My girl has EC

[tonyshuman]

I too agree an inner ear infection is more likely as a cause of loss of balance. It is important to treat that right away. Looking into the ear will probably not give your vet much indication of whether there is an infection or not--that will only tell if there is infection near the ear drum--the middle ear--all they can see with a scope), and the part of the ear that controls balance is deeper--the inner ear. I would just ask for antibiotics to be given.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Really sorry about your loss. It does hurt. Again very sorry.

As to my girls she does not have a big balance problem. She gets around normally and as I wrote only occasionally loses balance while in a strange position. She is hardly lethargic.

After reading about ear infections I had a tough night worrying. She is on Panacur andI won't stop it until 28 days are up. My vet has suggested Baytril but says she would need something to counteract the antibiotic in her tummy. Sounds okay but I do not know what to do as she will be ingesting 3 kinds of chemicals and that is not right. Just getting the Panacur into her is a struggle.

 

[Pipp]

Panacur is sweet, tastes great. You should be able to just put the dose with her food. I core-out a piece of carrot, apple or banana, stick the meds, put the cored part back in and leave it for them (if they don't take it from my hand) and they gobble it up.

Ditto with the pro-biotic. Its usually a good tasting powder, just sprinkle it on some pellets or treats a couple hours after the antibiotic. I use acidophilus in that manner.

The antibiotics are very important. Pro-biotics are advised but not crucial unless she shows signs of upset.

And I repeat: Not a lot of antibiotics are good for head-area infections, there's a hard-to-cross blood-brain barrier, Baytril is losing its effectiveness regardless, go for Chlor Palm. If you do insist on Baytril and it makes no difference after a couple of days, switch.

Lethargy is only a symptom in a VERY sick rabbit.

The infection can be there and under control in a well-nourished, happy rabbit, but once other factors stress the system, that can change suddenly and dramatically. A lot of it is holistic/supportive care.

sas

 

[Bill Jesse]

Today will be day 16 of the Panacur treatment and I am not seeing many changes. She seems absolutely normal, eats, sleeps, poops and runs and jumps. Her head tilt is not noticeable. However when she does get up on her hind quarters or bends around to wash her rear legs she wobbles and occasionally falls backward.

I was hoping to see some changes and am quite worried that I haven't. I do not believe it is an ear problem as I never see her paying any attention to them.

However I had another thought and obviously I am desperate. What if it is not EC? Do you think she is just a clumsy rabbit? Sounds strange I know but she is quite rotund and has small legs and I wonder if that could be simply the problem. She is not overweight but just very round.

Anyone ever heard of a 'clumsy' rabbit?

 

[Sweetie]

Bill Jesse wrote:

Today will be day 16 of the Panacur treatment and I am not seeing many changes. She seems absolutely normal, eats, sleeps, poops and runs and jumps. Her head tilt is not noticeable. However when she does get up on her hind quarters or bends around to wash her rear legs she wobbles and occasionally falls backward.

I was hoping to see some changes and am quite worried that I haven't. I do not believe it is an ear problem as I never see her paying any attention to them.

However I had another thought and obviously I am desperate. What if it is not EC? Do you think she is just a clumsy rabbit? Sounds strange I know but she is quite rotund and has small legs and I wonder if that could be simply the problem. She is not overweight but just very round.

Anyone ever heard of a 'clumsy' rabbit?

Whatbreed of rabbit is she?

 

[Bill Jesse]

She is what I call a "watered-down" English Spot. All white with big black patches around the eyes and in her case one small black spot on her lower back. Much like the third rabbit from the right in the Forum header photo.

She is about 10 months old, spayed and I have no idea of her parents.

 

[tonyshuman]

If you do indeed think this is EC and not an ear infection, I would ask about a different antiparasitic since you have not had measurable success with the Panacur. Marquis (ponazuril) has been much more effective than Panacur in treating EC.

It also may be a good time to reassess whether or not you think she has EC or an ear infection. I want to restate that head tilt and loss of balance is most often from an inner ear infection, not EC. Bunnies with head tilt and EC usually have an ear infection that was caused by their immune system being weakened by the parasite. I would treat with antibiotics, not antiparasitic.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Thank you. I have inquired about Marquis and it is about $1000 a tube in this area. The head tilt is hardly noticeable and it may be my paranoia thinking there is one. Her balance is not always affected but mostly when she leans left when washing her hind quarter.

As to the ear infection would there not be an other signs besdides tilt and loss of balance? She is not bothering her ears and she eats and does everything else normal. How would an inner ear infection be detected or would it just be taking a chance with medications?

I understand Baytril is the common med for this and how can it be dispensed to her? I do not want to have to struggle to hold her like I do now for the Panacur

 

[tonyshuman]

Often the only sign of an inner ear infection is a head tilt. The part that is infected is deep in the ear and cannot be seen with an otoscope. A number of medications could be used to treat it, Baytril being one of them. I would actually prefer to see them treat it with injectible penicillin or zithromax. There are injectible forms of many medications so if that is an easier way to get the drug into her for you, have your vet show you. There are a number of good ways to get bunnies to take oral meds. I kneel on the ground and put the bunny between my legs. I can hold him there with gentle pressure on each side. I then use my left hand to gently pick the head up a little bit off the ground and my right hand to squirt the medicine into the mouth behind the front teeth.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Thank you for the info. I have tried various ways and now it takes two of us as she wiggles and tosses her head. I have to hold it tight to prevent this without hurting her of course. She is not an easy bunny to hold obviously and would try her best to escape.

