hello from raven and dexter

[twitch-6]

hello, i'm raven and my new bunny that i sort of inherited is dexter. i know he's a he, a dwarf, about six years old and he looks kinda like a siamese cat with the markings he has but that's about it. i've been reading about rabbits, trying to lean more about them to be the best rabbit mom i can be but some of the stuff is very confusing. for instance, there doesn't seem to be much of a consenus about average life span. i've read that bunnies can live only 6-7 years with some exceptions and others says as old as 10-13 years. i don't know what to believe on that count.

i'm taking dexter to the vet for a check up next week and to discuss neutering as well as anything else she can tell me about rabbits.

i also want to get him a new cage. i was looking into getting one with a rasied floor and covering part of the floor with carpet remainents. i'd like to get something with a slide out tray for easy cleaning and a door in the front so dexter can decide when he wants in and out. but finding a cage with those requirements that is of decent size and price seems to be impossible. i'm in canada and though the dollar is now worth a bit more the american dollar, online we're still behind and the places that will ship to canada, the price of shipping is almost double the cost of the cage. so if anyone knows of a online candian store with decent cages, i would greatly appreicate a heads up.

i also have a question that has been bugging me. when i let dexter out of the cage he'll use the litter box regliously, only pooping outside of it if he's been startled by my kitten (he's learning to be better about the bunny, but he's only 6 months old and wants to play) but when he's inside the cage he seems to believe that the litter box is JUST for sleeping and the REST of the cage is for pooping and peeing. which is really ticking me off cause i can clean the bloody thing 3-4 times a day and its still a mess. but the question is, if the pooping and peeing outside the litter box in the cage is a marking thing, why doesn't he do during free roam as well?


as for dexter's personality, we're still getting to knwo each other. i've had him for a bit but i've never had a bunny before and so am trying to learn to their language. its been a bit of a bumpy road with LOTS of miscommunication but it would seem that dx is very forgiving of my short comings. he'll only come up on the couch when its either empty or i'm in it (with or without the rats). he seems to like me best of the humans in the apartment, which makes me feel really specail and so i want to try all the harder to learn what he's trying to tell me. he seems to get along great with my pet rats (all 11 of them). he'll lay down on the couch with them running around him or curled next to him. he does get a bit unnerved when they crawl over his back but i think he's getting used to it now, as he doesn't react nearly as much as he used to. sometimes i'm not sure if he's afraid of the kitten or if he's playing back. sometimes dexter will run from minion and other times he'll chase him back (though chasing back seems to be less often). i reprimand minion for chasing the rabbit most times that i see him doing it (sometimes he sees me coming and runs before i can get him). in any case i think dexter is pretty cool.

a few things about me, so i can be introduced as well as dexter:
i am a mod on a rat forum, ratforum.com, i'm twitch there as well. i have 11 rats, bribery, stewart, kakushi, violet, twix, tween, sweetipie, babydoll, ink, eyes and sookie, 2 cats, Minion and Sesshoumaru, 1 male beta, squee the 4th, a 4 year old son, corvis and a boyfriend named kevin. i am in my second year of university and am planning to declare my majors as psychology and philsophy with a minor in crimnal justice. i'm having a blast there but life can be a little hectic between, school, the kid, the house, the forum, the animals and the boyfriend and other family. i really admire the ones that do all that and have a job as well, quite frankly i don't know how they find enough time in the day.

oh and a couple pictures of dexter:

i think that's all i can tell you. and its probably more then enough with the long post that this has become. but any advice that could be offered so that i can become a better mom to dexter would be greatly appreicated.

 

[undergunfire]

Thank you so much for joining, Raven :biggrin2:! I am the one that sent you over here from the rat forum . We have a few members on this forum that have rats, as well!


House rabbits very well CAN live up to 15+ years. It is no lie. With proper care and tons of love....it really can happen !


