Hard Decision

[jbrule]

I have posted on and off about my mini lop and his behavior problems. He is just not a very nice rabbit, certainly not a suitable family pet. He likes me and that's about it, he bites my cats all of the time and draws blood, bites my 10 yo DD who is an animal lover and has tried to make friends with him. We had house sitters and he would charge and grunt at them. they were terrified! I think it has come to the point that we need to get rid of him. My problem is we have a 4 month old female Flemish cross now too (one of my attempts to get him to be a nicer rabbit was to find him a friend), she is a sweetheart and I don't want to get rid of her. Is it completely cruel to separate them? I don't even know how I will be able to find a miserable rabbit a home. I don't want him to be shuffled around or abused. I am not an irresponsible pet owner and really think of my animals as part of the family but he needs a home with no other species of pets and a very patient owner.

 

[Happi Bun]

Is he neutered?

 

[jbrule]

Yes, he's been neutered for about 4 months.

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

Is he aggressive over anything in particular? Like is he more aggressive in his cage or if you suddenly approach him? There could be some medical issue. If he is blind, he might not know you are coming near him, if he is deaf he might not hear you coming.

One reason the he does bite is because it works. He lunges and bites and the thing he doesn't like goes away. Wearing heavy work gloves can help. He will still lunge and bite, but the hand won't leave so he learns that it doesn't work.
He might have been territorial to start with, and is now also protecting the female. He does need to learn that he doesn't need to protect her or his territory from you or other people.

Knowing how to help is easier if we know what you have tried.

I don't think that finding him a new home will help him, it will mostly help you. He would need a home where the people are able and willing to work with him. That is going to be hard to find. I would suggest you work with him and see if there is any improvement (no matter how small) before you make any decisions.

 

[elrohwen]

I don't think you're going to be able to just rehome him if he's really that aggressive. Let us know what you've tried and we can give you advice on what might work. By sending him to a new home, you might just start a cycle of him shuffling from home to home.

 

[Happi Bun]

Being realistic, it will be hard to find someone willing to take in a biter. Animal Shelters will just euthanize. I'd say your best bet is to find a Rabbit Rescue that would be willing to take him in. Even that will be difficult, most resources that Rescues have are stretched to the limit with our economy. The rescue I volunteer with has two aggressive rabbit's that have been altered as well. In some cases it just doesn't help, especially if the rabbit has learned biting gets them what they want or if it's out of fear. One of the biters has bonded strongly with one person, like your bun, and has made it quite apparent that she wants no part in any other kind of relationship. It does take time and dedication, which is hard especially when children are involved. So I completely understand the position you have been put in.

Kate brings up a great suggestion. Another idea if he bites/lunges when going to pet him or do something in his area is to make a "fake hand". You can easily make one using a 18 inch wooden dowel with a soft baby brush attached to the end. You could even use a real fake hand on the end or a glove stuffed with a soft material. Gently stroke and touch him all over while speaking softly. When he relaxes to the contact you can use positive reinforcement by giving him one of his favorite treats to reward the wanted behavior. As he becomes more relaxed over a period of time using this method you can shorten the wooden rod until eventually you are petting him. Another idea is placing things that smell like the other family members (a shirt that has been worn a few times) and something with cat's hair and sent on it in his pen.

 

[Sabine]

My heart goes out to you. It must be truly upsetting to have a pet that is returning your care and attention with aggression. I can see why you feel you want to be rid of him in a way. On the other hand it is very difficuilt to rehome a pat like that and also if he is already bonded to a girlfriend this may upset both of them.
I have a female rabbit that was illtreated in her former home and she is bonded now to one of my males but HATES every other rabbit and only loves Benny who is therefore prevented from socializing with anyone else. She isn't aggressive to people but isn't all that cuddly either. I'd be very slow to rehome her as she may be very difficuilt to love.
I hope you find a way of making him more sociable. If he loves you that's a start:thumbup

 

[jbrule]

I have tried spraying him with water when he chases the cats, he doesn't care at all. I think he is territorial, I also think that he thinks it's fun to chase the cats. He likes to be the boss. I think he is a smart rabbit and is always thinking, if you look at him you can almost see the wheels turning. When he sees a cat he usually waits for them to run before he gives chase. If I say no and get in between them he does usually stop. He will sneak up on my DD and just bite her though. He hasn't broken the skin but she's scared now. He has only bitten me once, just after he was neutered, I was holding parsley for him and he lunged and bit, broke the skin. I don't think his lunging and biting is fear related at all, I don't think he is afraid of anything. I have also cut down on how often he's allowed to run around the house. He hates to be in his enclosure and gets very grumpy if he's not allowed out. He has escaped many. many times and I have yet to figure out how!

I am not scared of him at all, he nudges me for pets and I can pick him up and cradle him like a baby (until he loses patience). I certainly don't hate him but can't say that for anyone else in the house.

I have had 3 other rabbits and they have all been Flemish or part Flemish and just lovable. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have strayed from that breed!

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Somearticles on aggression I found that might have some tips that will work for your bun:

http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/aggression.html

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-2/mean-rabbit.html

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/agressive.shtml

http://www.gopetsamerica.com/small-animals/rabbit/aggressive-rabbit.aspx

However, I don't think your rabbit is aggressive out of fear or ill-treatment (as most of these articles suggest). Rather, it sounds to me like he's got some dominance issues. He's decided the whole house (didn't you say before that he had more free roam privileges before the biting started?) is his territory and he's going to drive off any intruders--be they cats or 10 year old daughters. He's learned that lunging and biting makes everyone else in the family (human and animal alike) cow to him, so that's what he uses.

From http://mysite.verizon.net/vze27h5b/id25.html:

Rabbits are territorial and defend their turf against intruding rabbits, including funny looking ones. As Top Rabbit, you need to make clear to your rabbit what is his/her space and what is your space because this defines your leadership position in the "warren." Failure to establish yourself as Top Rabbit will result in a poorly trained rabbit with accompanying behavioral problems. Unfortunately, this only results in increased cage time for the rabbit. Respect for each other's space must be mutual. For example, clean your rabbit's living quarters when s/he is out and about.

In his case, I think you need to work on asserting yourself as the top rabbit in the houseand putting him properly in his place.

Try time outs, work gloves, a spray bottle of water, basicallywhatever it takes to show him that lunging and biting will not get him what he wants andthat he is not the top-bunny, but you are and he should begin to smarten up.

I've been told that pinning a rabbit, by holding down itsneck and shoulderswith a firm handis an effective way of demonstrating dominance. (Apparently rabbits will do this to each other in the wild.) However, you have to be careful as the rabbit could be easily injured when you do this.

Hope that helps!

Rue

 

[crystal]

That really is a hard situation that you are in. And it sounds like you are trying good things...

I am certainly no expert on rabbits at all and especially not on rabbits with challenging behaviour, but I can't help wondering, since you say he is very smart, whether he is also just really bored. you might have already gone down this path, I don't know, and it might not be the whole problem but I wonder whether chasing the cats is just something fun to do so why not... so maybe he needs more stimulation?

what do other people think?

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

jbrule wrote:

I have posted on and off about my mini lop and his behavior problems. He is just not a very nice rabbit, certainly not a suitable family pet. He likes me and that's about it, he bites my cats all of the time and draws blood, bites my 10 yo DD who is an animal lover and has tried to make friends with him. We had house sitters and he would charge and grunt at them. they were terrified! I think it has come to the point that we need to get rid of him. My problem is we have a 4 month old female Flemish cross now too (one of my attempts to get him to be a nicer rabbit was to find him a friend), she is a sweetheart and I don't want to get rid of her. Is it completely cruel to separate them? I don't even know how I will be able to find a miserable rabbit a home. I don't want him to be shuffled around or abused. I am not an irresponsible pet owner and really think of my animals as part of the family but he needs a home with no other species of pets and a very patient owner.

he is quite the character,,no fear,,you can work with him,,with a little training--he will be putty in your hands...there is alot of information on the program dog whisperer,,national geographic channel...cesar millan trains people rehabs animals(dogs)-the same technics he offers can be applied to your household---his energy needs to be rechanneled soas he is calm and submisive and not running around like a wild pitbull...i am kind of a rabbit whisperer...i have a cottontail,,i-have cut him alot of slack,,because he was very aggressive,,today going on 4 yrs he is more mellow and little cudling ,,,hope this helps,,work with him don,t give him up...sincerely james waller:wave::rose:

 

[jbrule]

I think I am top rabbit to him. He doesn't go after me, I can reach in his cage, etc, he doesn't care. Trying to get everyone else to assert themselves is another issue. My 10 yo wont do it. I wish you lived near me James, I always say that I need a rabbit whisperer!

 

[Pipp]

The odd rabbit is aggressive and naturally cranky, I've had two here -- my killer mini-rex Scooter (I loved that little guy, but he would chase you down and rip your legs up if you made him angry) and my current mini-lop, Darry who still thinks all humans have cooties.

They both mellowed with time and attention (although poor Scooter didn't get much time before he attacked my blind old cat who bit him self-defense which caused a fatal infection).

Neither rabbit was obviously appropriate for a family pet. They were here because of that, I usually foster the 'difficult' ones.

How bonded are the two rabbits? I'd think about 'trading in' Copper if you can find a rescue with rabbits in foster care, if its a clear-thinking rescue, they'd be willing to foster him in exchange for you taking another bunny, maybe a really shy one that needs socializing.

But if the two are tightly bonded, Copper may best live his life in separate room or a big cage. Darry lives in a roomy multi-level hutch-like set up with her mate Mister and has no desire to come out even when the door is open, although I see that probably won't sit as well with Copper. But if his smaller territory is interesting enough, he'll get over it.

PS: Copper sounds like my favorite kind of 'attitude' rabbit, like Dill and Scooter. Dill would play 'ambush' with the cats, he HATED being confined anywhere, and he'd nip you if you misbehaved, but he was the most cheerful and awesome rabbit ever. Hard to explain. Scooter was a very angry version of Dill, I was really looking forward to working with him. But the challenge isn't for everybody.


sas :clover:

 

[jbrule]

Bandi loves Copper, snuggles with him. Copper thinks she's ok but love my dogs more. They do share a cage though. Bandi is so mellow I think she would bond with another bun without too much trouble. I am worried that Copper will get sick from a cat bite or scratch. The first time he went after one of the cats, the cat pinned him on his back and was biting his stomach. Very scary! Copper usually has some sort of battle wound.

What do you do to keep your rabbits occupied? I give them magazines, baskets, boxes etc to tear up.

 

[Hazel-Mom]

jbrule wrote:

I think I am top rabbit to him. He doesn't go after me, I can reach in his cage, etc, he doesn't care. Trying to get everyone else to assert themselves is another issue. My 10 yo wont do it. I wish you lived near me James, I always say that I need a rabbit whisperer!

We had a female like that. She absolutely loved my daughter, but was slow to warm up to anyone else.
Pinning her down (gently!) worked wonders, after I plucked up my courage to do that, lol. Just hold him down gently at the back of the neck, while firmly but gently telling him "no", that his behaviour is not ok. