pasteurella, pseudomonas, e-cuniculi

[sickbunny]

I have a very sick bunny. She is in good hands now with a wonderful vet, Dr. McAfee in Valparaiso, Indiana. But we had a bad vet experience before him, and I would like to share my story to help others who have a sick bunny. One of my bunnies died, and if she had been treated properly, it might not have happened.

One of the things that helped me on this journey was what the vet described as "you've done your homework I see." I read constantly online about diseases and treatments. Dr. Dana Krempels had really helpful articles. Knowing about them helped me see when the doctors weren't treating them correctly. Being bold and disagreeing with a medical professional was hard, but I knew what to question. Changing doctors may help save this bunny. It's important to know about diseases and treatments so you can make sure your rabbit is cared for correctly.

Maybe, someday someone will read this, and it will help them, and Daisy's death won't have been in vain.

 

[sickbunny]

I had 3 rabbits when i went to the fair last summer, 2 female jersey wooly, 1 lionhead. The breeder I got the jerseys from was there, his rabbits do well in shows, he's a good breeder. I told him I was looking for a male for the 2 girls I got from him. He was so happy to hear his bunnieis were out there breeding- there was a barn fire and he lost 45 out of 50 rabbits. He thought the lines were gone. I offered to trade my best female for a cute little male he had up for sale, benny.

He was sooo happy with her. He said "she looked healthy" and she was better than any he had at home and he was going to put her in shows.

I tell you this because I had 3 healthy adults for 3 years who had never been to a vet or had problems, and sometimes people think sickness is an owners fault. It also shows I was not experienced in rabbit vet issues, but had to learn on the spot.

 

[sickbunny]

At the end of the fair I went back and bought 2 females 8 weeks old broken black and white jersey woolies no one had bought of his, Bella and Daisy. It was really hot 100 degrees and there were big fans blowing and they use cedar chips in the cages. Bella sneezed twice in the car.

I thought at first she had a sinus infection from the fans, or even worse a problem from the cedar chips. But it didnt get better or go away, so I tried to find a vet. I read online how hard, and how important, it was to find one that was good with rabbits. There was only one listed in my area on the list from a well respected rabbit organizations page, so I made an appt.

 

[sickbunny]

I asked "are any of your vets specially trained to work with rabbits" and she said they all were. (later during the exam when i mentioned this the young vet said well no she didnt have the extra letters behind her name but she had a pet rabbit).

She looked in her nose, and didnt see any blockage like cedar chips, and she said that she wanted to put her on a mild antibiotic. I said I read you're supposed to do a culture and sensitivity test. She said she talked to her colleague and he agreed the test was a waste of money and didnt tell you much. I said it said that tells you whats wrong and the best medicine for it, and that you shouldnt just give then anything because they can build up a tolerance, and I insisted she run the test.

She was worried she said about a dry poop on the table and wanted to give her a shot to hydrate her. I said that is not a normal poop, i made then stay on hay and pellets when they started getting goopy if they ate too much veggies. She was a baby and I didnt want to hurt her with a shot when I could just get her carrots and lettuce wet with water.

She was mad and made me sign a paper not holding her responsible because I was refusing treatment.

She examined both rabbits Bella the sneezer and her sister Daisy, but she didnt test Daisy.

Daisy wasnt sneezing but she holds her ears crooked like those old rabbit ear antennas and all my other rabbits have straight ears.

The bill was $177.

The test came back positive for pasteurella and pseudomonas. I asked to speak to the senior vet and complained about my visit. She reviewed the test herself and prescribed baytril. I said:

"Since they are both highly contagious, and these are sisters in the same cage, shouldnt they both be on the medicine?"

She said no, since Daisy wasnt sneezing, she didnt think she needed to be on it.

For a month Bella took baytril. She never stopped sneezing, but she wasnt sneezing as violently.

After the med was gone, the vet called, I said she is still sneezing, and she said well make an appt and we'll try something else. I said I read you're not supposed to switch meds around or you can build up a tolerance. She said I dont agree, if something doesnt work, you switch till you find something that does.

She never asked about Daisy, who wasnt sneezing but had an ear cocked sideways.


I didnt go back. I felt like me, a stupid amateur rabbit fan, knew more about what needed to be done and what wasnt being done. I lost all confidence in my vet. It was so hard to find that one, how would I find another?

 

[sickbunny]

The next two months the car broke down twice, huge winter heating bills, and I'm single and poor. I didnt have $177 to spend at the vets. Then I used some bill money, and started looking for a vet, because Bella would not stop sneezing and Daisy still had her ear down. I read on here someone had recommended a vet in my area, Dr, Mcafee, and i called him.

 

[Kipcha]

Well, just because Pasteurella came back does not mean that your rabbit is sick persay. Pasteurella is in 80% of rabbits, it's just that it doesn't show in most of them and the bacteria is dormant unless stress brings it out, so just because a rabbit is carrying the bacteria does not mean it is sick persay.

