only hay diet - how long is enough?

[sydneya]

i had posted here previously about my rabbit having a sensitive stomach and cecotrope staining (post here). it hasn't really improved much, but she does eat them all. i started just having her have only hay this Monday, so today is day 4, and she is eating a lot more hay and her normal poops look very consistent too. but how long should I do hay only? i was thinking of two weeks hay (or however long it takes for her cecotropes to not stain) and then introducing things one at a time starting with greens in two-week increments, then her ox bow vitamins, then her occasional pellets, and then testing out other treats slowly after that. is two weeks how long I should wait to introduce new things and to see if they're going to affect her cecotropes again? or is a shorter time better? i worked her down from her veg slowly eliminating and was only giving her spring mix the sunday before starting just hay.

here's a mix of what she was having prior:

• half of each oxbow vitamin each night (one fur, one multi-vitamin)
• occasional tiny banana piece (1-2 times a week)
• maybe 1/8th cup pellets or less in her dig box or wobble every other night
• a treat added to her dig box a couple of times a week at night (usually it was a small treat, or a piece off of a bigger one)
• fennel and spring lettuce mix daily
• cilantro, mint, basil, dill cycled into her greens at different times, not daily
• some dandelion greens sometimes
• some swiss chard a couple of times
• the bunny probiotic I've seen recommended she started within the last 2 weeks, but nothing has gotten worse or better with them, and I've stopped giving them since the only hay

 

[JBun]

It depends on how disrupted the rabbits gut microflora is. More severe cases of mushy cecotropes, can take many weeks (or sometimes months) of a free fed grass hay diet to correct. But a minor disruption or food sensitivity, can sometimes correct itself in a few days, once the offending food has been stopped. The longer it takes for cecals to get back to normal, the longer it's usually needed to wait before reintroducing other foods. A more difficult case would need 2 weeks minimum usually, but maybe longer, before reintroducing other foods. I would want to give it a few days at least, but possibly longer, of having normal cecotropes before trying to very gradually reintroduce other foods, with a preference of starting with greens first.

It also depends if there's an underlying medical problem causing the watery cecals, like intestinal parasites liver problems, heart problems, etc, and not a gut microflora issue. Which would then need the medical issue diagnosed and treated. Most often mushy cecals are diet related, but there is always the odd chance it can be a medical issue. But whatever the cause, like I mentioned in your other thread, with any diet changes it's important to closely monitor a buns weight and body condition, to make sure no unhealthy weight loss occurs.

Because only hay is being fed, it's important to feed a good quality hay that is leafy and green enough to provide the necessary protein and nutrients for good health. A hay that's too coarse or devoid of the needed nutrients, can result in weight loss and dangerous medical complications. But a very leafy early growth hay that's too rich, can also cause digestive upset for some rabbits. I've found a second cut that's a mix of mostly leaf and some stem, usually works well for most rabbits. I've had rabbits on a primarily free fed grass hay diet with select leafy greens, for several years because of specific medical needs, and they all did very well on a second cut grass hay.

This is all just info based on my own experience with rabbits. Your rabbits issue may be diet related, and a change of diet could very well correct this. But if you have any concerns, or at any point you suspect there may be an underlying medical issue going on, it's best to consult with a knowledgeable rabbit vet regarding your rabbits health issues.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Choosing_a_rabbit_veterinarian
https://rabbit.org/veterinarians/

 

[sydneya]

It depends on how disrupted the rabbits gut microflora is. More severe cases of mushy cecotropes, can take many weeks (or sometimes months) of a free fed grass hay diet to correct. But a minor disruption or food sensitivity, can sometimes correct itself in a few days, once the offending food has been stopped. The longer it takes for cecals to get back to normal, the longer it's usually needed to wait before reintroducing other foods. A more difficult case would need 2 weeks minimum usually, but maybe longer, before reintroducing other foods. I would want to give it a few days at least, but possibly longer, of having normal cecotropes before trying to very gradually reintroduce other foods, with a preference of starting with greens first.

