I feel like a bad bunny owner

[Amy27]

Just to give you some background for people who didn't read my past threads I had a bunny Chase that had a bladder stone removed about a month ago. I took Little Bunny in today to have x-rays just to be sure and she has sludge.

It has to be something I am giving them or in their environment, even the vet agreed. I feel so awful. I can't even figure out where it is they are getting all this calcium from.

They only eat vegetables and timothy hay. I took some suggestion from one of my previous threads and am researching what greens I can give them with the least amount of calcium. I am going to also give them Orchard and Bermuda hay in addition to Timothy hay as they are lower in calcium. I also got a water filter so they won't get it from their water. I am soaking their greens for 30 minutes so they get more water consumtion. I don't know what else to do. Could they get calcium from card board? I asked the vet but she didn't know. I don't know what else it could be from. But I have to figure it out. It isn't fair to them that I am causing them pain by giving them something with to much calcium.

I have gotten a lot of suggestions previously so I understand if people don't have any more. I am just frustrated with the situation and myself. Off to do more research.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Do you need to buy new waterbottles? You may have mineral buildup in them?
Why don't you get a list of EVERYTHING biggrin2 you feed them.. treats, food, all of it... together, and get the analysis off the bags...
- check veggies online.
Tabulate the quantity of trace calcium... It may be higher than you think...
Are there any other reasons, besides calcium, for bladder sludge to develop in a rabbit?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Calcium-crystals-bladder-sludge.htm
-Dana Kremples.... she is a reliable info source

 

[SOOOSKA]

Hi what veggies do you feed your Bunnies? Some are very high in calcium.

Susan

 

[Leaf]

SOOOSKA wrote:

Hi what veggies do you feed your Bunnies? Some are very high in calcium.

That was my first thought as well.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

http://en.allexperts.com/sitesearch.htm?terms=rabbit%2Bcalcium&cnl=Rabbits-703&Action.x=0&Action.y=0

Range of responses for slightly diff situations... many from our randy and dana kremples

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2008/8/bunny-info.htm
Overview of sludge... maybe kidney parasites?

 

[Amy27]

They mainly get parsley, cilantro, green leaf and red leaf. Sometimes escrole (sp?) and dandilion leafs. I am looking online and it seems like they all have high calcium. But the things that are lower in calcium I have never even heard of before. I am going to make a list and take to the store and slowly introduce the vegetables that are lower in calcium. I know that parsley is really high so that will need to be cut out. Don't most people feed their rabbits these vegetables? I wonder if I am feeding them way to many vegetables. I do try to feed them more then I would if they got pellets because that is all they get to eat beside hay. Maybe I am feeding them way to much.

I did get one new water bottle but that was because I needed it. I never thought about that. The other one I have is about 5 years old so I will go and by a new one. Thanks for that idea I didn't think about that. My vet did say genetics could cause the stone but now that my other rabbit has sludge she doesn't think that is it. It could also be low water consumption but they seem to drink enough. The vet also agreed it would be unusual that both rabbits had low water consumption so that it is probably something they are consuming.

ETA I am also going to try an add something to their water to encourage them to drink. I tried pedialyte before and that didn't work. I am going to try apple juice or cranberry juice. Neither of them like fruit though so I am not sure if they will like it. It is worth a try. I wish I could get cilantro juice, they would love that.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/calcium-build.htm

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Why not grab some cilantro, whirl it in the blender and keep adding water to it until it is paste-like?
Get old pantyhose/cheesecloth, and strain the cilantro goo, squishing out the water.

Presto! Cilantro juice.
YOu could probably repeat the process a number of times. Just throw the goo back in the blender, add more water, etc...

 

[seniorcats]

If you have been using tap water, especially here in Ohio, I would expect that's where the calcium is coming from. In the past we had trouble with our cats getting crustals and having urinary problems. Our vet attendedsome continuing education classes which discussed fluride and other minerals in the water having an adverse effect on the kidneys of cats and rabbits. We bought a water filter and have had no problems since.

 

[Maureen Las]

I just looked at Dana Krempels article ; I too, have read that some buns are prone to this ...

I think that you could add unsweetened cranberry juice to their water....
I would not blame yourself at all.I feed the same greens as you and none of mine have ever had sludge. i I even fed alflafa pellets in small amounts for awhile.

this is going to be one of those hard to solve issues because if a low calcium diet could draws calcium from the bones then that is not good either.

Just try to read everything that you can get your hands on re. this. ; it's a complicated subject with varying opinions

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabcare.html#calcium

 

[Maureen Las]

seniorcats wrote:

If you have been using tap water, especially here in Ohio, I would expect that's where the calcium is coming from. In the past we had trouble with our cats getting crustals and having urinary problems. Our vet attendedsome continuing education classes which discussed fluride and other minerals in the water having an adverse effect on the kidneys of cats and rabbits. We bought a water filter and have had no problems since.

Didn't know about Ohio water....maybe a water filter would solve it

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Amy27 wrote:

. I also got a water filter so they won't get it from their water. I am soaking their greens for 30 minutes so they get more water consumtion. I don't know what else to do. ....I don't know what else it could be from. But I have to figure it out. It isn't fair to them that I am causing them pain by giving them something with to much calcium.

 

[Amy27]

Thanks for the replys everyone.

I didn't know that Ohio generally had a lot of calcium in the water. That water filter might help more than I think. Thanks

I am making a list and going to the store today. I will pick up a blender and cheesecloth. I am hoping I can make it thin enough to put in one of their water bottles. I will be picking up unsweetened cranberry juice also. Thanks for the idea.

The websites are so confusing one says one thing another says something completly different. I did read that removing calcium will take calcium from their bones. I think my best course of action will be pushing a lot of fluids. They both go back in 3 months for new x-rays. I have to get Little Bunny's sludge down by then.

While I am going out spending money to make my bunnys healthier I wanted to get new litter. I have read while being on this site that wood/pine litter is bad. Maybe that even has something to do with it. Is yesterdays news type litter good and safe to use?

Thanks everyone.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Definently get away from any wood except aspen. I think yesterday's news is very good... that is what I use.

OR, you could buy a juicer (but I think a blender is more practical, especially if you don't have one )

 

[Maureen Las]

aspen and yesterdays news are fine
pine is OK if it is kiln baked and pelleted..shavings are awfully unhealthy

 

[seniorcats]

You're definitely not a bad bunny mom! If the water filter is new, I would expect that may help matters. We have well water and sense it filters through certain type of rock, the calcium content is high. When we lived in Lakewood and had city water, we had the worst problems due to the fluride content of the water.

This is a link to Lyle's story. He is one of the sanctuary bus at Buckeye HRS and has extreme urinary problems.Getting more fluids into them sounds like an excellent idea. http://ohare.org/need/sanctuary/sanctuary-rabbits.htm#lyle

 

[Amy27]

Thanks again everyone. I am back from the store got all new water bowls and bottle. Made my cilantro juice, so far I don't think they noticed it has a different taste. They don't like to try things on demand lol unless of course it is a treat. I also bought unsweetened cranberry juice that I will but in one of their bowls. Then they will have a regular bowl of water and a regular bottle of water. Hopefully they will start drinking more. I also picked up some low calcium greens to start introducing and yesterday news litter. Please cross your fingers that this helps and in three months the sludge is going away.

Thanks again everyone. I feel better like I have a direction to go in instead of sitting here feeling like I was doing everything wrong.

 

[Amy27]

That story about Lyle is so sad. I wish I could take in animals like that that have health problems and don't have a high chance of being adopted. Maybe one day when I make more money I will. The last month I have already spent $1500 or more on my two rabbits with their issues. All animals deserved to be loved and have a home.

 

[TinysMom]

I have some buns that are more prone to this than others (didn't know much about it till Tiny got it and died).

What I would do - even though its going to cost more money- is to just buy bottled water by the gallon. I use this for Zeus and some other rabbits that I feel are more prone to have bladder sludge (Zeus mainly cause I'm terrified I'll lose him young like Tiny - not that I've really seen much for symptoms).

I think a gallon of water (not the distilled - just the drinking water) is like .79 or so at Walmart - so let's say it cost you $2.00 per week for the water....

For the peace of mind I have - its worth it to me...