There is a list on here for good exotic, rabbit savvy vets,
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=9
Have you tried looking there?

 

[sickbunny]

Dr. MacAfee could not believe my vet horror trip, and that I had to force a vet to run a test. He looked at Bella's test results I brought, and said Daisy should have had a culture test too, so he did one. He also did Rabbit profiles, and did blood work on them.

He prescribed the baytril, oral prednisone for sinuses, nose drops, and a paste to put good things back in their body, and a cream for Daisy's ear that was scabby.

Bella was very thin he said, and he was concerned with Daisy's head tilt and was suspecting e-cuniculi, which he took a test for.

Daisy had never received any meds up to then, and i bitterly repeated the doctors words she didnt need them.

Her culture came back positive for pasteurella and pseudomonas days later, and baytril was effective for it, and days later more tests came back positive for e-cuniculi.

Daisy had been so sick this whole time, and was never treated.

 

[sickbunny]

For two weeks they took the medicine, and yesterday went back for a check-up.

Bella is much better! She has put on weight, gotten friskier, stopped sneezing for the first time ever- until the nose drops ran out, then 2 days later she started sneezing again. The vet said we'll put her right back on the nose drops.

Daisy, ... I had him put her to sleep. She had taking medicine and fought it till she was exhausted, constantly falling over, she stopped eating and drinking, and the last 2 days she lay on her side flopping in circles and grunting, and one eye turned black and she went blind. The vet said oh god its time, and when I handed him to her she shot diarrhea all over the table.

He said she had a very high count, .50 and that it had gone to her brain and was just devastating her body. She was only 8 months old.

He said we needed to treat ALL the rabbits for e-cuniculi because it was very contagious and as I could see it was a horrible disease. I was so glad to hear a vet say YES lets treat them all, not no I dont think they need it.

 

[sickbunny]

And so here I am today, with three healthy rabbits I'm praying stay that way, and a sick baby who is fighting a hard battle for her life right now. He said he's afraid in the next month she could turn around and go down too. But he said he was glad to see her looking so much better, and that meant there is hope. And he said now we have a diagnosis and now we know what to treat it with, and thats good news.

 

[sickbunny]

I hope my story will help someone reading it.

Read about possible diseases and treatments for your rabbits symptoms so you can talk to the vet and know what sounds right and doesn't. When I asked shouldn't she be on the meds too, I should have trusted my instinct and known. If you don't agree or feel your vet isnt doing all they could, or you're unhappy in any way, see a different vet. It cost $253 for the second vet trip, but it was worth the tests to know what we're battling so we can treat them right.

I'll let you know how Bella's doing, the vet said he doesnt want to see us for 30 days, but if I come back before then it will be because Bella takes a turn for the worse. In the next 30 days, I get to have the fun of giving meds to 4 rabbits everyday. benny, who has never bitten bit the fingers and the syringe and anything else close to his teeth.

bella would appreciate your prayers, she wasnt a happy camper when we came home yesterday and Daisy's cage is empty.

Best wishes to all sick bunnies! xox

 

[sickbunny]

Kipcha wrote:

Well, just because Pasteurella came back does not mean that your rabbit is sick persay. Pasteurella is in 80% of rabbits, it's just that it doesn't show in most of them and the bacteria is dormant unless stress brings it out, so just because a rabbit is carrying the bacteria does not mean it is sick persay.

There is a list on here for good exotic, rabbit savvy vets,
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=9
Have you tried looking there?

That is how I found my good vet, Dr. McAfee! I was searching desperately and not finding any vets who were specially trained for rabbits. Even when I asked at the first vet call, I was told they were and then found out they weren't. I stumbled onto this website, read your vet list, and found Dr. McAfee's name and a post from 10 years ago that he was great with someone's rabbits. He was the only one in this area I found recommended online besides the bad vet. So I decided to try him and he has turned out to be wonderful. I have a weight lifted off my shoulders now because I trust my vet, and appreciate his efforts in being thorough with my bunnies. When you know your sick one is getting the best care possible, you feel so much better about it, whatever the outcome will be. It's thanks to this website and your list that my bunnies now have hope thanks to good medical care!

 

[Yield]

[align=center]Thank you for your story. I am glad you found a vet you could trust and one that actually helped you.

When we suspected Sabriel had Pasteurella, we took him to the vet that worked at the Humane Society we got him at, hoping it'd be cheap, but efficient. That was when he was bonded to Solara so we took her too. He did NO tests, tried to stick a HUGE thermometer up poor terrified Sabriel's butt, and then charged us thirty dollars for both rabbits when he did NOTHING. And gave us liver-flavored Baytril tablets that Sabriel and Solara REFUSED to eat.

We just found a GREAT vet though when Sabriel broke his leg because we had to get his cast changed every monday (and NOT under anesthetic because he did bad under it- bad to say but I'm glad it was Sabriel that broke his leg and not Silas or Solara. They would have been so hard to watch and restrict movement and change casts,etc.) Anyways we found her from the Sanctuary I volunteer at- the volunteer coordinator suggested her, especially if we had to amputate Sabriel's leg (which I'm so glad we didn't have to- it's all healed now!) We really like her, and we even took our dog Lady there.

