post-op handling question

[Imbrium]

the girls got spayed today - we just got home from the vet. how should I lift them out of the carrier to get them into their new temp cages? I haven't seen their tummies yet so I'm not sure where the stitches are at/how to go about picking them up without hurting them.

 

[JBun]

Does the top of your carrier unhook from the bottom, that would be the easiest way to get them out.

 

[Imbrium]

oh. I guess it could. it's a 1x2x1 NIC enclosure, so I'd only have to snip some zip-ties. the temp cages are also set up to open from the top, but I can snip the sides of both the carrier and the cage and nudge them in that way. thank you, common sense fairy!

what should I do when it comes time to inspect their tummies?

 

[agnesthelion]

Agnes let's me do anything to her. So I just gently lifted her with my hands around her front feet and my other hand on her rump. I then sat on the ground with legs propped up a little and gently turned her upside down. I checked her incision daily.

It was nerve wracking picking her up. So I feel your concern I would just avoid their middle section as best as you can.

Im glad they are home and safe!!! Did they send you home with metacam?

 

[Imbrium]

the vet tech guy said they weren't sending home any pain meds because my bunns seemed comfortable/not in pain afterward or w/e but that I could call them if they seemed uncomfortable in a day or two.

I insisted that I'd feel better if I had something to take home just in case, so he gave me a bottle of painkillers. cost an extra $15, but if my babies are in pain later, I don't wanna spend 40 minutes in the car to get them relief. (plus it doesn't hurt to have painkillers in my first aid kit just in case I need them some other time)

 

[Blue eyes]

Good idea insisting on the pain meds! Glad they're back home.

 

[agnesthelion]

Ditto on its good getting the pain meds. Of course they didn't seem in pain after the surgery, they are still coming down from anesthesia!

Agnes needed pain relief the most the morning after. She didn't seem as bad the few days after, but I gave it to her just in case. After all, it's in a rabbits nature to hide pain, not show it.....so it's good you have it.

Believe me, in a week this will all seem like a distant memory. Hang in there, they will be fine AND wait til after, you will be so glad they are fixed

 

[Imbrium]

anesthesia, not to mention the 24h painkiller shot, lol.

I'm definitely looking forward to pee not smelling as bad - it's gotten pretty funky lately. plus no more fearing a fight could break out at any time and cause me to have to separate them!

 

[Imbrium]

more questions... they're not eating at all, should I try to syringe a little bit of critical care before bed or wait to see if they eat overnight? I even offered raisins... Gaz ate one then refused more; Nala took one from me, dropped it and then refused to take it from me a second time. veggies, pellets and multiple types of hay are all untouched.

also, I saw Nala-bunny licking at her incision area pretty intently so I lifted her up and it looks pretty damp down there like she'd been at it before I went in there, too. should I wrap her mid-section in no-chew vet wrap? if so, any tips on how to apply it? I've never used the stuff before.

last question... do they do something to their eyes while they're under? the fur around them looks weird, like ointment or something has been rubbed on it.

 

[Imbrium]

I totally just noticed that the directions for critical care are given in french, dutch and german... but NOT english. WTF? who would've thought 3 years of french in high school would come in handy 12 years later, lol. managed to pick out enough words I knew and combine them with contextual clues to figure out the instructions.

 

[agnesthelion]

Has it just been a couple hours since the surgery? I don't remember exactly when Agnes started eating after hers but it wasn't right away. What I kept an eye on was pooping and peeing. Are you seeing any of that?
Follow your gut and if you feel like digestive systems are slowing down, then syringe something. It cant hurt. Otherwise check them in the morning or throughout the night and see how input/output is then.

As far as licking at the stitches, UHg, Agnes never did that. You culd try the wrap but I've heard of it causing MORE attention to the area so then it makes it a bigger deal. Is she tearing or biting at the stitches?

Yes they do put some sort of ointment when they go under anesthesia so that is what you are seeing around their eyes.