Honestly, there really is no decent cage from a pet sore, you will learn that by looking around on the forum more. The BEST cage that you can have for a bunny is a NIC cage:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15348&forum_id=21


If a NIC cage isn't an option for you, then we can help you decide what the best cage for your situation would be .


As far as communication between you and Dexter, check out this section in our library, with plenty of links to click:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12051&forum_id=17





Overall...check out our Bunny 101 library! You will learn tons and you can still ask us questions :biggrin2:!

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=17




Amy :wave:



EDIT TO ADD: He looks like a Netherland Dwarf. I am unsure of his color though. He is very gorgeous!

 

[twitch-6]

thank you for the invite. the place looks really nice. i was skimming through the bunny 101 before i made this post and plan to look more thoroughly though it later, (i'm getting ready for bed for the night after this post).

unfortunately the NIC cages are not a good fit for me. with the cats around i'd be concerned that it would tople over. that and there just isn't that type of floor space. i know there's a lot of cages marketed towards rabbits but i would assume, that just like rats, the people doing the selling know very little about the animal or product. i would love to be able to have a big cage like the NIC cages seem to be able to provide but the apartment just isn't suited for that sort of thing. i was thinking about something between 37" - 48" long. from what i've been reading that is about approiate size for the size of dexter. mind you, i know there is a lot of misinformation out there too so that could be wrong as well. what i would really like to get is something with a rasied bottom. i know the grate flooring can cause problems so i was planning on covering a good portion of it with carpet remnants or grass mats to make it more comfortable for dexter. i want the rasied floor so i can keep dexter and his business separate. the cage i have now is a hagen so it just has the pan bottom and for some reason dexter feels the need to use the entire pan for his bathroom rather then the litter box. though he will use the litter box exclusively when he's outside the cage. i really don't understand that. if it was a marking thing, wouldn't he do it outside the cage as well?

a netherland dwarf eh? that sounds pretty neat. bunnies have breeds, unlike rats, so does that mean that the netherland bit is a breed or a color variation? and dwarf is the breed or the type? and if netherland dwarf is the breed, how do you tell? or is there only one type of dwarf? sorry for all the basic questions but this stuff is really fascinating.

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

An NIC cage dosen't have to take up tons of floor space. A 2*3 pannel measures about 28" by 42". and you can build up. A 2*3 takes up about the same space as a large pet store cage with its doo open, but have much more space for the bun. They are also much cheaper. $30 can get you a big one.

Also, put your location in you profile. click "MY ACCOUNT" and the top. This helps everyone know where you are from. Province is enough, but city is nice too

Dexter is cute:biggrin2:

 

[naturestee]

Welcome to the forum! Dexter is gorgeous, and I love the names of your animals, especially Squee!!!

Yup, he definately looks like a Netherland Dwarf, which is the breed. His color is one of the pointed colors but I'm not sure which one. Here's a great website with examples, made by one of our other members Pamnock:
http://www.geocities.com/pamnock/shaded.html

I definitely have to agree with the NIC cage. It can be made to fit in many situations (like Korr and Sophie said, a 2x3 grid cage is only 28"x42", same as a large dog crate), you can make multiple levels which most buns love, and it's crazy cheap compared to most other options. It can also be taken apart and rebuilt if you move to a different place and want a cage that's shaped differently. And yes, the cage size you are thinking of would be fine for a little Nethie.

As for learning bunny language, I totally understand. I had the same problems when I got my first bun. Here is an awesome website on bunny language (there's also more in Bunny 101):
http://www.muridae.com/rabbits/rabbittalk.html

For litter box training in the cage, have you tried giving him a second litter box? Some rabbits like one for sleeping and one for potty. Or maybe he'd like somewhere else to sleep, like a cardboard box or grass mat. Another thing that really helps is putting the hay in or above the litter box so he has to sit in it to eat. Rabbits generally like to eat hay and poop at the same time.

