New member, a couple of questions

[DKaralunas1969]

Hello all,

This is my first time posting, I've been a lurker for years and have obtained lots of information just with board searches. However with two of my five rabbits, I'm a little stumped. So a quick run-down of each rabbit, any feedback would be wonderful!


First bun: Meadow, age 5 years.

She started refusing her morning treat a few weeks ago, slight disinterest in greens (though she would eat fragrant stuff like mint and parsley). I brought her to her vet, she was diagnosed with bladder sludge. Not surprising, she's slightly compromised (wobbly) with either a previous EC infection or brain injury. Administered sub qs, metacam, but she was still refusing her morning treat. However after her dose of metacam, and within a couple of hours we have a happy, healthy Meadow who eats everything in sight. I took her back in for further diagnostics, and it turns out, she has calcific tendonitis in her knees. So right now she's on metacam, it's managing her pain but I'm still seeing a slower-moving Meadow in the morning.

I cannot find ANYTHING online about tendonitis and rabbits. I found one scholarly, human article that said lab-bunnies (boo, I know) respond to glucosomine, so she is on Oxbow joint support tablets. I'm also learning that calcific tendonitis is incredibly painful, but self-limiting, at least in dogs and horses.

Is there anything more that I could be doing for her? I'm in New England, I do have access to fancy medical centers like Tufts, but I wanted to see if anyone has experience with this malady.


Second bun: Winston, age 1.5 years. Meadow's husbun.

He arrived at a rescue in Connecticut with a severely broken leg. It was amputated, he was put up for adoption, I looked at that face and was in love. Anyhow, he's always been a big pee-er and water drinker. I would say up a cup a day for a 5 lb. bunny. Lots of pee. This obviously concerned me, so I took him to the to vet to get everything checked. His vet said his values could indicate kidney disease.*However his values, with the gobs of research I did, are within normal range. High normal, but normal.

Her values differ slightly from what I found online:


Creatinine results - 2.0 mg,*Normal range* - 0.2 - 2.5 (my vets are .8 - 2)

BUN results - 24 mg, Normal range, 5 - 25 (my vets are 17 - 23.5)


His EC levels were very high, so right now we are nearing the end of his 2nd panacur cycle after the 2nd titer revealed they are coming down, but not to a satisfactory level. He's being retested (3rd time, Dec. 5) to see if his titer has come down, but his drinking and peeing remain the same. He has absolutely no clinical signs of kidney disease. He's incredible energetic, bossy, affectionate, sleeps curled up with his wife bun for the normal amount of time, and is not losing weight. In fact, has a little pudgy. So I'm not sure how to feel about all this. Is his prognosis poor? I'm having a hard time putting this all in perspective, when part of me it slightly panic stricken at the words "kidney disease".

Thank you again, for any feedback you could provide. I feel like I'm on red-alert with these guys. I had three bunny deaths last year; all unrelated, congental and unavoidable. Needless to say, my anxiety is pretty high and I just want to arm myself with as much information as possible.

 

[RavenousDragon]

1) I don't really have much experience with tendonitis, especially in the smaller animals like rabbits- it sounds like you are doing everything you should be doing though. It is not a deadly disease, just painful (like you said) and she should be ok with pain meds on board.

2) I would stick with your vet's values. The way they are determined means they are unique to each machine (e.g. if the machine your vet uses is more sensitive, a higher BUN/ Creatinine may be considered normal and vice versa). That also being said, these values are still only a tiny bit outside of the normal reference range and could be normal for him (they are determined using the average of the values of normal animals- so some may be outside this range and be normal). It could also be the result of EC- if he has a lot of antibodies floating around, it can cause damage to the kidneys, and this may not be progressive. Kidney disease in rabbits that age is not very common (or any animal that age, really), so I might re-test after you finish the panacur. Did you get a value for total protein as well? How did that look? Did you do a urinalysis?

 

[DKaralunas1969]

#2 makes a lot of sense. I just looked at his urinalysis results, and it doesn't appear a protein levels were done (see attached). When we retest his EC, we are going to re-do his BUN and creatine and I'll request that as well. I want to make sure the values are at least at a stand-still.

Thank you ravenousdragon, you've definitely helped assuage my anxiety!

 

[Watermelons]

. Kidney disease in rabbits that age is not very common

I just have to disagree with this 1 point. Sadly it is a lot more common for rabbits to get kidney disease or start to suffer from kidney problems at that age.
I have personally lost 2 rabbits both around the age of 5 to it. A friends 5 year old rabbit is in the beginning stages of kidney failure. It seems to occur fairly frequently veterinary wise.
So do be mindful of kidney issues occuring.

Missycove. Jbun. Or Ravenous will likely be the best folks to help you out since you actually have values to look at.

 

[DKaralunas1969]

May I ask what started the kidney disease process, Watermelon? Was it EC?

 

[Watermelons]

Kidney disease can start quite young. I've seen it in younger buns 2-3ish. No as far as we could find it was not EC. Much of the kidney problems I've seen are either diet related or for no reason at all. My first rabbit I assume it was diet, as I gave him alfalfa based pellets and alfalfa with his hay his whole life. My last one to have it I made sure it couldn't be diet related so we don't know what caused her kidney issues.
So while Winston is young, sometimes age doesn't mean a thing in domestic animals.
Never did get to see an EC bunny while I worked in clinic.

Now Ravenous is right. You need to look at the levels compared to the machine they were done on. My mother has 1 of my cats and continues to take his creatinine levels from the lab report and compare them to a chart online then tell me that he's developing kidney failure (at 3-4 years old) but when you compare the levels to the charts they should be compared to, coming from the lab not elsewhere, his levels are fine.
I don't see labwork to panic about in your post. However if levels are getting close, I may alter diet related items that could affect the kidneys. Start removing those high protein high calcium items.
So continue with the EC treatment and fenbendazole and just see where that takes you.

 

[DKaralunas1969]

Thank your for your reply. After losing my first rabbit in a horrific chain of events (nearly out of control bladder sludge, resulting in an EC infection that effected her neurologically... causing violent, bed-shaking seizures, to a sudden death), I'm pretty anti-pellet. My buns gets a few tablespoons of Oxbow pellet, unlimited hay (I'm the person behind One Ear Up, so they get a terrific variety of different cuts and different blends), fresh pasture forage for about 8 months out of the year, and good greens the other 4. I guess what I'm trying to say is I've seen first hand what an inappropriate diet can do to a rabbit and I am god help me I am NOT going to repeat those mistakes.

I spoke to my vet about kidney disease in rabbits, one of her theories is simply no or limited access to drinking water. Whether that is due to outdoor rabbits and a frozen water bowl, or a child that is unwilling/unable to care for their "starter pet" (grrrr), resulting in permanent damage the kidneys and/or setting up prime territory for an EC infection to take hold. I guess that's a redundant statement (permanent damage), in that kidney's do not repair themselves, from what i understand. Anyhow, this is just a theory of hers, and a pattern she's noticed.

I'm looking forward to getting his new labs, I actually have a good feeling about things after posting here.