just going to ask this question to you breeders straight out.....

[farmerchick]

i am not a breeder and i'm not looking to becoming a full time breeder, we plan on getting the one fixed since the others are but we have been considering breeding her once before we neuter her. we already have at least 5 homes for the kits, so welfare of the litter is not going to be a problem with me. i just want to ask a few questions to clarify things before/if i do this....

i would like to breed my mini rex with the brother of my other rabbit, who is a angora/holland lop mix that is white, orange and brown/black he is basically the size of a holland lop he doesn't look much like an angora.... (he is not related at all to the mini rex)

my questions:

can my female mini rex physically bare rabbits from a bigger baby? will the babies be ok? is there chances of deformity? how many could i expect in a litter and what would they look like?

this is the mother to be:

this is sophie the sister (don't have a pic of the brother) he is a little beefier then her, and has more dark and orange markings and similar fur, he has no ears but the mother bit them off when he was born, he was actually born with 2 lop ears.......


anyone have experience breeding these two breeds?

 

[fuzz16]

not to be rude or anything...but due to the fact there are a lot of rabbits in shelters and rescues right now, why breed more? even if you have people lined up. i can understand for show and to better a breed, but your talking about just making mutt rabbits. and while their personalities may be good there are a lot of good bunnies being PTS sadly right now with the economy.

and she is not extremely small looking so i dont think she would have much trouble, but as a first time mom you should not have high hopes, and if she is over a certain age you may not want to because the risks of loosing her would be higher during birth. i think over 6-8 months is to old to breed. someone feel free to correct me

 

[Flash Gordon]

im with Brenda on this too.

 

[TinysMom]

First of all - thank you for coming here to the rabbitry and show room and asking the BREEDERS to help you out here.

As one of the moderators for the rabbitry - I apologize for my absence recently - I hope to start spending more time here.

Now I'm going to answer you as a breeder - and keeping in mind the fact that we on the forum are not the bunny police and can't tell you what to do, etc.

If your buck is the size of a holland lop and if your doe is the size of a mini-rex, I do not see a problem breeding the two as far as the doe having kits. Many months ago I had a flemish giant buck get loose while some girls were having playtime and one of my girls wound up having some kits out of it. He was over 12 pounds and she was about 6 or 8 pounds and she did just fine. Mind you - it isn't recommended that you breed larger bucks to smaller does....but things can be ok.

My biggest concern is the age of your doe. How old is she? I want to say that it is not recommended to do a first-time breeding of a doe that is a mini-rex after 9-12 months of age.

I'm not good at giving all the reasons - I forget whether it is the pelvic bones fusing or whatever...but basically - the doe can have a much harder time with labor and delivery.

I can't tell you what your babies would look like - I'm guessing they might have half-lopped ears or something and maybe some of the rex fur. Remember that each baby has the chance to come out differently - meaning if you had a litter of four - one might be lopped - two might not be - one might be half-lopped, etc.

Now I see you're in backwoods Canada and I'm guessing that there are not rabbits in shelters up there and so overcrowding may not be an issue where you are (its certainly not an issue where I am here in Del Rio, TX and you have to go 150 miles to get a rabbit unless you know a breeder). And I know you say that you have homes lined up for 5 babies - but I also want to point out that frequently by the time the babies are ready to be weaned - people back out of adopting them.

So if that happens - are you prepared and/or willing to take care of the litter and provide homes for them until you find them homes for sure?

My final question - and I promise you - I'm not being mean - but I will share my story at the end of this....

May I ask WHY it is so important to you to breed this one time - particularly when you are not looking at breeding on a regular basis?

I'll share my story and maybe it will help you understand.

When I first got into rabbits - I had a flemish giant, two netherland dwarfs, two lionheads and a holland lop. I fell in love with lionheads and was convinced I'd be a good breeder and there were people who would want them....so I bought some lionheads to breed.

Unfortunately - I also bred one of my pet lionheads. After the breeding - she was never quite herself. The breeding was traumatic for her....and her personality changed some. Then - before she could start to wean the babies - her immune system started breaking down.

Shortly over a year later she died from e cunniculi....after a fairly long illness.

To this day - I am convinced that somehow or another - breeding her and allowing her to have those babies contributed to her immune system having issues as she got older. I believe I'd have her today if I hadn't bred her....and I've missed her now for quite a while.

I say this because many people think it would be "fun" to breed a pet rabbit....to see what babies are like - and yes -it can be fun to have babies.

But are you prepared to *possibly* have issues later on down the road because perhaps that rabbit was not a good candidate for breeding?

I have no problems with breeding - I AM a breeder. But I will never ever again breed a rabbit that is a "pet" to me. I learned that lesson the hard way.

I want to wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide.

Peg

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

I liked Peg's answer, I think she hit on all the major points.

I just want to add a little more though to her story, not to boss you around or tell you what to do. But I want you to know the very real truths of breeding before you find yourself in a bind.

First litters can be rough on the doe, especially in rabbits who are not specifically bred for reproduction (purebred rabbits). Purebred rabbits are not only bred to a standard so that they look pretty for the judge, but they are also bred to be physically and mentally sound for reproduction- after all, if they can't produce, they are of little use in a breeding program where future generations are of most importance. So already, your doe may not be physically sound to be bred.

Like Peg mentioned, how old is the doe? A smaller to medium sized doe should be bred for the first time between 6-8 months, preferably as soon as they hit maturity (6 months). There are a lot of risks for first time mothers as it is, but breeding them for the first time beyond this age increases risk for complications.

Assuming she is in the right age, there are a few other things you must be prepared for.

Since they must be bred young, some does are physically mature enough to handle a litter but not mentally mature enough. Instead of kindling in the nestbox, they may "scatter" the babies all over the cage. If they're not caught in time, they will chill and die. Not exactly fun to come into.

Other complications also exist, including peanuts, which are kits who inherit a double dwarfing gene. They look normal at birth, but as the days go on, they are unable to digest food properly and they slowly die.

On the other hand, some does simply stop feeding their litter because their maternal instincts have not fully kicked in yet, even though their body is physically able to reproduce.

And an even worse case scenario? Kindling complications can cause illness or death not only in the kits, but also in the doe. This was a hard lesson to learn years ago when I decided to breed one of my pet does for "just one litter" and lost her.

I will stop there and spare you from even worse case scenarios, but those are the more common complications that you can be faced with. Some does do deliver a perfect, healthy litter the first time. But it is not uncommon for complications to arise, and most breeders do not put any hope in first litters. If it goes well, YAY! But seasoned breeders know not to expect much from that first time around, and often plan to rebreed and try again after the "trail" litter. So most likely, it won't be a one-shot-and-done deal.

Breeding is not all fun and games and cute babies, which I'm sure you realized. But often times, it can be downright sad and depressing, depending on the outcome. Just make sure that if you still choose to do this, you research every possible outcome and are prepared to handle them yourself because a forum sometimes simply can't respond fast enough in some situations.

Regardless of your choice, I wish you all the best! And maybe if you decide not to try this breeding in particular, we could help you find a breeder to work with where you could get a proven, experienced buck and doe pair for hobby breeding.

 

[farmerchick]

ok, i would like to explain myself before everyone thinks i'm just doing this becuase i'm an ignorant pet rabbit owner....


first of all in regards to the first post-- i've rescued 3 rabbits from shelters. i even rescued a one eared lop rabbit who no one wanted. 2 of them have come from the Toronto Humane Sociey, infact i'm waiting on one from there right now who has an absess in his dewlap and is being treated for it. i am not one to get a rabbit just because it "looks cute" or i seen it at the pet store...

and in regards to the welfare of my rabbits i have c & c cages and a penned off LARGE area in my living room where they run free and where i can see them and socialise with them. they even take turns coming to the couch for cuddles, i have tons of spare cages and if i were to have a litter and no one wanted them i have the room to keep them/foster them until someone wants them.


and also i'm not one to judge, even though i feel as though i have been judged here because i am not a professional "rabbitry" if breeding is this risky (and yes i have researched breeding) then why do it? if it breaks your hearts so much to loose litters and does then why is it ok if you don't "love" your breeding rabbit, or consider it a pet?

just some food for thought---- i am not judging any of you, all i ask is you don't assume i'm an ignorant "pet" owner.

Also, my INTENTIONS for this litter is to keep at least one of the kits. ever since i got wanda (the doe i want to breed) i've always wanted to breed her because she is so pretty and i love her personality. she is 7 months old now. the buck is the brother of one of my other rabbits (that someone else owns) and the reason i picked him as the buck is becuase of his similarity to his sister (who i can't breed becuase i don't want to seperate her from her bonded neutered partner)

i am prepared to take this on, i have a rabbit vet who i've gone to before who is really good and easy to get a hold of on an emergency type basis. i've even seen him on weekends.

i think i covered everything here i wanted to say, might come back and write more later...


PS i am NOT judging breeders, my attitude with it all is "to each his/her own" all i ask is don't judge me becuase my rabbits are pets to me. all i'm asking about is the actual logistics of breeding a rex to a lop, and what to expect. i couldn't find specific research that said breeding lops to a rex would cause catistrophic results...

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Breeders do it because they have the experience. They've either been mentored by other breeders, or have done TONS of research, and know everything that could happen and could go wrong. They get the possible needed medical supplies before their litters are due, and they breed for health, temperament, and to Better the Breed. Your only reason is because the doe is pretty, and you like her personality. Breeders don't toss two rabbits together because they are pretty, have good personalities, and "just want cute babies!"

Are you under the impression that breeders don't love their rabbits? Breeders definitely love their rabbits. They may not all consider them pets, but when you raise anything, you have to have love for it, and the hobby. Otherwise, you're going to be discouraged more times than not.

I want to mention, that your rabbit is not a Mini Rex, by the way. She doesn't have the fur of a Mini Rex - could be crossed with one, but most likely she's just a Dwarf mix. As far as the buck goes, he's not too large (sounding, I should mention, hah). Dwarfs are small, anywhere from 2 to 6-ish pounds, and Holland Lops fit in that category.

I just want to clarify - Do you have a back-up plan in case those homes you say you have lined up, decide not to get a bunny? And what happens if you have more than you can find homes for?

These are all things that you'll need to consider if you decide to go through with this.

Emily

 

[farmerchick]

its not just for cute babies, i have lots of ppl wanting the kits, and i also to plan to keep one to bond with the doe. i have back up plans and actually more ppl want a kit than the amount of kits that will probably result from it, it will be first come first serve if the litter survives. and if no one takes them i have extra cages and room for them and can afford to keep them perminantly or foster until i can find homes later on.

also, the doe is a dwarf/mini rex mix. her fur is soft like a rex, but thicker and shorter like a dwarf.

i also want to have the litter to experience it, and possibily get into breeding in the future. we own our own home and land, so number of animals isn't an issue with us like it would be for ppl that rent. our rabbits are well looked after weather there is 3 of them or 15 of them. so if no one takes a kit, i will keep them.

i'm not looking to start anything here, i don't want to be judged for this because i'm not just going to do this without alot of research and consideration of the overall result.

thankyou for the info, it is definately some food for thought

 

[Silver Star Rabbitry]

She should be able to bare the litter.

They say that over 1 year, a doe's pelvic bones will fuse, causing her to not be able to deliver the kits naturally. My experience is that they will be able to kindle them fine, but may be more difficult to get bred.

When I was just starting out in breeding, my Dwarf Hotot doe died with retained kits. I have not lost a doe due to pregnancy since then. It is pretty uncommon to lose a doe from pregnancy, even if it is a first timer. If I were you I would try to find an other breeder in your aria that is breeding a doe, or 2 at the same time that you do yours, that way if her instincts don't kick in, or she has more than she can handle, you can foster them. When breeders breed first time does, we try to breed at least 1 proven do at the same time.

Emily

Silver Star Rabbitry
Raising and Showing Quality Silver Marten Rabbits in North Louisiana.

http://silverstarsilvermartens.webs.com/
http://silverstarrabbitry.blogspot.com/

[email protected]

 

[farmerchick]

ok thank you for the info... when a doe retains kits is there anything a vet can do? is there signs when it happens so we could maybe save her? or will they die suddenly?

 

[Silver Star Rabbitry]

Retained kits are uncommon. This doe was at day 38, or so. On the last day all that she would do is sit in her nest box, strain and grind her teeth. At first I thought that she was finally going into labor, but she went down hill really fast after that and there was not anything that I could do for her. C-sections can be used to try to save a doe and her kits, but they are pretty risky and sometimes the doe will die from the stress of having one.

Emily

Silver Star Rabbitry
Raising and Showing Quality Silver Marten Rabbits in North Louisiana.

http://silverstarsilvermartens.webs.com/
http://silverstarrabbitry.blogspot.com/

[email protected]

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

farmerchick wrote:

and also i'm not one to judge, even though i feel as though i have been judged here because i am not a professional "rabbitry" if breeding is this risky (and yes i have researched breeding) then why do it? if it breaks your hearts so much to loose litters and does then why is it ok if you don't "love" your breeding rabbit, or consider it a pet?

None of my comments were in regards to the welfare of your rabbits, and I am not judging you or making assumptions about what kind of owner you are. You said that you wanted some advice about what can happen if you bred your two rabbits, and that is simply what I am telling you.

As a breeder (just so I'm speaking for myself and not making assumptions about others), I breed to improve the health of the breeds I work with. Like I previously mentioned, for reproductive health, to continue to work on other areas. Also to breed for disease resistance and breed out genetic or breed-specific complications. I also breed to improve the temperament of my breeds.

I am breeding for improvement, with a very specific goal in mind, and my breeding pairs are chosen to compliment each other. This is very different than breeding two pet quality rabbits that came to me by "fate". It is not that there is anything wrong with pet rabbits as pets, but they are pets for one of two reasons:

1. They were undesirable as breeding animals and are not considered to be an improvement of the breed.
2. They have undesirable genetic characteristics.

Again, I am not judging you by saying this. I am only trying to educate you on why certain rabbits are not already a part of the breeding environment and what problems you may face because of this (which is, I thought, what you were wanting).

To tie this all in, I breed for improvement. When I see that improvement, it's EXCITING! I'm not saying it's not and I won't deny that breeding is FUN. If it weren't fun, I wouldn't be doing it. But as breeders, we also experience a lot of losses and a lot of heartbreak. For the most part, we are able to love our rabbits, but still separate ourselves from them a little emotionally. Whereas, I would be (and was) absolutely devastated when my pet doe passed away from breeding complications. It still happens that I get very emotionally attached to certain special breeding rabbits too. But on the whole, we are able to take the perspective of the betterment of the herd, which is a little different than a beloved pet.

 

[Skybunny11]

farmerchick wrote:

and also i'm not one to judge, even though i feel as though i have been judged here because i am not a professional "rabbitry" if breeding is this risky (and yes i have researched breeding) then why do it? if it breaks your hearts so much to loose litters and does then why is it ok if you don't "love" your breeding rabbit, or consider it a pet?

Also, my INTENTIONS for this litter is to keep at least one of the kits. ever since i got wanda (the doe i want to breed) i've always wanted to breed her because she is so pretty and i love her personality. she is 7 months old now. the buck is the brother of one of my other rabbits (that someone else owns) and the reason i picked him as the buck is becuase of his similarity to his sister (who i can't breed becuase i don't want to seperate her from her bonded neutered partner)

First off, I would consider myself a rabbit breeder, I don't know how proffesional I am, lol, but I do breed/sell/show rabbits. It breaks my heart to loose litters, does, any rabbits. I do it for the experience, and those rabbits that I don't loose, bring me a lot of joys. I am sure most breeders on here love there rabbits, some have gotten less attached to there rabbits then others because they are use to selling/loosing them. Brood and show rabbits arent considered pets because they usually don't live in the house and they are mainly rabbits they have for some real specific reason, my brood rabbits are treated like pets though. They get all the love as my mixed breed "pet" rabbits and treats and what not.

Second, I think its great you want the experience of raising a litter, but you have to keep in mind that the kits probably wont turn out with the personality of there parents. My lil' guy Sky, is nothing like his dad or mom! They are/were (his mom passed away) great bunnies who loved attention and treats, Sky doesnt like to be held, he is shy, and he bites people who he is unfamiliar with. Since they are mixed breeds they probably wont look like Wanda too. They might but due to the mixing of colors/breeds it very unlikely. I am not saying you shouldnt breed them I am just saying that since you say you want a kit like Wanda, that might not happen.

Good luck with your decision though! If you do breed her make sure to post pictures of the kits when they come

 

[polly]

Hi, always a hard question to answer as you will know since you have recued rabbits yourself so know there can be lots of rabbits needing home in shelters.
Everyone has given you great answers so I would advise make a list of what people have told you and answer the questions yourself.
as in for me it would go something like this
1) are both rabbits young fit and healthy ie teeth, no underlying health problems that you know of

2) Are they of a similar size

3) if the doe has problems do you have good vets/ money to take the doe in as an emergency and be able to pay it

4) how am I going to cope with dead kits, kits with potential problems although culling is not spoken of a lot will you be able to take the right decision for a baby that is suffering

5) can you get homes for them and would you be able to take them back if peoples situations changed rather than add to rabbits in shelter

6) do you have the money to take care of them up to them being rehomed.

I am sure there are more lol but people covered it I find looking at it like this and answering each question will make it clearer in your own head whether or not you can cope good luck

 

[Purple Mountain Rabbitry]

There is no problem with crossbreds. They can be shown in crossbred and meat classes both 4H/FFA and open. (at least at our fairs) and they make awesome pets. Yes there can be problems with breeding. thats life and it comes with the territory. I love all my rabbits and would be devestated if I lost any one of them. But I would move on. I also have a crossbred doe I would like a litter out of, so I can have one of her babies to show CB and Herd (Doe-Buck-Kit).

Crystal

 

[Jaded]

Oh My Darlin Rabbitry wrote:

There is no problem with crossbreds. They can be shown in crossbred and meat classes both 4H/FFA and open. (at least at our fairs) and they make awesome pets. Yes there can be problems with breeding. thats life and it comes with the territory. I love all my rabbits and would be devestated if I lost any one of them. But I would move on. I also have a crossbred doe I would like a litter out of, so I can have one of her babies to show CB and Herd (Doe-Buck-Kit).

Crystal

I agree, cross breeding invents new breeds as well.

 

[Purple Mountain Rabbitry]

True thats how we got mini rex, crossing a dwarf with a lynx rex.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

I am responded to 2-3 of the above posts, but can't quote you all I don't think!

Anyway, yes, it is true that crossbreeding can be beneficial, especially in the meat industry to improving efficiency of production. And yes, crossbreeding is how we developed all of our pure breeds at one time.

However, I also encourage those who are considering crossbreeding to look at the larger context of those situations. The rabbits are bred for a purpose, either to add more productivity to the commercial market or to merge desired characteristics from two different breeds into one.

Crossbreeding for market can be done easily and success can be achieved even in one generation. However, creating a breed takes generations upon generations. One generation will not give you the results you desire (fur texture, temperment, etc.) right away, this takes a few more generations of linebreeding and channeling the specific genes you want into one rabbit. I don't think either situation is relatable to crossbreeding one litter of pets.

This, again, is not to try and sway anyone in one direction over another. I only make decisions for my rabbits and my herd, and everyone has that freedom too. I'm only throwing that thought out there for consideration, along with all the other great advice above.

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

I am responded to 2-3 of the above posts, but can't quote you all I don't think!

Anyway, yes, it is true that crossbreeding can be beneficial, especially in the meat industry to improving efficiency of production. And yes, crossbreeding is how we developed all of our pure breeds at one time.

However, I also encourage those who are considering crossbreeding to look at the larger context of those situations. The rabbits are bred for a purpose, either to add more productivity to the commercial market or to merge desired characteristics from two different breeds into one.

Crossbreeding for market can be done easily and success can be achieved even in one generation. However, creating a breed takes generations upon generations. One generation will not give you the results you desire (fur texture, temperment, etc.) right away, this takes a few more generations of linebreeding and channeling the specific genes you want into one rabbit. I don't think either situation is relatable to crossbreeding one litter of pets.

This, again, is not to try and sway anyone in one direction over another. I only make decisions for my rabbits and my herd, and everyone has that freedom too. I'm only throwing that thought out there for consideration, along with all the other great advice above.

This for the most part. The origional poster already has rabbits from a shelter and should see before the breeders on here the problems with too many rabbits without a home.

Since it's brought up everytime someone disagrees with a crossbreeding of rabbits, not all fairs have 'pet' rabbit classes. Mine did, and the judge just talked about it and sent you back to your cage. You won no ribbins, and it could not compete for best of show or anything. What is the point? But I also agree there are too many rabbits being bred just to do it. Breedings should have a purpose, and to make a breed better. You can't compare 'oh thats how we got the mini rex' to a one time breeding. I was working with the velveteen lops for a while, and its a HUGE pain and isn't just crossing a rabbit with this rabbit.


anyways, also, I don't think anyone mentioned it, but there is a big chance she will loose her first litter. It's common in first time mothers, and is pretty heartbreaking to be honest. And if you're trying to keep a kit with its mother make sure it is fully 100% weened, and doesnt try to nurse ever. The loosing the first litter is one of the things that's hard to deal with. Raising a litter is def fun and exciting, to me its more exciting finding kits then christmas ever was. so have fun with it.

 

[TinysMom]

Well - it sounds like you've heard lots of pros and cons...I hope we've given you helpful information and not made you feel at all judged.

If you decide to breed- make sure to share pictures of the babies with us!!!