with others, that might be a different story.
Poo samples are usually for parasites.
We don't put our dogs on flea or heartworm medications. They've gotten fleas maybe 3 times and we treated them then and solved the problem, but, then again, if he's frequently in contact with other dogs, things might be different.
After the first few rounds of vaccines you can opt for a vaccine titer, but that's usually much more expensive than just getting the vaccine anyway.
As far as food goes, I really see no problem with just a good dry food. The digestive system of a dog is really quite hardy. They're omnivores (like us) or faculative carnivores. Their nutritional requirements are actually very similar to ours and a dog can life a healthy life on table scraps, provided that they're balanced (IE you feed the dog everything you're eating, not just the lima beans you don't like)
The nutritional requirements of a cat are much different.

I realize that my views are likely different from most, but they're based off my personal experience combined with what I'm slowly but surely learning in my Animal Science classes. Yes, I take everything I learn in class with a grain of salt becaue professors, too, are biased and no, I haven't taken animal nutrition, yet, but I still respect what I'm learning and value that information.

 

[Mrs. PBJ]

I wanted to say one thing about the bortitella vac.

I am a vet tech Finished about 4 months ago. If your dog get s bortitella you know what it is a cold a common cold the vac causes more dogs to get it then ones who don't.

I am not pushing anything but studys have shown to vac your dog everyyear it shortens there life span. if you are that worried do a tilter its a blood test they do every year to check.



Guardia is a little more touchy if you are in the area where its common I would vac for it ever 2 years that one weres off a little faster.



About the heartworms in upstate newyork they only have a few months of true summer if it freexes the mosiquitos die. So that why your friend did not have a problem down south they need to be on it year around.



If you are already doing raw go to leerburg it will help you a lot. Some kennels will let you in. There view is if the other dogs are vac like there owners say they are protected from what ever they think your dog might have. Same with kids in school if a mother chooses not the vacinate then all the other kids are protected cause there vac.

I would do heartguard you can find all natural flea stuff. Sense you dont vacs your cat dont vac him. Do the fecal its just getting some poo out of him. If you dont want to give him there wormer which I would they have all natural wormers. I use that on a monthly basis. I will find some studys.

But to all who vac or not the new protacol release by the veteranian board is every 3 years for core vac. Most vets wont follow cause they say then my pastent will only come every 3 years So they are trying to make money. And they have a 3 year rabies also but get this its the same vac a dog has been getting every year. I am glad people vac but read up on it.

Oh I wanted to add opne more thing about nutrition.

Vets only do 9 hours of nutrition in 9 years and guess who teaches those classes science diet, Purian, As a vet etch the class on nutrietion was a elective I did not have to take it at all. Vets get paid for what they sell in there office remember that also.

 

[JadeIcing]

The only reason my dog doesn't get EVERY shot is because she is indoor only minus short trips to my moms house, walksand her dogs are strictly indoors and in her yard.

 

[missyscove]

PBJ wrote:

If you are already doing raw go to leerburg it will help you a lot. Some kennels will let you in. There view is if the other dogs are vac like there owners say they are protected from what ever they think your dog might have. Same with kids in school if a mother chooses not the vacinate then all the other kids are protected cause there vac.

My mom is actually in charge of the shot records at my elementary/jr. high school. Yes, parents can sign a waiver saying that vaccinations are against their beliefs, but if there is ever an outbreak of that disease, that child is not allowed to attend school.
There are people (and presumably pets) out there who cannot get vaccines because of allergies or because they are immunosuppressed. That I understand. What I don't understand are people who expect their children (or pets) to be protected by the so-called herd immunity but I'm sure if their child then came down with polio, they'd have a hissy fit.

PBJ wrote:

Oh I wanted to add opne more thing about nutrition.

Vets only do 9 hours of nutrition in 9 years and guess who teaches those classes science diet, Purian, As a vet etch the class on nutrietion was a elective I did not have to take it at all. Vets get paid for what they sell in there office remember that also.

I think you'll find that really depends on the vet as well as what school they attended. Just because something isn't a mandatory requirement doesn't mean they haven't done it.

 

[Becknutt]

I highly recommend Revolution. Since moving out here, ina rural area I've been using it on everyone, dog, cats, and the rabbits. Parasites are one thing I NEVER want to deal with.

My dog gets aRabies shot, andthats it. Consequently she has gotten kennel cough (bordetella), twice. The first time the vet gave meds, and it took 7-10 days to get the horrible hacking cough to stop. The 2nd time, I recognized the symptoms and tried a home remedy using diluted food grade peroxide and she was completely cured in 2 days.

So, just be informed. If you decide not to give all the shots, be prepared to treat illness. In the last7 years, that is the only thing she has picked up, aside from ear infections which were allergy related.

 

[pamnock]

undergunfire wrote:

Thanks, you guys! You have provided a lot of information for me to take in. It is going to be hard choosing which way to go because every one has different opinions and experiences on the matter.

I was looking into Revolution (heart worm & flea med) for Sammy, but I am not totally sure I want to put chemicals into his body. I know many people who have had/have dogs that were never on heart worm meds (in upstate New York) and never had an issue with heart worms. As I said, too, I don't think I have seen a mosquito out here.

Sammy can't be at high risk for anything, can he, being he is an indoor dog? Besides the occasional trips to the puppy park. On a daily basis, Sammy is outside for maybe 15 minutes. When we go to the dog park, he is out for 1-2 hours.

It is far easier and cheaperto prevent heartworm than it is to treat it (We had a dog with heartworms years ago). I use Ivermectin paste for heartworm prevention rather than the expensive meds through the vet. My vet seemed quite fine with that when I told him.

Immunizations are a must, especially due to him being exposed to pathogens at the dog park.

Fleas are common and easily picked up. Iuse topical treatmentand steam clean the carpets frequently. I spread out treatments as far as possible to save a little on money. You can also do immunizations yourself to save money $$$, however many states don't accept home rabies shots.

Parasites are easily picked up off the soil/grass. (Ivermectin covers that) I'veanalyzed soil samples and watched some very small, aggressive parasites (such as hookworms)pursue their victims on the ground. This convinced me that a preventative worming program is important. It also convinced my to only use sterile soil for my indoor creatures habitats!

Even occasional outings put dogs at risk for parasites and other diseases.

Pam

 

[Mrs. PBJ]

missyscove wrote:

PBJ wrote:

If you are already doing raw go to leerburg it will help you a lot. Some kennels will let you in. There view is if the other dogs are vac like there owners say they are protected from what ever they think your dog might have. Same with kids in school if a mother chooses not the vacinate then all the other kids are protected cause there vac.

My mom is actually in charge of the shot records at my elementary/jr. high school. Yes, parents can sign a waiver saying that vaccinations are against their beliefs, but if there is ever an outbreak of that disease, that child is not allowed to attend school.
There are people (and presumably pets) out there who cannot get vaccines because of allergies or because they are immunosuppressed. That I understand. What I don't understand are people who expect their children (or pets) to be protected by the so-called herd immunity but I'm sure if their child then came down with polio, they'd have a hissy fit.

PBJ wrote:

Oh I wanted to add opne more thing about nutrition.

Vets only do 9 hours of nutrition in 9 years and guess who teaches those classes science diet, Purian, As a vet etch the class on nutrietion was a elective I did not have to take it at all. Vets get paid for what they sell in there office remember that also.

I think you'll find that really depends on the vet as well as what school they attended. Just because something isn't a mandatory requirement doesn't mean they haven't done it.

Yes I completly agree if my dog get parvo it is my fault I can nopt blame anyone else for me not giving the vac. But I do titer every year which yes are 200 bucks a pop. And myne get two sets of puppy shots.

And yes its not madatory but yes many vets do do the research they are nomrally holistic vets cause if you really do the research you find out real quick. I am in no way against vac i am just saying lets do them right.

When someone dogs after gets a vac comes into our office not eating for a week and has to go to icu for a another week and has vacsinosis then they learn.