It also depends if there's an underlying medical problem causing the watery cecals, like intestinal parasites liver problems, heart problems, etc, and not a gut microflora issue. Which would then need the medical issue diagnosed and treated. Most often mushy cecals are diet related, but there is always the odd chance it can be a medical issue. But whatever the cause, like I mentioned in your other thread, with any diet changes it's important to closely monitor a buns weight and body condition, to make sure no unhealthy weight loss occurs.

Because only hay is being fed, it's important to feed a good quality hay that is leafy and green enough to provide the necessary protein and nutrients for good health. A hay that's too coarse or devoid of the needed nutrients, can result in weight loss and dangerous medical complications. But a very leafy early growth hay that's too rich, can also cause digestive upset for some rabbits. I've found a second cut that's a mix of mostly leaf and some stem, usually works well for most rabbits. I've had rabbits on a primarily free fed grass hay diet with select leafy greens, for several years because of specific medical needs, and they all did very well on a second cut grass hay.

This is all just info based on my own experience with rabbits. Your rabbits issue may be diet related, and a change of diet could very well correct this. But if you have any concerns, or at any point you suspect there may be an underlying medical issue going on, it's best to consult with a knowledgeable rabbit vet regarding your rabbits health issues.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Choosing_a_rabbit_veterinarian
https://rabbit.org/veterinarians/

thanks for the response! it hasn’t been too dramatic and it’s definitely been uphill since i adopted her where her cecotropes were just mush, now its just the staining although her butt is clean, they seem defined and she’s eating them all

i linked the hay that im currently feeding her, but i give her mainly just the timothty and orchard from this. the oxbow kept just being dust so i switched from them and the hay in this is nice and long and crisp (not crumbling dust like my oxbow was) but not coarse feeling to the touch? my bun eats Way more hay since the switch, which has improved her usual poops to consistent cocoa-puff sizes. i saw in the faq from a smaller bag version of this hay that the hay is 2nd cut, but if you have any other brand suggestions that might be a better choice if this one isn’t the best thats worked with your buns i’d love to have them!

 

[JBun]

Coarse stems would be the hard stems with mature seed heads on it. They're thick, hollow, and brittle. You would be able to notice the difference if you had a box full of it.

So it sounds like that hay should be good. And the orchard is a good addition to have with the timothy as it's good for their dental health, plus rabbits usually quite like it. Your bun eating this hay better, will help a lot with getting that microflora rebalanced. Good grass hay is the best thing for correcting digestive issues in rabbits.

 

[sydneya]

Coarse stems would be the hard stems with mature seed heads on it. They're thick, hollow, and brittle. You would be able to notice the difference if you had a box full of it.

So it sounds like that hay should be good. And the orchard is a good addition to have with the timothy as it's good for their dental health, plus rabbits usually quite like it. Your bun eating this hay better, will help a lot with getting that microflora rebalanced. Good grass hay is the best thing for correcting digestive issues in rabbits.

update since then, is it possible for it to get worse before it gets better? her regular poops are the correct shape, size etc. even more so than before and she’s drinking water and i see her eating a lot of hay (evident by the fact that i’m refilling it in larger amounts than before the all hay diet). but i feel like her cecotropes and staining more/starting to stick to her more within the last couple days. its Not diarrhea and she’s still eating most the cecotropes beside what sticks. but there’s a lot more staining now. but she’s eating well, drinking well, behavior is the same as usual. just more staining with the cecotropes recently.

i dont want to revert from the only hay if it’s supposed to help over all and the reduction on pellets w/ limited greens wasn’t making the staining go away completely but im wondering if i should add one back or if its be best to continue with all hay since everything else is fine and consistent besides the cecals.

i can contact my vet if necessary when they re-open but they weren’t that helpful previously with advice since it wasn't diarrhea.

