I think I need a rabbit whisperer...

[funnybunnymummy]

Well, Gus seemed to be improving, but this last week he has been downright incorrigible!

Every little thing we do seems to irritate him and we get growled at, our feet or hands get boxed,and our clothes, and sometimes even skin,nipped. He's decided the dining room table makes a good hidey place and now if we sit there we get the brunt ofhis disapproval.

The kids have been much better about picking him up, buthe growls and scrabbles even worse than before if we have to pick him up.

We've also stopped pinning him. If we try to pet him he growls and nudges us, I've been trying to gently push his head down and continue petting him. It seemed to be working, but this week he's back to being grumpier than ever. :grumpy

Hubby went away again last weekend and the kids had a three day weekend and I think that might have upset him. But really, he can't just take it out on the whole family! This is unacceptable!

I've decided that he's getting his treats cut off. I think that may be part of the problem. I think heassociates our hands with treats and when he doesn't get a treat (and instead a pet), he gets growly. That's just not cool!

Anyway, we'll try this for 2 weeks and see if there's any improvement.

He tried to nip hubby last night when he offered him a raisin. I didn't think he'd be so brazen, but he's really treading thin ice trying to nip the boss!

Any thoughts or suggestions how else to deal with this?

Thanks!

Rue

 

[kirbyultra]

Aw, that's sad. Gus is being a naughty boy!

Maybe some general adjustments to the way he is handled. I wouldn't try to pin him down for extra petting if he is not in the mood for it. If he is done with you, let him go and do his thing. The more you try to make him stay, the more it reinforces the idea in his head that he needs to break free by any means necessary. Do the children pick him up for playing/snuggling? There are some buns who get increasingly stressed out the more they are handled. Try to let him be in his free will as much as possible and see if he improves. It may take a lot of time but he'll come to you when he wants some love. I think you're right, the 3 day weekend might be one cause of his irritation.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Thanks, Helen!

To clarify: I'm not pinning him down. It's when he's already lying down and I go to pet him, he'll growl and nudge my hand. But if I continue to pet him, gently pushing his head down, he'll settle and let me pet him.

The kids aren't allowed to pick him up. For the most part they don't. It's been a slow process--especially with my twelve-year-old, who couldn't seem to figure out that if you call Gus, he will come to you! No need to go get him and pick him up!

The only snuggling theyattempt to do with himis tolie beside him and pet him when he's already lying down. We've given up trying to get him on the couch. He'll come up for a treat, eat the treat, and then hop down again. Until he actually wants to be on the couch with us, I don't see the point in trying to train him to do it.

He's left to his own free will pretty much all the time now. And even before, he was still pretty much left alone 75% of the time.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that the treats are the source of the problem.

Rue

 

[kirbyultra]

Could be...

I personally don't see any issue with removing treats completely if you feel it is attributing to his bitey spells. I wonder how he would react if you hide his treats around the home? So he discovers them on his own, like a game?

 

[funnybunnymummy]

To be honest, I'm grasping at straws.

When Gus came to us he was really skittish and aloof. Everything I read, said to use treats to gain his trust. Well, now he's not skittish anymore. But he's still aloof. Heseems irritated with our attempts at interacting with him. He's quite happy to accept a treat from us (and maybe a few pets while he eats it), then he doesn't want anything to do with us anymore.

He's even got to the point, I think, where he expects a treat every time we put our hands near him. So he growls and tries to nip because he thinks we should be giving him a treat, not trying to pet him or pick him up or whatever.

I don't know. But it's really frustrating! anic:

Rue

 

[funnybunnymummy]

OMG, this is totally how Gus is behaving:

Off with you! Banished from the kingdom

While it's easy to make a rabbit very happy with some fine petting, it's also very easy to offend the rabbit. Uninvited petting, playing that interrupts lounging time or failing to show respect may elicit a response demonstrating how much the owner has offended the rabbit.

If you somehow engage in an offensive behavior, the rabbit will let you know by hopping away from you and turning sideways. That's an indignant "well" response. They might hop away with an exaggerated manner, flicking their feet at you. The exaggerated foot flick is a general signal, used when your rabbit wants nothing to do with you - or when he feels he has outsmarted you by grabbing his treat from your hand and dashing off with it.

Continued offensive behavior like pursuing the rabbit, thrusting your hand in front of his face again, or trying to pick the rabbit up, will likely earn you the next response in the offendedness scale. The rabbit will move away from you again and turn his back to you. You have just been frozen out.

Although you should consider these actions a warning, if you proceed and continue with the offensive behavior, you'll stretch the rabbit's patience. If you do that, you may earn the last warning signs to back off, and the rabbit may put its ears back, growl, lunge at you, and maybe even nip at your hand. Don't say you weren't warned.

While it's easy to offend a rabbit, it's also easy to be forgiven. Waiting a little while and then offering some petting again will likely put you back in good graces. You can always try the food approach because the way to a rabbit's heart is definitely through the tummy. A veggie snack or a little piece of fruit might buy your way out of the doghouse - this time.

http://www.adoptarabbit.com/articles/packet/behavior.html

It usually starts with one of us approaching him. He'll run toward us, ears pricked forward. "Treat for bunny?" If we don't have one and instead try to pet him, he'll turn his back on us. "No treat. I disapprove." If we still try to pet him,that's whenhe'llgrowl and lunge, either nudging us or nipping.

I remember reading about "Royal Rabbits" (I think on the Language of Lagomorphs). I'm pretty sure that's what Gus has crowned himself.

Rue

 

[kirbyultra]

Gus sounds a lot of like my Toby. Except my Toby doesn't nip or growl. The most he'll do is ear-slap my hand, paw at me real quick and run away. Sometimes I'll get his back turned on me and a harmless, but nonetheless angry thump. He will come check me out every so often, even nose-bump me for some attention, but he still wouldn't let me pet him even though HE's the one who came to ME. Needless to say, if I go to pet him first, I get bunnitude from him. It's almost a given!

With Toby, it took me a year to realize he's not only skittish, but fearful. He did some crazy aggressive things to my other bunny, Kirby, during the course of their sharing a room together that I could never understand. Perhaps your Gus has a similar personality issue? Here's my thread of the stuff he used to do when he was with Kirby. http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=56121&forum_id=48

If a bunny doesn't want to have anything to do with his humans, it is unfortunate but generally unsurprising. Some buns simply aren't as open to being pet or touched. It took the greater part of the year for Toby to not freak out and race away when I come within 5 ft of him. Maybe about 6 months after I got him I started to let him do this own thing. I hardly ever handled him except when he *really* needed to get a nail trim or to be groomed because he was shedding nonstop for months. And even then I tried to do as much as possible without bugging him. It seems like the less I paid attention to him the more he started to trust me. I wasn't eagerly waiting for his attention anymore, waiting for the opportunity to pet him. He would come up to me and my limbs would completely ignore him while my eyes silently followed his movements. Instead of touching him I'd take pictures of him from afar (and them crop the pic down to size on the computer!) Only about a month ago did he start to lie down near me on his own accord for petting. Before that, if he was relaxing on the floor and I reached my arm out, he was zipping away before I could get a finger near him...

I can imagine how frustrating it would be if the bun was nippy in addition to being "aloof". It is really my belief that the more you ignore a rabbit the more they'll come around to you. :thumbup No treats either because that's cheating for attention

 

[Amy27]

Gus sounds like my Little Bunny. I really stopped trying to pet her a lot. I still spend time with her. I sit and talk to her and play with toys with her. One thing I have been trying is to always end the pets on a positive note. So I will only pet her for a few seconds and then stop. That way I am stopping before she starts grunting or running off. Then I will just sit and talk with her.

I never force her to be pet. If it truly is something she doesn't like. I don't want to force it on her. If I pet her and she grunts, I will stop and sit and talk with her. That way I am not petting her but I am not going away either.

However, in my case, LB has never tried to bite me. She just grunts and will box. You should check out the animal communicator thread that is going on. http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=56812&forum_id=5

Good luck. I know how frustrating it can be.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Thanks, guys.

Yes, he does that too, Helen (in fact he just did it half a minute ago!), where he comes up to me, starts nudging my foot and nipping my pants, trying to get my attention. But if I reach down to pet his head, he hops off and gives me this evil look, like, "Did I say you could pet me?" :rollseyes

For the most part it doesn't bother me. But just this week he's been in a particular snit and has been, it seems like, punishing us all for it. That,more than anything, is whathas me (and hubby and the kids too) so frustrated this week.

Fortunately, this afternoon turned out to be beautiful and sunny, soGus was allowed to go run around the whole backyard (now that it's properly bunny-proofed! ) and that seemed to put him in a much better mood.

Anyway, though I still am not too impressed with his bunnitude, finding that information has helped put some of this into perspective. At least I know he doesn't hate us.

Little turd. :grumpy

Rue

 

[kirbyultra]

LOL - yup... Lil turds!