 

[Imbrium]

not sure exactly when the surgery happened; sometime between when I dropped them off (10 am) and when I called to see how they were (4 pm)... it's currently 11:45 pm.

they've been pooping a little... they've each peed at least once; for all the hopping in and out of litter boxes, they both chose to pee on the floor, heh. I've seen Gaz drink a decent bit of water, but not Nala... then again, Gaz has always been my little camel-bunn.

I decided I wanted to be proactive about it instead of waiting to see signs of their digestive systems slowing down, so I mixed up some critical care. that stuff's... interesting. when I opened the bag, it smelled *just* like the anise cookies that I used to make with my mom as a kid. it smells very different when mixed up, though, and it tastes like a$$ (seriously, worst-tasting bunny noms I've ever tried). I told the bunnies "bunnies is eating before mommy goes sleepies" though, and I meant it!

I learned something tonight. syringe-feeding a lop is MUCH more difficult than syringe-feeding other breeds! those chubby cheeks make it much harder to get the syringe in their mouth/find the right spot between the teeth. I also learned that the bunnies HATE being syringe fed the critical care. they got adept at rearing their heads to fight the syringe very quickly - with Gaz, I think I got as much on her/myself/the floor as I did in her tummy... but I got maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of a tsp in each of them, which makes me happy - at least they've got something in their tummies.

btw, thanks for the tip on how to flip them - worked like a charm. I checked out Nala's tummy... the stitches are primarily on the inside; there's not really much for her to try to remove. the skin was a bit red in spots, though, so I used some vet wrap to keep her off it for tonight (man, was that a fight!). I used a gauze pad under the vet wrap to make sure the wrap wouldn't irritate her. even though I was sitting there when she peed on the floor and cleaned it up ASAP, her tail and the back edge of her hind feet were coated in urine and she had three poops stuck to her tail so I cleaned her up with unscented baby wipes. I'll call the vet in the morning for advice about the licking.

 

[Imbrium]

slept on the floor beside their cages last night... woke up at 6:53 this morning (a good 2h before my alarm was set), ugh. looked like they hadn't eaten anything overnight and barely any poops in the litter box so I rang the vet when they opened at 7 am.

I talked to one of the techs; asked about the vet wrap and she said that was fine as long as I was still checking the incision daily (which is good - vet wrap sure beats a collar of shame ). talked to her about the not eating and she said even though they can't throw up, the anesthesia can make them nauseous; the effects should be fully gone/they should start eating better by sometime tomorrow morning. she told me to offer their favorite treats and basically let them eat whatever they wanted just for today - the important thing was to get 'em eating. I also remembered to ask what time the surgeries/pain shots were (1:30) so I'd know when to give the metacam. while I was on the phone with her, they both started eating hay... unfortunately they both stopped after a single piece.

I tried the critical care again... remembered I had another jar of apple/blueberry baby food and tried mixing some of that in, but it still went worse than last night. I barely got ANY in Gaz... got Nala to eat a little but she threw FITS. she gave me a warning nip on the thumb when she saw me coming at her with the syringe (I didn't have my left hand on her face yet), then she tried (and nearly succeeded) to climb a NIC grid to escape me (I had her pinned in a triangular corner between the playpen side, the temp cage side and my lap). I gave up on the critical care and got them each to eat about 3/4 tsp of straight baby-food from the syringe. if they're still not eating by lunch time, I'll break open the other can of pumpkin I've still got in the first aid kit. I don't like feeding 'em extra fruit instead of proper hay/pellets/veggies, but something's better than nothing.

 

[Imbrium]

I saw Nala munch on a piece of hay and Gaz took a few nibbles from the kale I offered them, so that's a good sign!

I tried to syringe-feed Nala some pedialyte 'cause I'm not sure if she's drinking enough water, but I'm finding it incredibly tricky. anyone have any tips on syringing liquids?

 

[agnesthelion]

I think it's good that they are eating a little on their own. How is their output?

I've never had any issues syringe feeding Agnes. Archie is harder but I didn't try that hard with him since it was just applesauce for bonding.

With Agnes I put her in the same position I checked her stitches in and she just gulped the medicine right down.

I think it sounds like they are making progress. If they were just sitting there doing nothing and not pooping or peeing at all that would be an issue maybe, but they aren't. Oh and Agnes peed on the floor after her spay too.

