Possible kidney failure... What to do over the holidays?

[Jenk]

I think Emma's kidneys may be failing, even though she's only 4.5 years old. (She's been put on a lot of meds. during her lifetime; it wouldn't be impossible. Alas.)

She's urinating a lot. Last night, she urinated four times in about 5-6 minutes. And, yes, she's passing urine. It's not that she's straining and nothing is coming out. She's also been passing light-colored and even clear urine.

Just over a month ago, she had a urinalysis and digital x-rays done; neither one showed nothing amiss. (At that time, I'd thought she was straining to pee, though she was passing urine then, too.)

By last night, many of her fecals were dry: light in color and crumbly. (I suspect that's due t all the fluid she's peeing out.) Of course, the regular vets' offices aren't open on Christmas Eve. And my husband and I are due to be out of town the entire day of 12/26.

All things considered, would it be an okay idea to give her sub-Qs (at least once a day) until I can get her to the vet? I suppose I'd have no choice, if she refuses to drink water on her own or eat her wet greens. (Her thirst has decreased somewhat since yesterday.)


Thank you,

Jenk

 

[Jenk]

Update: Emma's fecals passed around 9 am today are normal in moisture content. I think the extra greens I gave her last night are "kicking in." (She also got wet greens this morning.)

Still, I know wet greens won't fix kidney issues. If I'm right, sub-Qs will become a part of our daily routine.


Jenk

 

[LakeCondo]

It sounds like you're doing the right things.:nurse:

 

[Jenk]

LakeCondo wrote:

It sounds like you're doing the right things.:nurse:

Someone said Emma could have a UTI, but I don't think that's the case, considering all the urine she's passing. Still, my fingers remain crossed that no signs of a UTI occur between now and 12/27, which when I'd be able to have her examined by the vet.

Thank you for the vote of confidence. All I can do is continue what I've been doing, unless anything changes.


Jenk

 

[pamnock]

If you were kidney failure, you'd most likely see a decrease in urine output and edema.

edit:
Duh - I meant if "it" were kidney failure. And to clarify - I was referring to an "increase" in edema (due to the decrease of urine output).

 

[Pipp]

Yes, this absolutely doesn't sound like kidney failure. You'd also always have very clear pee, not just the odd puddle of light coloured urine.

If you start with SubQ fluids, I can see you overworking her kidneys.

She honestly sounds perfectly normally, poops, pee and all.

And really, nothing harms internal organs faster than medications and treatments, please just let her handle any issues naturally without human intervention, she'll be so much healthier for it in the long run.

sas :expressionless

 

[Jenk]

Pipp wrote:

Yes, this absolutely doesn't sound like kidney failure. You'd also always have very clear pee, not just the odd puddle of light coloured urine.

I hope you're right, but Emma has been passing light-colored and some clear urine. And seeing her urinate four times in about five minutes is really odd.

About 5-6 weeks ago, Emma appeared to be straining to urinate. She was holding her urination pose for longer than normal--to the point that my unobservant DH noticed. She also repeated the "pee pose" often, but continued to pass urine. The vet carefully felt Emma's digestive tract, kidneys and bladder; he detected nothing. And the urinalysis and digital x-rays showed nothing abnormal.

I'll continue feeding Emma wet greens and giving her love. I can't get her to the vet until 12/27, which I intend to do to have blood work run. (She hasn't had it done in a while.) I suppose if it--and probably another urinalysis--comes back normal, there would be nothing else for me to do for the time being. Still, it's the repetitive peeing part that is unusual.


Jenk

I hope all of you have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy New Year. :hug:

 

[Jenk]

Tonight, I found that most of Emma's fecals were again bone dry. Either her digestive tract is slowing--though she's been passing an okay fecal quantity--or her body is losing too much water through urine.

For one month now, she's been receiving 1 C. of wet leafy greens per day. And whether she drank very little water or consumed as much as 150 mL's in a day, her fecals had a normal moisture content; now they are literally bone dry and crumble between my fingers, which concerns me.

I'm not sure what else to do for her, if her fecals remain this dry.