 

[Sweetie]

WOW! Thank you for that story. I am sorry you lost Daisy, she sounds like she was a wonderful bunny. I know what you mean when you said that we are glad to know that our bunnies are being taken care of by the right medications. I have to help my vet sometimes and let him know all the symptoms that my rabbits go through. But I am glad that my vet and I work together to get my rabbits the treatment they need.

One time when Sweetie was going to get spayed my vet never did a rabbit spay before so he did extensive research on it and I looked up information to give to him on it also. I even was able to give him a video, thanks to one of the members here, of a rabbit spay, which helped. I trust my vet because he is honest with me and he sends me to a vet to do a procedure if he cannot, like teeth trimming for molar spurs, or for a broken leg.

I am also sorry you had a bad experience with a vet with your rabbit. May your rabbits get better and stay healthy for a very long time so that you can save money in case they get sick again.

Get better bunnies!

 

[sickbunny]

oh, that little bunny in Sweetie's picture ^ looks just like Bella! :hearts

 

[sickbunny]

Two weeks later- Bella is not improving, unfortunately she seems to be getting sicker.

Still taking e-cuniculi antibiotic and nosedrops. She stopped sneezing for the two weeks she was on nosedrops, started again when they were gone, stopped for a week once she went back on them, but then has been sneezing the last week even while still on nosedrops. She had also become more energetic two weeks ago, but is now back to low energy, and is not putting on weight.

:sickbunny:

 

[tonyshuman]

I do not put a lot of faith in nosedrops. The antibiotic should be systemic, ie oral or injected, instead of just locally applied. Also the vet does not sound rabbit-savvy because there is no antibiotic that will treat e cuniculi. E cuniculi is a parasite and it will only be treated by an antiparasitic.

 

[sickbunny]

tonyshuman wrote:

I do not put a lot of faith in nosedrops. The antibiotic should be systemic, ie oral or injected, instead of just locally applied. Also the vet does not sound rabbit-savvy because there is no antibiotic that will treat e cuniculi. E cuniculi is a parasite and it will only be treated by an antiparasitic.

sorry. i used the word antibiotic but really i have no idea exactly what it was. so it probably was an antiparasitic. All i know is he said it was very expensive!

 

[sickbunny]

an update on bella~

she still sneezes. but not as much, and not as violently. i'm beginning to think that some of her sneezing problem may be allergies. maybe the timothy hay, she sneezes when i put a fresh bale in the cage. but even more, maybe the 3 smokers she lives with. she seems to sneeze more when everyone is up and smoking. but then again, ive gotten up early when no one has been up or smoking and heard her sneeze. i read a story here about someone else who had a sneezing rabbit and wondered if his smoking in his room caused the sneezing. just like some people are really allergic to smoke, maybe it affects her but not the other 3.
so i moved her into the kitchen which is the farthest room away in the house, and keep the window open for her. and i bought one of those smokeless ashtrays that helps suck up the cigarette smoke.

another thing i'm trying with her is the fresh air approach. my rabbits are all indoor pets. just like when people used to take their sick ones to the seashore for fresh air to strengthen their lungs, i wheel her cage outside on the porch and make sure she gets lots of fresh air time and sunshine. thank god summers here! it really seemed to help her.

i still let her have a small treat every day of a fresh veggie, but I'm pushing the rabbit pellets and timothy hay on her to try and bulk her up. she's not really gained weight, but she hasnt lost weight either. she's just not fat with lots of padding like my other 3, and i can still feel the bones a bit on her hind end. but she eats okay, so as long as she's interested in food, i probably worry too much.

i've been working a LOT the last month, and i dont have as much time to play with her, and i think she's sulking alot cause she's bored. she's a total affection hound. the neighbors grandkids came over to visit the other day, and i had her in a basket and they were petting her and wanted to pick her up. their mom said no, the bunny doesnt want you picking her up, and i said oh yes she does! i put her in the little girls arms, and bella snuggled right up to her. she LOVES being snuggled! i wish so bad she could be around the other bunnies for company, but i cant risk it. i'll be home a lot more this summer, so she'll be getting lots more play time.

she isnt showing any bad signs, no head tilt, no balance problems, no cockeyed ears. she's made it this far, and i think she is gonna pull thru all this. and if she does, it will all be thanks to the wonderful vet who treated her and her sister and ran all the right tests to find out what was really going on. she should have gone back in for a check-up by now, but i am really broke and cant afford to take her back right now. i have some serious bill problems, and my second job just ended and wont start up till september. if she looked like she was going downhill i would go running back and have to beg them to work out a payment plan with me, but she looks like she is on the road to recovery. she is almost one year old now, and that makes me feel more hopeful.

thank you everyone for all your get well wishes and advice! bella would snuggle you if she could!