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Lucy123

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, Michigan, USA
Hello again!

I was curious as to others thoughts on taking their animal to the vet, particularlyyour rabbit...

If you were in a position where your vet asked to keep your rabbit overnight to treat for GI Stasis, and the cost would end up being approx. $600.00-700.00, would you agree? Not agree? Not agree even if you had the money? Etc...

This cost would include treatments/observation/force feedings if needed/etc.
 
I find it problematic to pay a lot of money for the vets. I am in Australia and for us to keep a rabbit at the vet hospital I think can be even more than this amount. At the moment the past couple of years we would not have the money most of the time to keep the pet at the hospital unfortunately. If I had the money most probably would do it if I thought there is no other option and he may die from the stasis. if it is not that bad then I would keep him or her at home and treat there.
 
Well, I think it's a decision you have to make while you're in that situation. I have not had my bunnies have a serious illness, but I have had my dwarf hamster be very sick. I will gladly spend several hundred dollars on a pet to keep them alive and healthy, even a small pet like a hamster. Everyone has their own limits, however.

I like to think that veterinary medicine is amazing science that we can use to provide better lives for our animals. I want my animals' care to be at the forefront of medicine and I am willing to pay for that. I think I would have no problem spending up to $1500 on any one of my bunnies because they all have many happy years ahead of them, and I have that amount of money saved away just for that reason.

With my lifestyle, I can afford to put a little bit of money aside in case of an accident--whether it's my health, my car, my bunnies, a friend has an emergency, or even an emergency airline ticket, the money is there and I will spend it if I need it. In the end, it is just money, and I make enough money to live on the edge of poverty but I don't want for any of the essentials. Part of that is not living outside of my means and being young and not having children, etc.

I had to make a decision if it was worth it to put my hamster through surgery; not only was it a financial decision, but it was a question of whether or not it would be likely to succeed. She was old and in a lot of pain; I didn't think she would heal well from a surgery because she was elderly. Beyond the problem that surgery could have cured, she had other issues bothering her as well. I decided it was best to have her put to sleep. So in that case, it was not finances that directed my decision, but whether or not the treatment would be successful. She had 20 months of happy hamster life (18 is life expectancy for her species), and I didn't want to put her through several months of pain that may not have helped.

I know the cost to buy a new rabbit is not high, but to me a rabbit is worth far more than that. They are my friends and I will pay what I can to help them.
 
If our vet asked us to we probably would...:(
But unless it was life threatening...he wouldn't...he also knows we can watch them closer at home then they can at the clinic! They have other duties...but I can sit and obsess for hours!;)

It isn't the money either...
I know my rabbits..I know when they are off and when there is something wrong...But we have also had tons of experience with stasis so dealing with it is not something we would be freaked out by...or worried about. Most issues we handle at home...unless they are dire or we can't deal with them on our own...then we head to the vet for help!

I guess it depends how savvy/comfortable you are...

Danielle:)
 
If the rabbit has stasis and a person has the opportunity to have aready learned the treatment protocol which would be sq fluids, syringe feeding, maybe some oral meds like simethicone, etc it is better to treat the rabbit in the home environment.

It is way more stressful for the rabbit to be in the hospital , handled by strangers than to be in familar surroundings.
I was in a situation years back whereI left an elderly bun overnight for the treatment of stasis. My previous vet in another clinic had always taught me what to do at home but this exotic vet hospital pushed me to leave my bun there .

She died alone in the hospital in the early morning hours. and I truly believe that this particular hospital was out for making $$$

Learn as much as you possibly can re. rabbit medicine so that you will be comfortable doing the treatment at home. ..not only will you save a lot of $$ but you will also give your bun a better chance of a less stressful recovery.

I am talking about the treatment of GI stasis and not some other medical issues which would truly require extended hospitalization.
 
Diagnosis of GI stasis (and what's causing it) absolutely requires Vet care, I don't have an x-ray machine in my bunny room (unfortunately). Nor do I have years of rabbit anatomy and Veterinary medicine training.

People must remember that stasis is a symptom, not a cause.

However for me, treatment is best done at home because I am otherwise well-equipped and I have the time, knowledge and commitment and it's less stressful for the rabbit. And way cheaper.

But you must be very comfortable with administering SubQ fluids, you must be able to provide warmth, massage and meds as required.

If my rabbit fails the treat test and appears to be in pain with the typical symptoms of gas (tummy pressed to the floor, uncomfortable shifting of position, attempts to pass gas), I will wait eight to 10 hours before heading to the Vet in the first place and try my 'gas regime' first, and I won't leave a gassy bun at the Vet overnight because I know that they're not going to sit there and massage his abdomen for hours. And hours. :nurse: :pet: :yawn:


sas
 
Thanks for these replys! I really wanted to know what people do when their rabbit is in this situation.

