I need some guidance.

[Saurabh]

Hey guys. First of all i would like to say thank you to everyone in this community for your excellent and helpful guidance. Before registering i was just looking few threads and i found the replies very helpful.

I think it's going to be a lengthy one so pls read it all and don't leave in between. I'm not sure if I am posting this in right section. Please move this thread if this is not in the right one.

I had a rabbit who we usually called "bunny". It was a pure white ( i guess Indian breed). My brother's friend bought him for me on 21 march 2013 and i really loved him. He was like my own child. But unfortunately I didn't read anything about how to care for pet rabbits. I just checked Wikipedia for basic things. Now i regret it. :/
He is no more.

I and me bro used to clean him daily with WATER which caused a skin allergy(Dead cells began to appear all over his nose, eyes, ears , and legs) and lil fur loss near his neck region. The day when he lost his fur I asked my parents to take him to a vet( We really don't have any vets nearby. only available vets are not good and too far away from the place where we live). Vet said he is ok u can give him everything that u daily give him and wrote few medicines. 1 was a vitamin or some nutrients drops. one was a liquid solution which was to be applied on areas having dead cells to remove them safely. 3rd one was a cream for the region of fur loss.

The date we took him to the vet was 22 nov 2013. And till then we were applying medicine daily. But since 22-25 December a foul smell started coming from his body. AT first we thought it's because we didn't clean him since a long time but we didn't clean him because doctor said not to bath him. At that time i didn't know that we've to just clean it's back region.
His butt/back region became poopy and smelly. He was acting normally without any strange behavior (which i read is some of rabbit's survival techniques). We thought of taking him to the vet on 6th jan as Monday is a holiday for me father every week.
On 5th Jan 2014, i was playing pc games when my mom called me and told me that bunny is inside bed lying in strange way. I took him out and he was all hard like a rock. But for a sec or 2 he opened his mouth a little as if he was trying to breathe. But he couldn't :/ . I'm so sad and i'm still trying to forget him but i can't because i know it was me who killed him. :rip:

Now my questions: (pls answer these questions in order)
1. After his death i searched all over the net and found out few reasons of rabbit's sudden death.
One of them that matched the symptoms was "fly strike"
pls read about it's symptoms here:
http://ilovemice.hubpages.com/hub/What-Are-The-Causes-Of-Sudden-Death-In-Rabbits

Another possible disease is "wet tail" But i think it is not a reason for "sudden death".
But it has same symptoms..poopy butt, foul smell....
+One day(around 1 week ago of his death) i noticed that he had his ears folded, which is one of the symptoms of wet tail.
His tail was not wet. It was same as his legs, ears and nose..hard because of dead cells.

He tried to breathe in his last 1 minute which bothers me. Is it indicating that it was a respiratory disease? was it "snuffles". I couldn't find much on snuffles. So i'm not sure about it.

These are the all 3 possibilities so pls tell me according to you, which of them was the main reason for his sudden death?


2. Should I keep another rabbit? I know u guys must be thinking "Hell no. You will kill another lil fellow" But i won't this time. I really loved him so much and Im so sorry that i didn't research about him before keeping him. My friend just suddenly came to my house and gave me that cutie. But now i've learnt all basic knowledge required. I will get one next to next year after searching more. + I miss him too much. I need someone to fill his place in my home.

3.I don't want the next one to die so early. So pls tell me what special arrangements do I need to do in my house? like a cage? toys? etc...

What are the food items to give and not to give? I saw many lists but still i want to confirm.

What about litterbox? I am new to this pet world so pls tell me what is it? how to prepare/buy it? How to litter train my bunny?


Indian climate varies from extreme hot to extreme cold. So what to do during winters?



That's all. I would appreciate quick replies.

Regards,
Saurabh

 

[**SRonchi1]

He most probably died of bloat- hence being hard? The medicine your dr gave him may have been the reason? What were you feeding him? The smell why highly likely cecal debrosis. When any animal dies it takes one last breath so it wouldnt have been a respritory disease! Rabbits are such a sensitive pets to have many think they are just easy-chuck in a cage feed carrots & thats it but to be honest they are harder to keep then dogs or cats if you want them to live their full 8-10years. Read up heeeeaps about rabbits and then read some more before you decidec to get another. Rabbits also prefer the cold so its the heat you have to watch out for. Rabbits main diet is hay + some vegies & various types of weeds & a good quality pellet. Do your research & soon you will be a rabbit pro. This forum is great for any questions you need answered. Good luck & get researching Plus you dont wash a rabbit only if it is very necessary & even then its best just to clean the area thats dirty!

 

[Saurabh]

Bloat? Na i don't think so. I think it was a Fly strike. Thank you for your reply though. The medicine the dr gave was alright because it was working all good and all of the dead cells shed off his body. He was damn active n speedy in summers but the problem started from winter season.
I used to give him :
Carrots
fresh grass
sometimes cucumber and apple
coriandar(dhaniya)
and Spinach(palak)

Where can i get pellets?There is no pet shop or vet nearby.

 

[pani]

Hi there, Saurabh, welcome to RO.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your first bunny's passing. It's unfortunate that many vets, pet stores, and even some rabbit breeders don't provide all the necessary information for caring for a bunny. Although they can be wonderful and long-lasting companions, sometimes they do require a little special care and extra notice, since they'll try so hard to hide any problems they're experiencing. Binky free, little bun. ray:

In terms of the cause of death for your bunny, it's hard for anyone here to say for certain. A vet can perform a procedure (I've forgotten what it's called, but similar to a human autopsy) to determine cause of death, however as some time has passed that's probably not an option anymore.

If you feel like you're ready to look after another rabbit, I'd say go for it, just make sure you educate yourself about bunny care first! I met Felix at 6 weeks old, and in the 2 weeks I had to wait before I could take him home, I researched everything I could think of to make sure I could care for him to the best of my abilities. Judging from your post, it sounds like quality rabbit veterinary care may be a bit difficult to find nearby, so I'd educate yourself even further in case you do have to deal with any medical emergencies.

In terms of your bunny's living space, would he be living indoors or outdoors? Felix lives in a small hutch indoors, and has run of about half the living room (sectioned off with an exercise pen) whenever I'm home and able to supervise him. Eventually I'll be moving his hutch into that living area, so he has the freedom to come and go as he wishes. If you intend on having a bunny live indoors with you, the number one thing to keep in mind is bunny proofing! This means making sure the bunny's area is safe, so he can't hurt himself or destroy anything of yours. Moving cables or covering them with a plastic covering, blocking any areas the bunny shouldn't have access to, etc. These articles explain a lot about living with an indoor bun:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/entries/Things-You-should-do-to-Live-with-a-House-Rabbit.html
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/entries/Keeping-A-House-Bunny.html
http://www.myhouserabbit.com/tip_housing.php
http://www.rabbit.org/care/living-with-a-house-rabbit.html

A rabbit's diet is made up of about 80% hay (any horse quality hay should be suitable for a rabbit), and the remaining 20% with pellets and fresh vegetables. They can also have treats, such as specially designed rabbit treats (ensure all ingredients are safe, and only feed a small amount per day), or small pieces of fresh fruit. Young rabbits (1 year or under) can also have access to alfalfa or lucerne hay, which is sweeter, and assists them during this stage of growing. It's a good idea to offer both types of hay to young rabbits, so when the alfalfa hay is removed, they should be fine to easily transition. Whenever you introduce a new food to your bunny, you'll want to do it slowly. They do have quite sensitive digestive systems, so it's important to make sure a type of food agrees with their stomach before feeding it regularly. Rabbits can't vomit, so anything they ingest has to be passed completely through their system. Digestive problems can be quite serious (fatal in many cases) for bunnies, so it's important to make sure your bunny is eating regularly, drinking regularly, and is pooping regularly (including amount, colour, size, etc). More information about rabbit digestion/diet can be found below:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/entries/maintain-rabbit-digestion.html
http://www.mybunny.org/info/rabbit_nutrition.htm
http://rabbit.org/faq-diet/
http://rabbit.org/suggested-vegetables-and-fruits-for-a-rabbit-diet/ (the food list here is quite informative)

Bunnies can be very easily trained to use a litter box! All I did for Felix was move his poops into the box whenever he did them outside, and if he had any potty accidents around the house, soak up some in a paper towel and place it in the tray, so he knows where to go next time. I also cleaned the area with vinegar, to remove his scent. Eventually he understood the correct place to go. You'll also want to put hay within reach of the tray, as bunnies like to eat while they potty. I use a medium-sized cat litter tray, which Felix can fit into easily, and fill about 3/4 with litter (ensure you don't use clumping litters - paper-based is best, and you'll also want to avoid using cedar or pine shavings). The other 1/4 gets hay, so he can chew and potty at the same time. You can place more than one litter box in the house, especially if your bunny has a large area to roam in. More litter training information can be found below:

http://rabbit.org/faq-litter-training-2/
http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/litter.shtml

I haven't housed a bunny in winter yet, but this article should give good information about bunnies in the cold:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/entries/Wintering-With-Rabbits.html

I live in Australia and it's currently summer here. Outdoor temperatures are reaching around 40C at highest. Felix lives indoors and it's still quite warm. To cool him down, I always make sure he has a frozen water bottle available, so he can lean against it to cool down. He seems to be doing just fine in the heat with a frozen bottle.

