His Genetics?

[BSAR]

I have been meaning to post this for a while but have just put it off.

Ok so all or most of you know how we bred Lily, our MR doe, to our MR buck, Bruce. Well Lily is around 2 1/2years old and she had her litter 10 weeks ago (I can't believe it has been that long:shock. Lily had four babies, three were DOA's but little Kalea-Rae was perfect. So a little over a month ago at a show, this lady had this broken chestnut MR doe who had chinchilla coloring in her tail. She is around 9 months old. Bruce bred with the chestnut doe and just a couple of weeks ago he became a daddy again. Now he can't see this kits because they are in Canada. That MR doe alos had four kits and inronically three died shortly after birth and only one survived.

I think this is quite odd that a doe of 2 yrs and a doe of 9 mos. would both have a litter of four and only have one survivor each. So my sister and I think it is Bruce who is causing this, because those babies should have been all fine. Bruce's old owners had someone come out and they said he looked like he would be a good breeder! Well first off I wonder how you can tell if they will be a good breeder just by looking at them. So can anyone answer my question? What do you guys all think?

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Important thing to consider: Three of Lily's babies were pencils; Two of Daisy's (bruce's other girl) were pencils, one was a peanut (?) and the one that is surviving is the runt.

What my sister means is, could this be in his genes? Something that is genetically happening, no matter the age/breeding experiences of the doe? Either way, he's no longer up for stud!!

Emily

 

[TinysMom]

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

Important thing to consider: Three of Lily's babies were pencils; Two of Daisy's (bruce's other girl) were pencils, one was a peanut (?) and the one that is surviving is the runt.

What my sister means is, could this be in his genes? Something that is genetically happening, no matter the age/breeding experiences of the doe? Either way, he's no longer up for stud!!

Emily

I know that for lionheads - pencil kits usually happen for one of two reasons:

• first time mama whose birth canal hasn't been stretched before from having kits and its kinda small (or the kits are stuck behind a larger kit)
• older doe who can not give birth as easily and the kits are stuck

I've had pencil kits from several bucks and yet those same bucks will have normal kits with a doe that hasn't had any issues with delivery.

So my thoughts are that the does had issues with the kits being in the birth canal too long (behind a larger kit) - or it was their first litter and the birth canal wasn't stretching right (and I'm probably not saying that right).

I don't think it is the buck - I think it is the does. He should be bred to a younger doe (the 9 months age is really good - maybe a year old or so) who has already had a litter and I bet you'll see kits that aren't pencil kits.

But usually - the pencil kits come from birth issues.....

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Thanks Tinysmom. So you think if he's bred to a young doe who's previously had litters then there is a less likely chance of having pencils?

I hope that's the case. I guess we'll just question the doe's owners before we breed him to a doe next time, so then we can see if it still happens.

Yes, Daisy (the doe who had the same as Lily) is just 9 months old and this is her first litter; What you said makes sense about their birth canal not being very stretched out, etc. I wonder if her next litter would be more successfull?

Emily

 

[TinysMom]

Since she has had a litter (and she's still fairly young - which can mean a shorter delivery time) - the odds are good that her next litter would not have as many (or any) pencil kits.

I have had does have four in a litter and all four are pencil kits - but in their next litter they don't have any pencil kits.

I had one doe, Pow Wow - that took three attempts before she had a successful litter - and then only one survived (it was born a day after her other kits that were born dead). In her fourth litter - she had four healthy babies. She retired from breeding after her fourth litter...but she was sure proud to have finally had babies. (With her first litter - I allowed her to foster four babies from another doe who had nine - and when I went in the next morning - there was a fifth baby in her nest - if I remember right...or she had three babies and there was a fourth in her nest box...something like that).