Jenk

 

[Pipp]

Hey Jenk, dry and crumbly is good! The dry matter content varies with hay, some veggies have dieretic effects, eating the food fast or slow makes a difference, deciding to sit and poop a lot or deciding to poop just a little at that moment probably makes a difference and honestly I'm sure the cycles of the moon will cause minor changes. It's all normal. It's just way too complicated (and futile) to try and micro-manage these things.

The vets/biologists and bunny slaves just shrug these days when a rabbit has exactly the same diet and water intake for four days and still has different colored pee in different amounts.

When Pipp was dehydrated and got Metacam, her straining to pee was very obvious, it wasn't just that she took a longer time peeing. Because she gets such a wide-variety of veggies, her 'sit' times and output amounts are widely varied.

If you feel you have to do something, I'd go for well-soaked Critical Care over SubQ.


sas :toast: Merry Christmas!

 

[MILU]

Whatever it is, I hope she feels better!!

 

[Jenk]

Pipp wrote:

Hey Jenk, dry and crumbly is good! The dry matter content varies with hay, some veggies have dieretic effects, eating the food fast or slow makes a difference, deciding to sit and poop a lot or deciding to poop just a little at that moment probably makes a difference and honestly I'm sure the cycles of the moon will cause minor changes. It's all normal. It's just way too complicated (and futile) to try and micro-manage these things.

The level of dryness Emma's fecals reached is rather abnormal for her.

I wound up treating her for apparent gas pain--which has created fecal-output slowdown--and believe that the overly-dry fecals were a symptom of what was to come. I just felt in my gut that something was brewing.... I think her system was slowing, which led to the overly-dry fecals. Still, it's like the chicken-and-the-egg debate; I'll never know what was the initial issue.

Still, Emma seems to be passing more pee than normal; so I'm seriously considering having another urinalysis and a full blood-chem. panel done on her--after her fecal output stabilizes, of course. I don't want stress her out with a lengthy car ride to the vet when she's not 100% yet.


Jenk

 

[Maureen Las]

My rabbit , Gabriel, had total kidney failure which occured suddenly after he was neutered
He was SEVERELY dehydrated whenanimal control broughthim into the shelter one summer when we were getting temps in the 90's for days; he was so dry that he felt like a piece of paper instead of a bunny. He recovered and functioned normally for about 1.5 yrs and then after the neuter just went down fast.
His symptoms were increased thirst and appetite and large amount of clear urine as described in this article. he developed terrible urine scald. I know that the extreme dehydration had damaged his kidneys.


http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/kidneys.shtml


Right now my chinchilla rabbits both have really dry poops with hair in them and I know that I will do nothing because they are both still pooping well and tomorrow it will most likely not be dry. It changes from day to day ..
Try not to concentrate on her so much.
I know that it is hard not to when they have had previous problems but just try
I doubt that her kidneys are failing

"Hugs"

Maureen

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

Right now my chinchilla rabbits both have really dry poops with hair in them and I know that I will do nothing because they are both still pooping well and tomorrow it will most likely not be dry. It changes from day to day ..
Try not to concentrate on her so much.
I know that it is hard not to when they have had previous problems but just try
I doubt that her kidneys are failing.

There's something going on with Emma that hasn't been uncovered. Monday night, she had another gas episode--or some pain-related episode--and hasn't eaten much hay since then. Her hay was nearly untouched overnight, and she has tiny fecals in her box this morning.

She went after her pellets right away this morning but wound up lying down shortly thereafter. She usually finishes most of the 1 Tbsp. of pellets before resting.

I think there's something causing Emma pain that hasn't been uncovered. I once asked the vet if an ulcer could cause Emma's frequent gas/inappetence episodes; he didn't think so and wouldn't try treating her for one. (Aren't ulcers treated unseen, since they can't really be found through any test?) No rabbit can be this sensitive without there being a reason behind the symptoms....

Looks like I'll go back to feeding her some Critical Care to keep her system running, since she's barely eating hay at the moment....

 

[LakeCondo]

Ulcers show up on x-rays, but the symptoms don't fit. There would be no urinary involvement. And the only change in poop that might exist is blood in them, if it were a bleeding ulcer.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

ray: