Lionhead rabbit

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Sweetie

Well-Known Member
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Mar 18, 2009
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Bremerton, Washington, USA
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pet/2112883156.html

I found this on craigslist. It is very disturbing because it says that this rabbit is less than 2 pounds and is a lionhead, a dwarf by sizing standards.

I emailed the person telling them that this rabbit is not healthy and that a lionhead should be between 3 to 3 1/2 pounds not less than 2 pounds.

I wish that I can take this rabbit and make it healthy, but I am hurting financially. I am thinking about talking to my vet and see what they can do to help if they can.

Any thoughts on this link, the craigslist ad?
 
Nothing in the ad says that he is purebred (purebred and pedigreed are different things). He could be the product of a nether land dwarf crossed with a lionhead. That could give him a dwarfing gene which would make him small. Some rabbit are just smaller than others and can still be healthy.
Lionheads are not yet a recognized breed with ARBA, so the individuals will vary in size quite a bit. You could have 2.5 pound ones and ones that are 5 pounds and both could be healthy weights.

Without seeing the rabbit and getting a good look and feel, you don't know if he is healthy or not. If you want to get him and get him checked out, that is great, but don't make assumptions based on a craisgslist ad. He doesn't look really skinny, but it can be hard to tell with the really furry ones.
 
This is what the poster emailed me back. I did apologize for sounding mean and that it was not my intention. I also asked her when was the last time the rabbit saw a vet, and where she bought the rabbit. I have not received an email back since I emailed a response to this one.


I read your email and have to say I am very surprised. I feel hurt that instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt you seem to have assumed I don't feed my rabbits properly. I feel attacked.

"Chip" is a perfectly healthy purebred (not mixed) Lionhead who happened to mature to a small size as an adult but still leads a healthy, normal life. Small animals can happen in nature and it does not always mean something is wrong or that the owner has underfed them. My bunnies are very important to me. I can appreciate that you are trying to look out for the safety of animals because I'm an animal lover myself, but at the same time, your approach was not as kind as it could have been. Please re-read what you wrote from my point of view. Do you feel how offended you would be if someone accused you of mistreating your lionhead mix doe, who I assume you take very good care of? That is how I felt after reading your email about my own rabbit.

Just to clear up one thing: your email mentioned he looks like a baby, yet my ad clearly reads he is pedigreed, and so, I would of course know his date of birth because it is on his pedigree. Your email, then, implies that I am lying about his age? Would it not make more sense that I - having his papers on hand - would know his age better than someone just looking at a photo? I have papers proving he is a year and a half old. His body, mane, developed genitals, and record of offspring may also serve as secondary proof. He is not a baby nor a junior and I certainly do not lie about my rabbits as I feel you have implied. This implication is an insult to my character. It saddens me and is completely unacceptable between people who do not know each other. Insults are not the way to approach someone when you have a concern for the well-being of an animal.

Finally, he had a record of producing normal, healthy babies before I purchased him. He was just barely under 2lbs when I bought him in March 2010, was full grown then, and I assume he remains at approximately the same weight. While he is purebred by definition, the lionhead is not an ARBA recognized breed so he may have an abundancy of netherland dwarf beyond the generations seen on his papers, which would account for his small size. Looking at his dwarf-like conformation I find this highly likely. This is often the case with lionheads: there is usually no way of knowing what exactly is beyond those first four generations. I can go into more detail if you would prefer as I fully researched the breed before I actually began breeding them.

I hope this email has halted your fears about Chip. I am open to answering any further questions you may have about him, but please do not write again without also taking some time to think over the message you're sending about YOU as a person. I also hope this email has not come off as rude; I only mean to defend myself and ensure you Chip is healthy.

Sincerely,
Colette


This rabbit is less than 2 lbs and full grown and purebred as stated in the email. I am very concerned for this rabbit. Financially I cannot take care of another rabbit, wish I could.
 
Some colours just passed the first presentation and I think they need 3 to be recognized so it will be at least 2 more years. It could be longer than that based on how they do at convention in the future and other factors. I don't fully know the whole process.
 
ive known breeders here with small lionheads...i have a customer with a ntherland dwarf that weighs barely over a pound. there are flemish who weigh 20 and some who weigh 9 dosnt mean these animals are underfed or mistreated...by the pictures he has no mats and its hard to say if hes under wight or not by the picture, but its not right to go off assuming everyone doesnt take care of their pets or brood properly if their not you just cause their smaller than the average...
 
She seems to know her stuff and she was very mature and polite in her response to you.

Honestly, I think it's just a small rabbit and she handled it better than I would have, I would have told you off, LOL
 
I wasn't tryng to assume anything. I was just concerned about the rabbit being less than 2 lbs. Here is what I told her when I first emailed her:

Hello! I saw your ad on craigslist and I am appalled at what I have read. I understand that this lionhead is a dwarf, but what I am appalled about is the fact that this lionhead is underweight. Lionheads are 3 to 3 1/2 pounds, they should not be less than that. Is this lionhead a purebred or a mix breed? I read that he is double maned which makes me believe that he is a purebred.

I have a lionhead mix and she is the correct weight at 3 1/2 pounds. Plus I know breeders that have lionheads that are the correct weight.

Again lionheads, mix or purebred should not be under 3 pounds or over about 4 pounds.