 

[funnybunnymummy]

And just to make me look bad, he just sat there andlet me pet him (on the floor, of course)for the last 10 minutes. :rollseyes

Rue

 

[elrohwen]

I'm all for the ignore tactics. He might never want to be petted :-(

My guy doesn't growl or nip, but at least 80% of the time I try to pet him he hops off and gives me bunny butt. He does the pushing and digging on my pants thing too, but definitely does not want pets. I think just sitting with him and playing is what he wants.

 

[Rabbit Hero]

Shino is the same. I only pet him if he asks me for it first. But if I lie down on the floor with him I get bunny kisses for hours! I've gotten into the habit if reading a book on the floor with him. This seems to make him extremely content as he can give me kisses, walk up and down my back, and even try to eat the book I'm reading.

I still play with him and do other things to spend time with him. But he generally doesn't like physical attention.

I have heard of rabbits cooling down after they get bonded. Have you considered that possibility with Gus?

Best of luck!

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Gus doesn't seem to know how to play. I really believe he's got issues because he was locked in a hutch and ignored most of his life. I realize hewill likelynever become a "pick me up and cuddle me" bunny, but it would be nice if he'd be just a tad bit more interactive: playing, accepting pets, etc. without having to bribe him with treats all the time (and then getting serious bunnitude when we don't! :rollseyes)

Anyway, I don't know if we'll get there or not, but cutting off his treats has seemed to help. It's only been 3 days and already I've noticed a change in him. Whereas before he would basically demand treats, now he seems to be like, "Hey, guys, where's my treats? Did you forget about them? Hey! Helloooo? Somebody pay attention to me! Helloooo?" :laughsmiley:

He's still not very trusting of the kids or hubby and they get plenty of bunnitude from him. But he's let me reach down and "scritch" his forehead a few times in the last few days, something he'drarely, if ever,let me do before. Usually, he'd just sniff my hand and give me bunny butt for not offering a treat. Turd!

Rabbit Hero: I would LOVE to find Gus a bond-mate. Preferably a niceaffectionate one!I think it would be good for him and for us.

Thanks again for the help!

Rue

 

[elrohwen]

Do you ever kiss him on the forehead? Not sure if that would be safe, since he has nipped before, but Otto is much more receptive of kisses than pets. If I just start petting he's sure to hop away and give me bunny butt. If I crawl up and start kissing, he'll often settle in and then I can pet him. He's much less nervous about faces than hands.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Oh yeah. Sometimes he's okay with it, sometimes not. :rollseyes

I don't worry about him nipping. He's nipped hard only once. For the most part he only nudges usor nipsat our clothes. If he does nip skin, he just puts his teeth against our skin. But that'sVERY rare. He's more apt to nudge and nip/dig at our clothes.

Sometimes when he's annoyed with me, he'll pull my slippers off and start chewing them, digging at them, and throwing them around."See how mad I am at you! I'm killing your slippers!"

I really wish I understood him better. He seems to be all over the map from day to day. Sometimes he's super friendly and even affectionate, then the next day he's aloof and grumpy. You just don't know what you're gonna get! :shock:

Rue

 

[elrohwen]

I love the slipper attack! Both of my bunnies will take out their rage on other objects. Otto loves to chew my magazines, so if he gets one and I take it away, he'll take a chomp at the coffee table like - "You take away my magazine toy, I will bite your furniture!" He never even leaves a mark, but it's like he has to bite something because he's mad at me. They're so silly.

I'm sorry he's such a moody guy. Otto doesn't grunt, but he's similar - some days he loves snuggles, and other days I get the bunny butt immediately. I've started just petting him 1-2 times - just long enough that I know he won't get annoyed and run away. If he wants more pets than that he'll let me know, but at least then I stop before he gets ticked.

 

[kirbyultra]

You know, Laura, you bring up a really good point. Buns are generally more wary of hands than faces. That's why people recommend new bunny owners to get down on the ground with the bun. Not just sitting but if you can, all the way down flat against the floor so your head is at their level. I can't tell you how many weeks I was lying down on my back and my stomach in Kirby's pen when I first adopted him before he'd let me near him. Toby usually lets me kiss him if I lie on the ground, but selectively lets me give him scritches as well. :wink

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Hehe! I'll have to get the slipper attack on video one day. It's really funny to watch! :rofl:

I think I may have to go back to basics with him. I did a lot of sitting and laying on the floor when he first came to live with us, but lately not as much.We do get down on my hands and knees to pet him, though.

Meh. Silly rabbit!

Rue

 

[elrohwen]

They are a bit ridiculous, aren't they?