 

[undergunfire]

twitch-6 wrote:

i would love to be able to have a big cage like the NIC cages seem to be able to provide but the apartment just isn't suited for that sort of thing.

Oh, I certainly hear you! I would LOVE to get a Ferret Nation for my two boy ratties, then add in one or two more in the future, but my fiancee and I are still living at his mom's house and it would be impossible to put a Ferret Nation in our bedroom, plus all the NIC cages we have.


mind you, i know there is a lot of misinformation out there too so that could be wrong as well.

This place is the perfect place to read up. You will get ALL the RIGHT information .


what i would really like to get is something with a rasied bottom. i know the grate flooring can cause problems so i was planning on covering a good portion of it with carpet remnants or grass mats to make it more comfortable for dexter. i want the rasied floor so i can keep dexter and his business separate.

Grass mats would be a great idea, as well as marble or ceramic tiles. I think you can get roughly 1 foot by 1 foot ceramic tiles at hardware type stores. That might be more practicle for you. Dexter could rest on it, keep cool, he won't be able to shred it, and it easily washes clean. You could also get him a grass mat as a toy as well .


the cage i have now is a hagen so it just has the pan bottom and for some reason dexter feels the need to use the entire pan for his bathroom rather then the litter box. though he will use the litter box exclusively when he's outside the cage. i really don't understand that. if it was a marking thing, wouldn't he do it outside the cage as well?

I have a question for you: How many hours a day is Dexter out of his cage? This plays a big role in how large his cage actually needs to be. If he gets plenty of out-time, then his cage doesn't need to be as large. How many pounds does Dexter weigh? You should look into getting a Martin's rabbit cage, that way you can have it powercoated to prevent rust...and you could get a slide out tray with a wire floor.

a netherland dwarf eh? that sounds pretty neat. bunnies have breeds, unlike rats, so does that mean that the netherland bit is a breed or a color variation? and dwarf is the breed or the type? and if netherland dwarf is the breed, how do you tell? or is there only one type of dwarf? sorry for all the basic questions but this stuff is really fascinating.

Most of us can tell rabbit breeds apart pretty easy, just like you can tell a dumbo rat from a standard rat , or how people can tell a Beagle apart from a Labrador. A Netherland Dwarf is a breed of rabbit. Many people on the forum have Nethies (Netherland Dwarfs).

You can learn about the Nethie breed, here:

http://islandgems.net/dwarfinfo.html



And I am pretty sure that Dexter's color is a Siamese Smoked Pearl !

 

[twitch-6]

thank you for all the information and fast replies. i will keep the NIC cages in mind but i am still going to keep looking for other alternatives. the big thing i have against the NIC cages is my fear that minion or dexter or maybe even sesshoumaru would knock the cage over and that it doesn't provide a rasied floor which i really want for dexter's cage.

to answer your questions:
naturestee: For litter box training in the cage, have you tried giving him a second litter box?
i haven't tried that but i certainly will now. maybe that will help. he does get his hay in the litter box, but so far that doesn't seem to help. i would just cover the entire tray except i want to use yesterday's news litter (which i use for the rats and i have found to be the best in odour control and safest for my animals). but that would get real expensive very fast for the length of this cage. besides, he's so good about it outside the cage it just doesn't make much sense why he sucks about it inside the cage. i will try the other litter box though. i'm planning to go out and get a hut and some toys next weekend, so maybe that will help as well.

undergunfire:How many hours a day is Dexter out of his cage?
he normally will come out from the time my son goes to bed between 7-8 until i go to bed normally around midnight. on the weekends where i'm home and my son is at his dad's dexter is out from the time i get up until i have to leave or go to bed. the thing is though, after only a little bit of time out he'll try to get back into the cage. except the cage he came with only has top access so he can't actually get back in. i'm sure he would enjoy his out time much more if he could go back to his cage whenever he wanted. as to his size i'm not entirely sure. he'll be going to the vet on the 15th, so i'll find out for sure then. right now the best i can give you is that my 5-6 pound cat is bigger then he his but he feels heavier then the cat, more solid. i don't know how much that really helps though...

sidenote to undergunfire:
the FN cages look really great of course but you can actually get even bigger cages for less money if you look into cat cages instead. you still have to cover the cage either way but with cat cages, most of them will fold up for easy storage and are MUCH cheaper. this is the one i have to get back from my mom so i can cover it and put my rats in:

it cost me about $90 with extras after shipping from the states and conversion rates 2 years ago. it'd be even cheaper now. the doors are large enough that i can fit my whole torso in without trouble. and the rat calculators say it would fit 10 rats if used wisely, which means you can probably really fit 12-13 if you know how to optimise the space (the picture does not include optimized use of space). i would be using it for my rats now except i've been hesitant about covering it with uncoated hardware cloth. i've been trying to figure out an alternative but have not found anything else. until recently the cages i have my rats in was fine anyway too so i leant it to my mother and now she doesn't want to give it back. in any case, its something to consider as an alternative to the FN cages. though the same space contrants would be a consideration. this is where being thifty can really come in handy. hagen chinchilla cages (bought new can range from $100-$130) can hold 3 rats a cage and is easy to expand. the best part is you can find them being sold used for anywhere between $40-$75 often with extras included. these cages can fit nicely on top of an average sized dresser too. the key to getting a good cage for any rat would be to look outside the marketed made-for-rats cages and to keep a close eye on the classifieds (either local paper or kijiji.com for americans, kijiji.ca for canadians).

i'll read the links as soon as i can.

 

[undergunfire]

Thank you for the cage idea, Raven .


I did have a flight cage for a bird, ferret, or chinn that I bought off Ebay that I love, but the doors were a little small for cleaning. I am actually leaning towards getting it again, but this time figuering out how to put in a full or semi-full floor...



It was this one...

*30x18 x 38"H overall 62"
* 1/2" bar spacing


Rat calculator says it can hold 6 rats, but I would probably put only 4 rats in the cage. I am going to be getting my boys neutered, so I may add a female to the cage someday.
I am still looking for more cage options, though . I'll try the kijiji site you gave me!




As for Dexter....he probably keeps trying to go back to his cage because, well....that is his home base. Notice that if you have ratties out playing during their out-time near their cage, some will go back to their cage just to check it out .
For Dexter's next cage, I would highly suggest getting a cage that he can get in and out of by himself. It will make him feel more comfortable, rather than having hands reaching in to get him every time.


After his neuter, you should see an increase in litter box use. He is still intact, so he probably feels the need to pee and poo all over his cage to show that it is his.




Question.....what does Dexter's diet consist of?:


The brand of pellets?

How much pellets does he get every day?

Type of hay?

Do you feed unlimited hay?
Does he get fresh veggies or fruits on a daily basis?






(Sorry about all the bold...for some reason it wouldn't un-bold :grumpy

 

[Michaela]

Welcome to the forum! Dexter is a cute bunny!

I really woun't worry about an NIC cage toppling over - they are very sturdy provided you use the connectors that come with them and loads of cable ties. Wire floors are a bad idea for rabbits, because they are prone to getting sore hocks (sores on the bottom of the feet).

You should try and use a solid bottom floor - keep persisting and you will be able to litter train him. One more thing, carpet can also contribute to sore hocks, it's rougher on their feet than you'd expect.

Enjoy the forum!

~~~~~~
~Michaela and bunnies (Ebony and Madsion)~

 

[Luvmyzoocrew]

Welcome and your bun is sssssoooo cute.

 

[Butterfinger]

Welcome to the forum! I see you've got some great advice from lots of people already

Yeah, that's a cute little Nethie right there He looks like a blue point to me, but it could be sable point, too.
I have a kitten, too, and I also find it hard to tell if my rabbit's playing with him or just running away (Mine is a three-year old 5 lb Holland Lop, and the kitten is a 3 lb almost four month domestic longhair) . If my kitty gets too rough on him, though, he'll just run under the bed like "Haha, you can't get me"

Good luck with the cage issue~


~Diana and Butterfinger

 

[EiuGirl316]

Dexter is soo cute!! He looks like my bunny Finnegan except with a different color. I love it.

 

[BratBunny]

Hello! I'm new here too! I used to have rats. lol. They are as wild as the bunnies.

 

[twitch-6]

thank you everyone that replied. i think dexter is really cute too. and we're getting to know each other better. i did that head toss thing to show i was happy and he did it back! it was so cool!!

undergunfire: sorry for replying back so late. the holidays was anything but relaxing. which i shold have expected, after all "best laid plans" and all that. but in anycase i can reply now.

first: that cage wqold work great for a few rats and you don't have to have solid levels to have levels. the only benifit of a solid level is that you can put huts on it but a hammock stretched tight will work just as well for the rats to move around on. personally i don't much like having many solid levels if i ahev to have them at all. they make you commit to that layout most of the time. and the best thing for a rat's cage is its versatility. you want to be able to move things around so that the cage is completely different to keep theor minds stimulated and keep them interested in their surroundings. of course, keep favorite toys or shelves but make sure you can move them around. this is why hammocks are so awsome. they're easy to make and can fit anywhere. another idea for floor space is corner litter trays. most of them will just hook on but a quick zip-tie through the hole and they're much more secure. a great little and inexpensive hidey-hole/snuggly spot is hamster balls with some scraps of fabic inside zip-tied to the side of the cage. those chinchilla flower baths (the plastic ones) are great for this too. another favorite toy of my girls is dollar store hanging baskets with some scrap fabric to dig and hide food in (make sure to double check this hiding spot when you're taking out the leftover fruits or veggies--if you don't the smell can be atrotious in a VERY short time). really, all a rat needs for a cage to be good is the proper space and a parent with a bit of ingenuity (or a comp with the internet to steal ideas from). solid levels are not necessary. mind you, you can still make them with shower corner racks and zip-ties which can often be found at dollar stores.

second: you asked some questions about dexter's diet.

the brand of pellets i'm guessing isn't the best, i got it at walmart. its a 10kg bag of topcorp rabit food. i fill his bowl and when its empty (about every other day) i fill it back up again.

he gets timothy hay, about a small handful in his litter box about once a day (i want to get him a hay manger thingy but i'm not sure which is the best to get. most of the ones i've seen is untreated or galvanized metal which i would assume would rust over time).

as for fruits and veggies, he gets what we have when we have it. normally its some romaine lettuce, apples, carrots, cucumber from time to time (i want to offer him some tomato too but not until i can either get him to stop peeing all over the cage or get a cage that keeps him separte from that. tomatos are so juicey i don't want him licking up tomato juice and urine at the same time if i haven't wiped up the urine in time), a peice of a banana every now and then, brocoli and some other stuff depending on sales. normally we run out of the fresh stuff before i go get groceries again so its not a daily thing. maybe every other day or so... probably a little less often then that even.

but that brings me up to a question. i've seen different lists saying that these foods are good but i haven't come across anything that said which ones to aviod and why. i get the general feeling that things which starch isn't a good thing but i'm not sure. are there any veggies or fruits that i should never give like blue cheese for rats? and is there any food that is just harmful to one gender like oranges are for male rats?

 

[undergunfire]

twitch-6 wrote:

undergunfire:

first: that cage wqold work great for a few rats and you don't have to have solid levels to have levels. the only benifit of a solid level is that you can put huts on it but a hammock stretched tight will work just as well for the rats to move around on. personally i don't much like having many solid levels if i ahev to have them at all. they make you commit to that layout most of the time. and the best thing for a rat's cage is its versatility. you want to be able to move things around so that the cage is completely different to keep theor minds stimulated and keep them interested in their surroundings. of course, keep favorite toys or shelves but make sure you can move them around. this is why hammocks are so awsome. they're easy to make and can fit anywhere. another idea for floor space is corner litter trays. most of them will just hook on but a quick zip-tie through the hole and they're much more secure. a great little and inexpensive hidey-hole/snuggly spot is hamster balls with some scraps of fabic inside zip-tied to the side of the cage. those chinchilla flower baths (the plastic ones) are great for this too. another favorite toy of my girls is dollar store hanging baskets with some scrap fabric to dig and hide food in (make sure to double check this hiding spot when you're taking out the leftover fruits or veggies--if you don't the smell can be atrotious in a VERY short time). really, all a rat needs for a cage to be good is the proper space and a parent with a bit of ingenuity (or a comp with the internet to steal ideas from). solid levels are not necessary. mind you, you can still make them with shower corner racks and zip-ties which can often be found at dollar stores.

I hear ya! I used to have that flight cage for my past 3 female rats. It was a great cage, just a little hard to clean and decorate...the doors are a little small. I did use wire shelving from the dollar store and walmart for some extra levels in the cage.

I am insanely crafty when it comes to decorating rat cages. I like large cages jam packed with hanging stuff and hammocks, but still allowing floor space.

The more cages that I look at, the more I think I am going to go ahead and order the flight cage on the 19th. In the future, I can always upgrade to an FN, which I want, but they are too huge for my space right now and small ratties.

second: you asked some questions about dexter's diet.

the brand of pellets i'm guessing isn't the best, i got it at walmart. its a 10kg bag of topcorp rabit food. i fill his bowl and when its empty (about every other day) i fill it back up again.

Yup, probably horrible. It is the "Small World" food? You want a pellet with no colored bits in it.

You should go to the "Nutrition" section of the forum and start a new thread about Dexter's diet and what foods/pellets people can reccommend to you. They have more of a chance helping you in a new thread, than reading through this thread in the "Introductions" section .

he gets timothy hay, about a small handful in his litter box about once a day (i want to get him a hay manger thingy but i'm not sure which is the best to get. most of the ones i've seen is untreated or galvanized metal which i would assume would rust over time).

Hay is good! You can never give too much of it. I would suggest just leaving the hay on his litter box floor. I find my guys eat more hay that way and they like to dig at it. All rabbits are different though!

as for fruits and veggies, he gets what we have when we have it. normally its some romaine lettuce, apples, carrots, cucumber from time to time (i want to offer him some tomato too but not until i can either get him to stop peeing all over the cage or get a cage that keeps him separte from that. tomatos are so juicey i don't want him licking up tomato juice and urine at the same time if i haven't wiped up the urine in time), a peice of a banana every now and then, brocoli and some other stuff depending on sales. normally we run out of the fresh stuff before i go get groceries again so its not a daily thing. maybe every other day or so... probably a little less often then that even.

but that brings me up to a question. i've seen different lists saying that these foods are good but i haven't come across anything that said which ones to aviod and why. i get the general feeling that things which starch isn't a good thing but i'm not sure. are there any veggies or fruits that i should never give like blue cheese for rats? and is there any food that is just harmful to one gender like oranges are for male rats?

Here is a list that has "safe foods", "safe in moderation", and "un-safe foods":
http://earthhome.tripod.com/saferab.html



Oh, and gender doesn't play a role with foods for rabbits .

 

[twitch-6]

"the brand of pellets i'm guessing isn't the best, i got it at walmart. its a 10kg bag of topcorp rabit food. i fill his bowl and when its empty (about every other day) i fill it back up again.

Yup, probably horrible. It is the "Small World" food? You want a pellet with no colored bits in it."

no, not small world, there's no colors in it. the brand is topcorp. i checked the bag before i posted. but i will make another thread about his nuitrition in the proper section as well.

thanks for the link. i'll give that a look through as soon as i can.