I asked because one of my rabbits is more prone to Gi Stasis then the others, and the Vet is unable to tell me why. She usually goes in on average once a year for GI Stasis. I know the routine, the medications needed, etc.

What I don't look forward to is actually taking her to the vet for medication. The first time I took her, because it was after hours I had to go to the emergency location. So there was an $80 fee just to begin with. They wanted to keep her overnight so they could do all these tests and put a cathedar in her, and by time they got done printing up the sheet it was roughly 800 dollars.

I cannot afford this, and to be honest even if I could, I would not give them the money. I know the routine, I know how to treat the rabbit IF the vet's offce would just hand it over. It was a horrible experience and I was pressured to leave my rabbit there which I refuse to do for this condition. Not only that, but because I know they were over prescribing meds, because I question there prescription the doctor came back in and brought a book with her, and had me read as if I was 2 years old ( I was extrememly upset at this point and said I would never go to an emergency vet again, and I haven't.

Now if I take her in I go to our regular vet, but they still want to pressure you into leaving the rabbit behind, which I personally prefer not to do. I don't understand why the vet today will not just hand over the meds to me because I have been through this time and again, like I said I know the routine. Instead they look at me like I'm inhumane, and although they obvisouly let me take my rabbit home, they make you feel like you've made the wrong choice. To even ask me at this point if I will leave my rabbit behind is just aggravating.

Well thats the short version of why I asked, and I really appreciate all of you adding your thoughts!! These are some really good points. I wanted to know what the majority would do (just in this situation)

If you have any more I would like to know!
 
I've paid hundreds of dollars in vet bills for a rabbit before, and with my luck I'm sure I'll do it again. However, with GI stasis, as long as there are no other complicating factors that the vet finds then I'd rather treat at home. I can do sub-q fluids, give meds, do oral feedings, etc and I'll stay up all night with a bun if I need to. I have before. I did have one bun kept overnight for GI stasis but that was when the vet thought she found a lump in his belly.

If your vet is unwilling to give you the meds and such (although frankly my preference is for no GI meds) you need to treat your bun at home vs. hospitalization, you should try sitting down and having a talk with him. Explain your dedication to your rabbit, your willingness to do what it takes for him at home after he's been properly diagnoses etc., but that you just can't afford to have him staying overnight at the vet plus he's likely very stressed out there. If he doesn't listen to you, is there a different rabbit vet you could go to? If you have a rabbit with chronic or recurring issues it's best to have a vet that can work WITH you.
 
Like Pipp said... It's important to get a diagnosis - a cause. After that, depending on what is needed, a better decision could be made. If it was a case of stasis that wasn't too serious, I'd treat at home with a deadline, meaning if not better by this time (time set by vet) bring the bunny back. Vet bills can accumulate reeeal quickly so of course I try not to overdo it when I can avoid it. But in the end, it's also really important that we keep it in mind when acquiring pets so I think it's most important not to get more than one can handle. I've learnt with experience. :(
 
Nope...
I don't take my rabbits to the vet. The only rabbit savvy vet around here charges $100 just to walk in the door. Around here means an hour away, for future reference. When we tried to save Tiny Tim when he was having enteritis problems, she had no idea what we were talking about- we knew the problem- she's never even heard of it. An overnight stay at the vets is out of the question, because we wouldn't have gone there in the first place. I'm a big fan of home diagnosis and treatment.
 
I think an overnight stay is unnecessary. Taking the animal to the vet for diagnosis is one thing, but they're not going to be doing x-rays at 3 am. It's very likely that no one will even be in the vet office at night. I just don't understand why they want you to leave your bun there when you could probably do a better job at home. I would rather drop Lily off for a few hours of tests, come back, take her home, and take her to the vet again the next day if they need to run more tests. I can give her better care at home, pay more attention to her than a busy vet tech with 20 animals to take care of, and I can keep her calm and focused on recovery without adding unnecessary stress.
 
In my earlier post I was referring to the treatment of GI stasis ( and overnighters at the vet) and not the diagnosis.
If a bun has gas or beginning stasis symptoms I would certainly do the at home treatment first to see if it will easily resolve but if it doesn't... Pipp ( and several others above) are correct that stasis is a symptom and not a disease and that we do nothave diagnositic equipment at home

A rabbit can be diagnosed with a GI x-ray often showing a full stomach and intestines that are filled with gas pockets.An X-ray can rule out a blockage which is way more serious and may require hospitalization.

