(RIP) Pasteurella?? (molar spurs)

[Pipp]

For the record, neither rabbits nor humans should have grapefruit when taking various medications, they can interact badly.


sas :clover:

 

[Pipp]

hotmaildeal wrote:

wow, you know everything! Thanks!

Nah, I just looked it up. But that info is for the injectable kind, the oral kind is more stable, its supposed to be kept in a cool, dry location (most everywhere but a humid bathroom). But if the pharmacist told you to refrigerate, and it's a powder/sterile solution mix, that seems to be an injectable protocol. Not sure how that works. If you say it tastes bad and it was supposed to be a pediatric version, I sure hope the pharmacist and vet have done this right.

Also be forewarned that diarrhea will be a more serious symptom than loss of appetite. And at least in humans, symptoms can appear up to a month later, even after the antibiotic is stopped.

Is that a new x-ray? I honestly don't feel comfortable with inexperienced laypeople attempting to read x-rays. At all. I already sent the old ones to my vet, he did not see an abscess (although he could be wrong, too). That said, as noted in the article I posted, the surgery could have triggered tooth root issues including infection.

I haven't had the time to go through the posts really closely, not sure who prescribed the drugs, but taking him back to the dental vet would have been the best course of action. (ETA: A follow-up appointment should be at a reduced rate if not free for the exam, be sure to ask).

Also note that one of the possible reactions to penicillin injections is the rabbit getting hyper, not sure if the same holds true for Zithromax. Hopefully Randy will see this and comment.


sas :clover:

 

[tonyshuman]

Pipp wrote:

For the record, neither rabbits nor humans should have grapefruit when taking various medications, they can interact badly.


sas :clover:

This is true! My dad had to stop eating grapefruit, which he loves, because of his cholesterol medicine!

 

[MILU]

I've never found grapefruit it here, don't worry.

I don't have new x-rays yet. I'm giving azithromycin according to what was posted here.

The white mucus from bun's nose suggests respiratory infection, and it would get worse if my bun got anesthesia to have a dental check before treated. So I'll give the antibiotics and then have the dental check. :hanging:

My bun isn't sneezing as often as he was yesterday and before, and I don't hear that mucus noise inside him when he sneezes anymore, so I guess zythro is working well. (* yes, it's for oral use despite the gross cherry flavor)

* still the weird noise that comes from inside him persists. Maybe it's from his GI (?) or what else is around the belly behind legs. Does not sound like bloating that I've heard from him in 5 years - hopefully it's a new kind of gas..?

:hiding:

 

[MILU]

BTW follow-up visits are paid just the same. I suspect that's why my bun never gets ok. Also other pets and lots of people need a 2nd (paid) surgery.

I know dental probs may recur but my bun eats good varied foods and since RIGHT AFTER the dental procedure he doesn't want to eat his favorite treats or some leaves he liked - a sign that STILL sthing was wrong! Dentist had then said "he'll be ok" but now says "anesthesia again." There go $500 more!

 

[tonyshuman]

If he's gassy, some simethicone is always good.

 

[Pipp]

How's your bunny?


sas :clover:

 

[MILU]

He's ok. I haven't written more 'cause he seems stable now, and I know you must be busy with other cases too.

My bun still has the weird noises coming from inside him "randomly" but the respiratory symptoms that I was more concerned about (white mucus expelled in big quantities, even as a little puddle on the ground) are all gone since day 2 of zythro (today will be day 5). Of course I owe my bun's life to you again!
:bunnydance:

He still has the weird "bumps" under his chin though. I'm not sure if they're "natural"..?
I know he'll need a dental check-up but I'll wait 'til he's done with zythro. He'll need anesthesia and I don't want him too exposed to too many different drugs all at once and he's ok enough to wait, eating, playing as crazy, etc.

He has no diarrhea as zythro side effect yet, although the size of his droppings got smaller. Still he eats even right after having taken zythro and I'm happy about it. Thanks for asking and for sharing your expertise!!
Have a wonderful day!!