Keep in mind too that bunnies don't need to be bathed. They'll clean themselves like cats, and sometimes being completely drenched in water can result in shock causing death, or hypothermia if not completely dried to the skin. I'd only recommend bathing your bunny if they're unable to clean parts of themselves (like urine-stained feet, or poopy butt), and even then I'd recommend using unscented safe cleaning wipes before giving a butt bath.

Where can i get pellets?There is no pet shop or vet nearby.

I actually buy Oxbow brand pellets online, since I had trouble finding them nearby.

 

[Saurabh]

very helpful and well-explained post. I've already read those articles and searched those websites. I will keep these things in mind. Litter training isn't issue for me.
I'm worried about his diet. You know, "PETS in india" means dogs. ALl the vets and shops are for dogs. About online stores- I will try to search for an indian online store for buying hay. :bunnysuit:

 

[pani]

Understandable - vets here mostly cater to cats and dogs, with rabbits being considered 'exotic' pets. I hope you're able to find a nearby veterinarian who specialises in treating rabbits.

I had a quick search just now and found a website that stocks rabbit pellets and will ship to India - shipping might be a bit higher than ideal, but perhaps you could stock up on 2-3 bags at once so you wouldn't have to order as often. Here's their Oxbow section, which is the brand that Felix gets.

Otherwise, I bought mine off eBay!

 

[Saurabh]

Thanks for the link. What should i give to young ones? alfalfa pellets or timothy hay?

 

[pani]

Young rabbit food (alfalfa) would be ideal up to 1 year, and transition to adult food (timothy) after that. Unfortunately they won't ship the alfalfa pellets to my location so Felix gets the timothy pellets, and I give him more alfalfa hay to make up for it.

 

[JBun]

I'm so sorry about your rabbit. From your description, it sounds to me like your rabbit contracted fur mites or burrowing mites, that caused the flakey dead skin condition. Though it could also have been a fungal infection.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Skin_diseases_main.htm
Do you know exactly what medications the vet gave you for your rabbit? If you think it was flystrike, did you find maggots on your rabbit? Did your rabbit have diarrhea? Wet tail is just a description of a rabbit having diarrhea due to an overgrowth of harmful bacteria like e. coli or clostridium sp. This can happen from stress, medications, contracting it from it's environment, poor diet, etc. The correct name for wet tail is bacterial enteritis.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Generalities/Enteritis_en.htm

It might be possible that one of the medications that you were given, caused your rabbits death. Rabbits are very different than cats and dogs, and unfortunately vets that aren't specifically trained in proper rabbit medicine, sometimes give medications to rabbits that are very harmful. Unless there is good veterinary training for rabbits in your country, you will want to be careful about what treatment and medicine a vet gives to your rabbit. I would suggest that you research and make sure that any medical treatment is safe for your rabbit before it is given. You can check this link. It has very accurate medical information about rabbits, as well as what medications are safe for rabbits.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/index_en.htm

I think another rabbit is a good idea. You obviously love them and want to provide them with the proper care and a good home. We all make mistakes. The important thing is to learn from them and do better.

Proper diet is going to be a little hard since you are in a different country and we aren't quite sure what you have available to you. Actually what you were feeding sounds perfectly fine for a rabbit as long as you aren't feeding too many sugary foods. The fresh grass and veggies is very healthy for a rabbit. Hay is just dried grass, so if you are feeding fresh grass, then that is just fine. If you want to feed dried grass(hay) then that is ok to feed too. Just make sure it has no mold or harmful weeds in it. One thing to be aware of is that when you give a rabbit a new food, you should start with small amounts each day, and gradually increase. When you get your new rabbit, make sure to get some of the food he is used to, from the person you get him from, so you aren't suddenly changing the food he is used to. Rabbits digestive systems can be very sensitive. You want to gradually introduce new foods to them, so they can get used to it slowly, and also so you can see if a new food causes mushy poop. Mushy poop indicates there is a digestive problem.

If you want feed rabbit pellets, you can. It's really up to you. A grass and veggie diet is fine too. If you do feed pellets, make sure to get a good quality pellet and check all the ingredients to make sure they are ok for your rabbit. Then you need to gradually introduce pellets, starting with a small amount and gradually increasing each day. This usually takes about 2-3 weeks to increase to the recommended amount. But pellets aren't necessary if you are feeding a well balanced diet of grass and veggies. Just make sure you are feeding enough for your rabbit to stay at a healthy weight.

If you ever have questions about whether something is ok for your new rabbit, or if you have medical questions, please feel free to post here on Rabbitsonline. We all care about rabbits and will try to help you as best we can.

 

[Saurabh]

Thanks Jbun. When we took him to vet, the vet said " It is due to water..u don't have to bathe him thew clean themselves." and when i asked about diet he said "feed him whatever you give him usually". The 3 medecines : 1. Vitamin drops for pets (for dogs,cats, parrots rodents) 2. A cream(I don't know the name but he asked me to apply it where he has bald skin/fur loss) 3. A liquid solution named Tolnafate Topical Solution - TinaDerm company (It was to apply on ears,nose legs, and eyes where dead cells were present. It was anti-itching/irritation solution..w/e you call it)

I don't think medecines were a reason because we were applying medicine since 22 mov and he showed foul smell etc from nearly 20 dec.
Let me tell you the other symptoms i saw:
Poopy Butt (i didn't clean him because i though it's winter + water may cause allergy again.) - Symptom of Fly strike as well as wet tail.
Foul smell
Wet/sticky poop
No activity/very less exercise. I took him to my garden too but he just sat in 1 end and ate grass.

 

[Saurabh]

Sorry for double-post but i can't see any modify/edit button near my post. I have one question. Are spinach and coriander ok for rabbits? can I give them daily?
I will just ask for hay from the guy i'll take bunny. Actually, it's not a single person. I've found a nice farm/shop where they keep rabbits of all age and colors so i guess i'll get hay from there.

 

[JBun]

A rabbit having a poopy butt isn't because of flystrike, but actually the other way around. A rabbit that has runny poop and messy wet fur, is susceptible to getting flystrike and maggots in the skin from flies laying eggs. A rabbit with runny poop in the fur is one of the few times that a rabbit should be bathed(a butt bath, only the messy area) and dried thoroughly, to prevent flystrike from occurring.
http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/pdfs/Flystrikedontgetcaughtout.pdf

A rabbit with runny foul smelling poop usually means it has either a protozoal infection called coccidiosis, or it has bacterial enteritis caused by harmful bacteria. The best thing you can do to prevent these things is to have a healthy rabbit with a clean living area, but even then it can still sometimes happen. If you ever have a rabbit with runny poop(diarrhea), get it to the vet right away! Both coccidiosis and bacterial enteritis are life threatening and need immediate treatment with the proper medication.

With regards to the veggies, coriander is great to feed rabbits. Spinach is ok too, but should be fed in small amounts because the high calcium and oxalates cause urinary problems for some rabbits. Both are ok to be fed every day, just lesser amounts with the spinach.

 

[squidpop]

Having a poopy butt (diarrhea) for a few days is enough to kill a rabbit or any small pet because they get dehydrated very quickly and getting fly strike on top of that would definitely do it. One of the first the best things to keep a rabbit from getting diarrhea making sure they have hay at all times, and if your rabbit gets a poopy butt the first thing all experts say is cut down on greens and pellets for a day and feed mostly hay. A rabbit that doesn't have a poopy but will not attract any flies so won't get fly strike.

 

[LumLumPop]

I'm so sorry for your rabbit

I'm not an expert on rabbits(heck I'm still in highschool!) However,my adviser once stated that if a rabbit ever has lumpy or runny poo that I should take away the veggies and fruit(I don't give them often anyway) and increase their hay and pellets. It sucks that you're having trouble getting the supplies(living in an agriculture centered town you can get hay just about anywhere!XD) Also,whenever it gets really hot outside,Ive taken to freezing a small water bottle and leaving it in their cage during the day and freezing it during the night. My Clark isn't the most "groomed' rabbit(he just doesn't seem to understand the concept of personal hygiene only grooming himself from time to time!) So around every other month at most I take a damp towel and rub him off before rubbing him with a dry towel. I'm not sure if that helps :/

I definitely think you should get a new rabbit! Rabbits are great pets to own!

 

[Saurabh]

Damn. :/ I feel so bad that i couldn't save him. I will keep these things in mind now. Thanks for you help guys.

 

[anaerobe]

I'm really sorry about your bunny - we recently lost our baby, too.
In my opinion, his skin condition was caused by the bathing, as the vet said. But simply stopping the bathing will let him recover his hairs and natural oils. Rabbits clean themselves daily and giving them baths is stressful - source: rabbit.org or a google on bathing rabbits. The general instruction is to avoid bathing unless it is necessary - eg. if he happened to step into a pile of oil, or gets covered in sugar somehow (ingesting too much sugar disrupts digestion).
I am concerned about the cremes that was prescribed to put on his skin. Because rabbits clean themselves (7x more often than cats), and similarly to cats, attention must be paid as to what gets on his fur. Because whatever gets on his fur will be ingested when he cleans himself.
I'm not sure the source of "foul smell" because it is a broad description. However, it is possible that ingesting the cremes disrupted his digestion and in the long-term, caused him to have mushy poop.
Again, it's a difficult time, I understand. We are going through it, too, and we just have to remind ourselves that we had tried our best for them.