 

[Diane R]

update since then, is it possible for it to get worse before it gets better? her regular poops are the correct shape, size etc. even more so than before and she’s drinking water and i see her eating a lot of hay (evident by the fact that i’m refilling it in larger amounts than before the all hay diet). but i feel like her cecotropes and staining more/starting to stick to her more within the last couple days. its Not diarrhea and she’s still eating most the cecotropes beside what sticks. but there’s a lot more staining now. but she’s eating well, drinking well, behavior is the same as usual. just more staining with the cecotropes recently.

i dont want to revert from the only hay if it’s supposed to help over all and the reduction on pellets w/ limited greens wasn’t making the staining go away completely but im wondering if i should add one back or if its be best to continue with all hay since everything else is fine and consistent besides the cecals.

i can contact my vet if necessary when they re-open but they weren’t that helpful previously with advice since it wasn't diarrhea.

I would stick with hay only for a couple of weeks at the very least. It can take weeks, sometimes months, for the gut to reset. Good luck!

 

[sydneya]

I would stick with hay only for a couple of weeks at the very least. It can take weeks, sometimes months, for the gut to reset. Good luck!

thanks! just need reassurance we’re on the right track

 

[JBun]

Provided her weight and other health stays good, I would give it a little more time as well. Like Diane R mentions, it can take a bit for the gut to sort itself out. But I would expect some improvement at least by two weeks, even just a little. If not, it may be there's something else going on there, which may require a fecal float test, or maybe even a blood test and xrays to determine what's going on. And if unhealthy weight loss occurs, or other deterioration of condition, get your bun to a good rabbit vet right away, to be checked for other possible causes.

If your current vet isn't very proactive in figuring out what's going on or isn't a particularly knowledgeable rabbit vet, if possible, I would suggest finding a better rabbit vet that can help you get this figured out. If it's something like a parasite issue, change of diet isn't necessarily going to cause any improvement and could result in significant weight loss and poor health occurring when put on a free fed hay only diet. This could also explain a worsening of the watery cecals on a hay diet when it should be improving, if this is what's going on.

Another possibility to consider is that your bun could have a cecum absorption disorder of some sort. Which could mean there won't be any or much improvement on a hay diet, and there will start to be unhealthy weight loss or other ill health from the poor absorption. If this is the case, your bun might do better on certain more easily absorbed foods, and it's just a matter of finding the right foods for the best results and management of the condition.

This can happen with buns that have megacolon. My megacolon buns responded best to a low carb, hay and select greens only diet. But I know some megacolon buns don't do well on the hay diet, but do better on a diet more easily absorbed. So if you suspect something like this or your vet has this finding/suspicion, trying easily absorbed foods like an extruded pellet, might be the way to go.

Rabbits with ongoing or reoccurring digestive issues, it can take some trial and error and a bit of detective work, to figure out what's going on and how best to correct it. That's how I figured out the best diet for my megacolon buns. I paid very close attention for signs of stomach upset after eating, and very closely monitored their droppings. When I saw a correlation between certain foods being fed and them feeling uncomfortable after or having their poop worsen, that helped me dial in on what not to feed and what diet was best for them.

Like one rabbit would start belly pressing and eye squinting after even just a pinch of pellets. Or would get very irregularly shaped and sticky fecal droppings after anything with too high of sugars/carbs. Then another bun would get very moist log shaped fecals and odd cecals when his hay was too rich and soft.

So it's slow gradual changes, closely monitoring poop and signs of discomfort, monitoring weight, trying other things if something doesn't seem to be working, and getting to a good vet if there are any more worrying symptoms and/or unhealthy weight loss. So it's important to understand what the signs of pain or digestive discomfort are, what changes in poop mean, and what are the signs of an emergency. And if in doubt, always get your bun seen by a good rabbit vet.

https://bunssb.org/bunnies/guide-bunny-poops
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Veterinary_emergencies