:big kiss:

 

[tonyshuman]

I think it's a good idea to wait to have the bumps checked. The azithromycin can only help them to heal, so that's actually good. Glad that his mucus isn't as strange. I don't know what those noises could be, other than a lower respiratory disease, but hopefully the zithromax can clear that up.

 

[MILU]

On day 2 of zithro the respiratory issue wasn't there anymore, as a miracle! There's been no more mucus at all!

* I don't think the "weird noise" is related to respiratory issues, as it comes also from areas other than chest.

I wonder if my bun has a "disguised" dental issue that makes him swallow air, causing the noise inside his belly also close to his legs- ?? I'd suppose this noise is different from bloating in the sense it's been swallowed and not formed by the GI -??? ** Just supposing!!** I'm trying to find a reasonable explanation for this!!

I don't think internal organs would make that noise like a little honk or so, unless they were traveling inside my bun and switching positions.. hehe
This is quite puzzling!!!! The good thing is - it's not causing harm enough to make my bun stop eating, drinking water or playing.

About teeth - when my bun had spurs, his mouth smelled bad for weeks before I noticed the problem and he wouldn't eat anything at all for days and drooled a lot.

Now his nose/mouth is slightly wet sometimes but almost nothing. Maybe this is normal?
His mouth doesn't smell at all and he eats well*.

I could even think there's nothing wrong, but he refuses to eat varied foods, and he gave up some of his previous favorites right after the dental procedure.
Sometimes he seems to have food trapped somewhere in his mouth and uses his paws trying to move it. I always watch and assist my bun eating as I'm afraid he chokes.

How I wish my bun didn't have to take anesthesia again...... it took him almost a week to recover...!
:tears2: :cry1:

And then I'm afraid IF he needs a new procedure, he may acquire problems and root infection because of the procedure (like suggested above) and then will need more antibiotics? Ouch, life isn't fair!!!! TG he's a warrior!!

:duel

 

[MILU]

* he eats well = but only carrot leaves, fruit and certain pellets. Not anything else.

 

[tonyshuman]

Interesting. Maybe he's passing gas? My bunnies purposely make a little honking noise when they're excited too, could that be it?

The smelling bad thing sounds a lot like infection in the mouth. It's good that he doesn't have that now. I do think he's got some tooth issues right now, based on the sometimes wet stuff, the food preference changes, the food trapped thing.

What did they use for anethesia? It shouldn't take that long for him to recover.

 

[Pipp]

We just took a friend's rabbit (BPotter's Twinkles) in for what was supposed to be a tooth trim and Dr. Martinez ended up pulling three of his teeth. :shock: The molars were very long and the roots were also long and had some infection.

And the little guy was back munching down his dinner in just a couple of days.

Bad breath is not usual in a rabbit.

This is sounding like your rabbit either he had root issues to begin with or the procedure aggravated the roots.

Antibiotics are almost always the way to go even on spec when it comes to head issues (and many other things).

Are the lumps going down? I'm not sure what they are, but it is ringing a bell. I have seen something other than your run-of-the-mill oral abscess. Something else presents with bumps like that, but I can't remember what it was.



sas onder:

 

[tonyshuman]

The only other thing I can think of that causes large bumps on the face is myxi, but that's not present in Brazil, I don't think.

 

[MILU]

Dividing the whole thing in topics:

ANESTHESIA
Anesthesia he took was to be inhaled, I don't know what. I meant 1 week 'cause my bun was unstable for that long, lost balance, etc. No droppings even taking probiotics, although he'd eat.

INTERNAL NOISE
I wish the noise was that cute excited noise they do! I know all of the noises my bunny makes - it's none of them. Nothing he's ever emitted in the last 5 years. It's not intentional. It's like in his GI I think. I often hear it close to his legs after he swallows the liquids I syringe (then he tries to escape from me or stops eating).

TOOTH NOISE- I forgot to mention this one:

when he chews, there's sometimes a friction noise, like a fork scraping a pan, coming from his teeth... It started right after the dental procedure. This noise makes my flesh creep!!!!!!!!!! (* vets here said it's "normal" - without hearing it! My bun hasn't EVER made this for 5 years and it's not the sound of food or teeth chewing) - Malocclusion?? I'm positive this is why he won't eat certain foods. Some make his teeth make the noise more than others when he chews.