It is important that if the stasis does not resolve with home treatment that the underlying cause for it be determined. For ex. abun has a dental problem and needs dental work in order to eat without pain
Once the diagnosis has been made by the vet and the plan is simply to rehydrate the bun ,syringe feed etc THEN I do not know why a dedicated knowledgeable owner cannot do these treatment themselves at home

so a vetIS necessary for the diagnosis of the problem if initial home treatment is not working


and/or the rabbit may require hospitalization if the owner is not comfortable or capable of doing the treatment at home.

With my first bun in stasis many years ago the vet told me what to buy at the store , how to syringe it etc and blatantly told me that the rabbit would do better at home. (he was a good guy) and my bun came out of it despite my inexperience.
 
Ok, as for treatments though, when you say "home treatment" what do you mean? Are you referring to the meds given by the doctor after it has been diagnosed such as....cistapride, baby gas drops, and massaging the belly for example? Those are the only treatments I have ever had to do inorder to correct the problem if I recall right. Or do you treat your rabbit with beginning symptoms using something else?
 
If the rabbit appears to have gasI would treat with 1- 3 doses of simethicone and tummy rubs Sometimes this alone is enough . if the problem peristsI would syringe pedialyte and also give a dose of benebac.

If the rabbit stops pooping I would do the above treatment butI would also give several cc's of freshly squeezed pineapple juice along with the pedialyte . I would basically hydrate the bun well
You can also syringe fresh canned pure pumpkin or a very diluted critical care mix.

if doing the above doesn't resolve the gas or stasis I would go to the vet for an xray and diagnosis
You can never give a gut motility drug like cisapride without a gut x-ray initially... if the bun has a blockage the contractions from the drug can rupture the abdomen or intestinal wall.





 
Lucy, check out this thread:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=28622&forum_id=10

Most of my preferred treatments for uncomplicated GI stasis (no blockage, intestinal infections, dental issues, etc.) are ones that I don't need the vet to give me. However, fluids are at the very top of the list and sub-q fluids can be extremely useful. That is something I won't do without the vet's ok due to my personal discomfort, plus my stuff expired and I'd need a new kit anyway. IMO if I feel the rabbit needs sub-q fluids then it needs a vet check anyway.

I'm not comfortable with gut motility drugs except in specific circumstances. For example, when an orphan rabbit I was raising had repeated issues with her cecum not emptying properly resulting in bad diarrhea and gas/gut pain. For uncomplicated GI stasis I'd rather not. They should never be given without a vet check AND xray.

I have one rabbit with megacolon and two with dental issues, one of who also gets a gassy tummy sometimes when molting. If I don't suspect dental issues I'll treat stasis problems at home for about a day if there are no other warning signs and depending on if the weekend (aka no vet) is coming up.

I highly recommend adding Benebac or a similar probiotic to basic at-home stasis treatment. If the rabbit didn't have a gut bacterial imbalance to start with, stasis will cause it.
 
Presumably if you're contemplating leaving it at the vet you've been to the vet for an initial diagnosis so the questions I'd be asking is what treatment/care is needed over night and who's in the best position to offer it. Also, if you decide to take your rabbit home, how far away are you if it needs to go back and will the vet be there. I don't think there is a set answer, it really depends on you, the vet and the rabbit.
 
Well, I have to go to the vet for meds and the meds are always the same each and every time I have taken my rabbit in (Cistapride/simethecone). I don't nessecarily need a diagnosis because the diagnosis is always the same. So the diagnosis is always the same, as is the medication. So this is why I am here asking this opinion question because as you can see, there is no reason for the rabbit to stay overnight! ( I wanted to be sure though, and I can see how the majority feels now) The office is well aware that I always end up taking my rabbit back home, yet they still try to pressure you to leave it at the office, because apparently they are somehow more qualified to observe, give the rabbit baby gas drops and cistapride then I am? : )

Everyone is making really good points though here. The vet techs are the one's observing my rabbit along with 20 other animals, it is stressful for the rabbit in the first place to be out of it's regular environment, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use oral medication, so there is no real reason for the vet's office to want to keep my rabbit other then that extra 300-400 dollars they would profit??

There was that one time though that I already wrote about above, that the emergency vet wanted to administer a catheter/fluids/Reglan. They used different meds, for some reason there was a huge differance of opinion/procedure of meds between this emergency vet and my regular small animal vet. The rabbit would obviously have to stay overnight due to the cathedar, however I didn't allow it even though the office wasn't happy about it. I mean a CATHETER?? I must have looked at the doc like she was nuts. It was absolutley unnessecary, and what do you know she survived without it!