 

[Imbrium]

a few poops in the boxes, but it doesn't look like they've peed since last night :S

I'm getting ready to give them their metacam, though, so maybe that will help.

 

[Pipp]

They should take the fluids if you're gently putting the feeding syringe into the side of their mouths.

They do need to be hydrated before they get Metacam, it restricts the plasma flow to the kidneys.


sas :clover:

 

[Imbrium]

they fight and jerk their heads and rear up and do anything else they can to get away from the syringe when I go for the side of their mouths... seems like they always jerk away faster than I can push down on the plunger even when I'm holding them as firmly as I dare.

when I went to give them their metacam two hours ago, I found both bunnies munching on hay! yay! made it easy to just lift them out of the cages instead of having to nudge them out the side, too - I just picked up the litter box bunny and all, lol. Nala had some pee in (and over the side of) hers. I had to go out for an hour and a half and when I got home, they were munching a little more. Gaz had like 8-9 poops on the floor of her cage and they both had a few more in their boxes . I don't think Gaz has peed yet today, though.

after I couldn't get them to take the pedialyte, I decided to try leaving a bit in their cage. I didn't have any tiny bowls left around, so I took plastic cups and cut all but about an inch off, then put pedialyte in what was left of the bottom. while I was gone, Gaz tipped hers over and spilled most of it, then picked it up and sat it right-side up in her food bowl, lol.

I'll try again in a little bit to get them some fluids. if they haven't eaten much more by later today, I think I'm gonna try making pellet slurry with their sherwood forest since they loathe the critical care.

 

[Imbrium]

there will be no syringe feeding or pellet slurry tonight. I dunno if it was the last of the anesthesia wearing off, the metacam kicking in or a combination of the two, but they were munching on hay all afternoon. by the time I was done having dinner with my neighbor, they had eaten pretty much ALL of the big handful of alfalfa I'd given each of them last night.

while we were prepping dinner, I came back to the house for something and noticed the green banana I bought them the other day had ripened. I offered some to Nala and she took it eagerly... was going to feed her, then Gaz. Gaz was facing the opposite direction from Nala's cage when she suddenly turned around and I saw her sniff-sniff-sniffing the air and finding the source of the smell. she came over to the divider and shoved her face up against it like she was DYING to get to whatever that lovely smell was! it was SO cute . they both ate three slices of banana and would've happily eaten more if I hadn't cut them off (they had eaten a fair amount of hay by then so I decided I couldn't justify any more fruit than that). they were smacking and chomping and looking super happy!

after dinner, I also offered them a small leaf each of kale and they nommed that, too (even picky Nala). Gaz was so excited she practically ripped the kale out of my hand and she even ate the stem when she ran out of leaf! I got her a second leaf when she finished it. the kale makes me very happy, since it's got moisture in it and I'm not sure how much they're drinking.

it seems like their appetites have very quickly returned to normal and they had lots more poops waiting for me, so I think I'll take the divider away before bed and let them snuggle for reals tonight .

 

[Imbrium]

more good news! I went to take the divider and second food bowl out of the cage and to remove the two litterboxes and replace them with one larger one... the bunns were frisky, trying like hell to escape (I had part of both top and sides open to give me good access) and couldn't seem to take two steps without pooping. every time I picked up all the strays, I'd turn around and find more; must've picked up 50 or so in the span of 5-10 mins.

I figured out how to syringe the pedialyte finally - all it took was a bunny burrito and a complete disregard for whether it ended up all over the bunny and, at times, my shirt, lol. I used a full syringe on Nala and got probably half of it in her (so around a tsp). as I was putting her back, Gaz started drinking water... I still syringed her a little bit anyway, though, just to be on the safe side. I bunny burrito'd her too, but ended up not having to force it because she decided to lap at the syringe tip .

I also found that Gaz DID pee today... quite a bit... over the hay end of the litter box, heh. most of it went over the side (and landed on the far side of the NIC wall, no less). naturally, it was the one side where the only way for me to clean it up was to crawl under the piano on my hands and knees.