BUMPS
I don't think the bumps under his chin are myxi. My bun has no contact with other animals (except for vet visits in January). I live in a building, high floor, we don't have fleas, mites, etc. Stimes I see some tiny spiders but I'm positive they wouldn't bite my bunny, esp. under his chin! And he's not swollen, he's got tiny little bumps, invisible to the eye.

I thought of pasteurella... even 'cause my bun has several other tiny little bumps under his skin in other areas of his body too (has always had, apparently never had problems with them). The most noticeable - if at all - is the chin site (because he's had dental issues and the chin has been more inspected than other areas). They're not visible and almost imperceptible touching.
Vets here could feel the chin bumps with their hands after I told them about, but couldn't tell what they are. Said it's "let's leave this alone".

They couldn't feel/find the other bumps and I didn't even bother insisting in showing where they are, as they said they don't know what they are and would be poking MY precious bunny in vain....
:stikpoke

Also I thought of dental abscess thinking of what Randy posted, but then had in mind dr. Martinez said no abscess so I got no idea what the bumps are either.
How I wish I could volunteer with you for some months and learn more about rabbits!

 

[tonyshuman]

Thanks for the info.

They may be using one of the older inhaled anesthetics. I would ask them to use isofluorane if they have it. Bunnies seem to react better to it.

I honestly can't tell you what that internal noise is, it's pretty strange. Maybe it's gas in his intestines. Maybe when he's trying to escape the gas moves around in there? :dunno:

The tooth noise might be from pain. They do a tooth grind that sounds similar to what you're describing when they're in pain, different from the clicking noise they make when happy. Maybe somebody with a dental issue bunny has heard them before and can comment.

That's interesting about the bumps. I still think there are probably dental abscesses, and the bumps might be related to that. I am not a vet though, so all you can go by is what the people with the degrees say.

 

[MILU]

Thanks, I'll ask about isofluorane when he has a dental check.

The tooth noise isn't the pain grind. I know how that sounds, too..

This is a high-pitched tooth noise that happens when he chews food, as if the teeth suffered friction by opening and closing the mouth, upper and lower teeth in friction. It's not the noise of the food being chewed either, or normal chewing sounds. It's like teeth scraping each other by chewing. Very unpleasant sound!

I hope you're right about the chin bumps, if they're abscesses I'll know there's a way to treat them :biggrin2:

About the other noise, I hope you're right too and it's gas. I can't think of anything else, despite every time my bun was bloated the noise was different. I guess he's getting more refined with ageing. :construction

Have a great Wednesday!

:bunny18

 

[MILU]

Well, tomorrow is (Thank God!!) the 14th - last - day I'll give antibiotics to my bunny.

It didn't give him diarrhea, although the size of his droppings got MUCH smaller and now, since yesterday, he refuses to eat anything at all. I wonder if the antibiotics messed up his tummy (despite I gave him probiotics). Yesterday I heard lots of the "weird noise" and later I also heard some bloating noises (very different). I think he was in pain for a while, because he was gritting his teeth while laying down. Today I don't hear the noises anymore but bun isn't happy (at least he's not gritting his teeth anymore).

How long do I have to wait from the time he stops the antibiotics to the day he can take anesthesia? I don't want him to have too many drugs mixed messing him up.

Interesting how he always gets sick right during big holidays when nobody is working...... sigh...

 

[MILU]

Just wondering: is there any condition in the lungs that can be "noisy"?

* "noisy" not as a whistling sound when breathing, but a noise that can be heard as coming from inside the chest, being heard even by far

 

[tonyshuman]

I think the decision to use anesthesia is something that has to be a combination of how his lungs and heart sound along with how he looks--something I can't tell you. There aren't any drug interactions between typical antibiotics and typical anesthesia, though.

A sound from inside the chest while breathing could be pneumonia. The bacteria responsible for a lower respiratory infection can be different from the ones causing an upper respiratory infection, I think, which might be why the nasal symptoms have improved but the lungs are making weird noises.