To awnser your question though, the vets office is approximatley 10 minutes away, so that is not a problem at all.

So what do you think...
 
Couple of thoughts....in my non-professional opinion. First, motility drugs have never and will never be used on any of my rabbits. They are far too dangerous, again in my non-professional opinion. I feel the drugsare a "win-win" for the vet. If they work, the vet is a hero....if they tank, it's an easy out for the vet to say the condition had deteriorated to a point where the drugs didn't have time to work. Those drugs induce intense contractions which are quite painful. The walls of the GI tract are already quite thin and it is likely that ulcers will form during a serious GI event and the lesions make the walls thinner. The contractions can easily perforate those lesions....and there is only one resolution to that problem. I have had rabbits in stasis for over a week and treated primarily with fluids and support care. In most cases of stasis there is far too much intervention (remember that rabbits don't like change....the idea is to stabilize) and it's done far too quickly. I currently have a senior lionhead that is not eating.....my only intervention at this point is feeding romaine lettuce for hydration.

And I would like to comment on yourexperiencewith the difference between your regular vet and the emergency clinic. I work closely with both...and our work with wildlife is almost always emergency protocols. I think you might owe the emergency people an apology because using a catheter is proper emergency protocol. The mind set and protocols of emergency treatment is to be aggressive and catheters are far more efficient than sub-q or oral. We also do some "IO" catheters.....these go directly into the bone marrow. The fact that your rabbit survived is hind sight and hind sight is always correct.....the job for those emergency people are to do what they feel necessary to save that animal. They are making decisions based on the facts in front of them.....not hind sight. A catheter is no big deal....we can do it in the field if necessary. It's just much more efficient in rehydrating and if a code occurs, any meds necessary can go directly into the blood stream. Personally, I think if you have a concern with your vet care, the concern should be more with what your primary care vet is doing rather than what the e-vets wanted to do. Again, my personal opinion, but vets lose major points with me for using gut motility drugs. There are safer and more effective ways to deal with stasis. Also keep in mind that stasis is a symptom of another issue and the other issue should be corrected.

Randy
 
Hello!

No I don't owe the emergency room an apology, and these are my following reasons.

The bill would have been close to 800 dollars, if not more. Now if you want to tell me that I should be willing to pay that if I have the money because I decided to adopt the rabbit in the first place that is fine. But then your saying most people should be approximatley in the upper middle class to upper class inorder to qualify for owning an animal that costs $50 dollars to begin with. I support the medical industry but bottom line it's a business. I will only support treatments that are needed, nothing absurd or beyond that. $800 dollars is absurd and beyond the treatment needed to reverse the condition, I know that because she has been treated before for the exact same condition.

They would not let me back into the room where they took my rabbit because they said that's "protocol." If you can go wherever your own child goes at a hospital, then why can't I go where my rabbit goes? It's rediculous. Period.

Lastly, you may agree with using a catheter for a rabbit, I on the other hand don't. Using a catheter can cause more complications, I don't know why you didn't add that fact. I have seen some horrific accidents in people, let alone a 4 pound rabbit. I love my rabbits and I am not going to put them through anything beyond oral, at home treatment solutions, or hand fed medications. I will humanely put the animal down because for one it's in pain, two I am not going to empty my bank account to "attempt" to correct the situation the way they wanted me to because I know it was unnessecary, and lastly because I know there are 10's of thousands more rabbits waiting in shelters because others tossed them out the door and neglected them.

I will do what I can bottom line. And if I want to refuse a certain medical procedure for my rabbit because I prefer another method, or while where at for myself, that is legal and defintely within my rights, how quickly some forget. There is no reason for ANY kind of vet to dispute you for three hours because they prefer to do something a certain way, let alone pull out a vet book and give you VET 101. Not a good way to deal with customers.

My concern should be with my primary vet, your right, however I have to be concerned with my emergency vet because it is the only one who is around here that I know of that treats rabbits. And it seems my rabbit prefers nights or the weekend to become sick...

Oh and to this day, the e-vet nor my primary vet has any idea what the cause of her recurring stasis condition is. Their room is fully bunny proof, they have free feed high fiber hay, always fresh water...I was told sometimes some are more suseptible then others...

As for motility drugs it is obviously my non-professional opinion also, but all I can say is my rabbit is like new after they are administered orally. If it works, and so far it always has, my rabbit is happy, so I am happy!

Anyway those were my thoughts! Thanks : )
 
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