I am seeing the vet Wednesday to have him check the ear if he can. She is not showing signs of a tilt nor is she favouring her ears. But if only to set my mind straight.

 

[woahlookitsme]

If its a deep middle ear infection they wont be able to tell without her being sedated. I would ask to just treat for an infection and see if this helps her balance. Like i said before I really dont think its EC and If you would want to do the titer test its usually not that expensive

 

[Bill Jesse]

Here is the latest. Today was day 26 of the Panacur medication. I have seen no change in her symptoms. I took her to a rabbit savvy vet this week and he checked her out thoroughly. He did not see a head tilt at all. What he saw of her ears showed nothing. He checked her reflexes and they are top notch. One test was placing her on her back and letting her go. In a split second she was back up on her feet without problem.
I am really baffled by this and I have some observations and some questions. She lives in the same hutch as her best friend. I clean it out daily. I have been told I should seperate them but her friend is much too close and to split them would be more of a problem. I will take my chances. My rabbit runs like the wind and jumps. She also leaps up onto the second floor of her hutch. Eats well (constantly eating hay) and drinks well. All the feces I have found are normal as is the urine.
Here are the things that are bothering me. On occasion when up on her haunches she will roll backward. When reaching around to her left side she will lose her balance but recover. When she runs and then stops her body wobbles slightly two or three times. She does not fall while walking or running.
She is a watered down English Spot and weighs 2.4 kilos. She was spayed 5 weeks ago and at the time weighed 2.3 kgs. She is a very round rabbit. She has quite the muff around her chin. She was never a very active rabbit and I never noticed these symptoms before the spay.
My vet is wondering if there was some trauma which may have caused this unsteadiness.
Being quite rotund I wonder if that is a contributing factor. I do not overfeed her and her diet is mainly hay with a half cup of pellets daily. I also wonder if anyone has seen their rabbit lose their balance at times. I know my third rabbit, a Himmie has lost hers a couple of times but nothing more than that. She lives alone. I think it could be feasible that my subject rabbit is a bit clumsy especially being more round than most.
Sorry this is so long but obviously I am concerned. Finally the EC diagnosis was mine based on her wobble and what I thought was a head tilt. I have been dealing with many rescue rabbits lately and have seen the various problems some can have.
Again if anyone can comment, encourage me or whatever please do not hesitate.

 

[tonyshuman]

Was there any chance she "crashed" during the surgery, ie had a loss of breathing or heart rate? Sometimes the straps are tied too tight as well when they tie the animal down for surgery and nerve damage can occur as well...

 

[Bill Jesse]

There is always that possibility. This vet had already done over 100 of the rescue rabbits and did my other two the same day. What I did find strange was when I called to check on her (she was the last of my three that day) they told me she was in surgery and would be finished in about 40 minutes. I called back in an hour and she was still in surgery. Of course I spoke to the front desk and she may not have had any idea of what wasa happening.

 

[Sweetie]

tonyshuman wrote:

Was there any chance she "crashed" during the surgery, ie had a loss of breathing or heart rate? Sometimes the straps are tied too tight as well when they tie the animal down for surgery and nerve damage can occur as well...

Could a rabbit that "crashed" during any kind of surgery, have "tics" like tourette syndrome? Reason why I am asking is because Prince started his "tics" after he was neutered as I do remember him doing them after his neuter, then after every surgery he would lose his balance while waking up. Sweetie never did any of this, she woke up normal in my arms; and she has had only one surgery: the spay.

 

[tonyshuman]

I am not sure what the consequences of a cardiac arrest during surgery would be; I would assume some degree of brain damage due to lack of oxygen to the brain. I would think that the vet would tell you if your bunny's heart stopped beating during a surgery; it would not be prudent to do otherwise. During surgery the oxygen content of the blood and heart rate are also monitored, and it is possible that a bunny might not do well on anesthesia and have a low blood oxygen content without actually going into cardiac arrest. I don't know what kind of relationship you guys have with your vets; whether you'd be willing to ask that or not. It may be worth asking if your bunnies did not do well under anesthesia or had difficulty waking up. Brain damage could lead to some balance issues.

 

[Bill Jesse]

I like my vet. I plan to contact her this week. When I told her that I was having problems she was quite concerned and she called me twice after to check up on the rabbit. but now that I think of it she also gave me her home number when i left the surgery that day in case I needed her. That is interesting in itself.

 

[Sweetie]

Bill Jesse: you have a very good vet.

I have my vet's personal email address, and I will ask my vet if there was anything abnormal about the neuter surgery when he did it 2 years ago with Prince.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Is Prince having problems? My vet was involved with about 100 rescue rabbit spay/neuters and my rapport with her was good. I truly think she and I got along because she recognized my concern for all of the rescued rabbits.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Saw the vet and he put her through a series of reflex and nerve tests. All were good. One which was interesting was placing her on her back and then letting her go. She jumped right up on her feet in a split second.
He also checked the ears and saw nothing obvious and saw no head tilt.
I stopped the copurse of Panacur about 10 days ago after its 28 day course. She is no different now than she was prior to it. My main concern is her slight wobble after she runs. Usually once or twice then its fine. She did topple backward yesterday after reaching up on her haunches. It does not always happen. And as I mentioned before she is quite a "round" rabbit.