I will ask around and see if I can find someone to help get this lionhead the proper weight, because he is not healthy if he is less than 2 pounds. Plus he looks like a baby lionhead. Judging from the pic.


I may have come across as mean and assuming but that was not my intention at all. The lionhead that she has is the same size as my lionhead mix doe, Sweetie. She is 3.5 lbs. How can a rabbit be at a healthy weight when it is under 2 lbs? I just don't get it.
 
I don't see what the problem is - as a lionhead breeder I've had (and still have) rabbits in the 2 pound range and they've done fine. For a while - some breeders I knew were trying to breed closer to 2 pounds until someone pointed out that according to the standard - the ideal weight was around 3 1/2 pounds.

I've had over 100 lionheads over the years and I'm guessing that out of them - probably 6-8 stayed in the 2 - 2 1/2 pound range. I know in a couple of cases - it was because their parents were small or came from NDs in their background.
 
I'm not commenting on the weight, since I know nothing about this....but, why are Craigslist people always adversarial? They could be a bit more polite. And if they don't like the response....just ignore.
 
I never said that her rabbit was being underfed or unhealthy. I just stated that he was not a healthy weight. She assumed that I was implying that she was underfeeding and mistreating her rabbit, from what I wrote to her.

Also she probably thought that I was a child writing to her about her rabbit. I got that towards the end of the email she sent me which is posted above.

Slavetoabunny: Thank you! People who post on craigslist do lie about their animals and you really cannot tell who is lying and who isn't just by their ad. Some are very good people. The lady I got Sweetie from, was very nice. I would get another rabbit from her if I had the finances.

But this lady with the lionhead rabbit, was trying to be nice, but she wasn't. I found her email to be assaulting, because she assumed that I was implying that she underfed and mistreated the lionhead. If I thought that I would have been rude and mean. I was just stating that the rabbit was underweight and that it should be 3.5 lbs.
 
if someone told me that me that my rabbits were not at a healthy weight based off a picture i would feel very attacked, you dont know situations.

my holland lop weighs 2.3lbs as of a month ago and he is over a year old...is he unhealthy?

your being very judgemental and i think rude to her...like Brandy said. she prob felt very attacked by your comments and was defending herself exremely politely.
 
fuzz16: I didn't just go off a picture. I went off of what she put in the ad.

I have PMed a lionhead breeder and got the info I needed and now I understand this situation.

Plus I wasn't trying to be mean. The lady could have ensured me that the rabbit was healthy instead of attacking me for supposedly being mean.

See I didn't know that a rabbit can be underweight and be healthy also.
 
Because rabbits like people vary in size. I have two netherland dwarfs. One has barely hit 2lbs and the other is 3lbs. I have seen netherlands that hit 5lbs. A lot goes into the size of a rabbit.

I am going to put in bold what could upset her with your first response to her.


Sweetie wrote:
I wasn't tryng to assume anything. I was just concerned about the rabbit being less than 2 lbs. Here is what I told her when I first emailed her:

Hello! I saw your ad on craigslist and I am appalled at what I have read. I understand that this lionhead is a dwarf, but what I am appalled about is the fact that this lionhead is underweight. Lionheads are 3 to 3 1/2 pounds, they should not be less than that. Is this lionhead a purebred or a mix breed? I read that he is double maned which makes me believe that he is a purebred.

I have a lionhead mix and she is the correct weight at 3 1/2 pounds. Plus I know breeders that have lionheads that are the correct weight.

Again lionheads, mix or purebred should not be under 3 pounds or over about 4 pounds.

I will ask around and see if I can find someone to help get this lionhead the proper weight, because he is not healthy if he is less than 2 pounds. Plus he looks like a baby lionhead. Judging from the pic.


I may have come across as mean and assuming but that was not my intention at all. The lionhead that she has is the same size as my lionhead mix doe, Sweetie. She is 3.5 lbs. How can a rabbit be at a healthy weight when it is under 2 lbs? I just don't get it.
You responded to an ad with out full knowledge of the breed which while some breeders are working to get a certain standard not all are. Which makes for a wide range in size.
 
I had a lionhead buck that was larger and weighed around 5 lbs and he was a purebred. he ws not overfed thats just how he grew.

JadeIcing is right not everyone breeds for the standard so there are always gong to be varies in size and weight.

Crystal
 
Thank you JadeIcing. Next time I will be more careful.

I would like to know the lionhead breed more, because:

1. I love the breed
2. So that I will have knowledge of the breed.

Some things that I already know about lionheads:

1. They are susceptible to seizures, I know that any breed can have seizures especially BEW. Can REW's have seizures?

2. Lionheads are easy to train http://lionheadrabbit.net/genindex.htm

3. Lionheads are sweet and friendly.

4. Lionheads are sooooo cute

I would love to learn more about lionheads.
 
most lionheads i have known are testy and tempermental. prissy.

every rabbit is differnet, because they are dwarfs most (not all) are skittish and tend to like being left to themselves

there are single manes, double manes...and i think a double mane that some people call a teddy bear cause the fuzz is so thick over their body??

basic colors are less likely to have genetic issues healthywise because their not bred for the variety and line bred. so rew black maybe tort less likely to have seizures
 
I don't see anything wrong with this rabbit, some animals just stay small, It could be the runt of the litter.
 

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