Vacsinosis- ask your vet what it mean they will change the subject in a heartbeat cause most vets know but won't do it.

Its hard to say all vets are bad because 99%of them are nopt but they all know about titer and dont say anything. Shoot my vet was all protacal then I came through she started doing the research and has changed her whole practise.

So no vac are not bad but do them right. My dogs will prabaly need another set befor they pass because they are only suposed to last 7 years.



Also i have a two year old dog that just got her titer done so did my one year old. Guess what there immunity level are the same and phoenix got shot over 1 1/2 ago and bruiser got shots less then a year ago. about 6 months ago. So they are good for more then one year thats for sure. And phoenix is double bruiser weight. My dogs go to pet co petsmart training I do agilty with them in a group and never had a problem with them getting sick. When I worked at the shelter they came to work with me never got sick.

I do heartguard and frontline cause of where I am worm them once a year. Feed a very hign quality dog food I do a raw meal once a week or so.

 

[undergunfire]

pamnock wrote:

It is far easier and cheaperto prevent heartworm than it is to treat it (We had a dog with heartworms years ago). I use Ivermectin paste for heartworm prevention rather than the expensive meds through the vet. My vet seemed quite fine with that when I told him.

I didn't know you could use Ivermectin to prevent heart worms? I have heart horror stories of the heart worm pills, but have never heard of anyone giving Ivermectin. Revolution runs about $70 every 3 months :shock:. I have a tube of Ivermectin that I bought to get rid of those mite things on the rats...that cost me $12.



Both Ryan and I are deciding to get him his shots. There is a low cost shot clinic coming to Petco on the 19th...so I have a week to decide.

If I do get him his shots...what are the core ones I should get? Borditella, Parvo, and rabies? I don't want anything that is unecessary...like the drinking out of dirty water one....I live in AZ...what water ?

 

[bat42072]

my dogs get their puppy shots and then rabies every 3 years... I always make sure they get their puppy shots before i even let the puppies tuch the ground because the parvo virus is really bad in my area.... and once its in the ground you pretty much can't get it out...

 

[pamnock]

undergunfire wrote:

I didn't know you could use Ivermectin to prevent heart worms? I have heart horror stories of the heart worm pills, but have never heard of anyone giving Ivermectin. Revolution runs about $70 every 3 months :shock:. I have a tube of Ivermectin that I bought to get rid of those mite things on the rats...that cost me $12.

The main ingredient in Heartgard is Ivermectin.

The "horror" stories come from the fact that some mammals have a gene mutation that allows the Avermectin class drugs to cross the blood-brain barrier, resulting in depressing the nervous system which can cause heart or lung failure. In dogs, this mutation has been associated with particular breeds such as collies or dogs related to collies.

Pam

 

[kirst3buns]

If you are worried about getting too many shots, you may want to wait on the bordatella. Our vet really only recommends that one if you are planning to board your dog at some time (most kennels require it). We didn't even know about getting the bordatella until the first time we had to use a kennel and then we were able to run in quick to the vet to get it so we could board her.

I would talk to your vet and see what they recommend. Our vet doesn't recommend vacs every year and follows the three year guidelines, except for our cats. He says that there are studies that suggest that after a few rounds of vaccinations, that future vaccination in older cats can actually do more harm than good. It may be interesting just to ask to see where this vet stands on vaccinations. I don't think they are all on the same page with vaccinations and I really like the one I go to.

 

[undergunfire]

Thanks, guys! I think I have decided to get the Parvo and Rabies shots done at the shot clinic this time around.

I had to cancel Sammy's vet appointment this morning because Ryan is really sick with the flu and Sammy was under his name there. I'll just reschedule it before the free office visit coupon runs out.

 

[pamnock]

I wouldn't put off the bordatella. It can be picked up at the park as well as in a crowded kennel. If there is any chance of your dog being exposed to other dogs, it's an important vaccine.

Here's a good site with more info . . . http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_kennel_cough.html



Pam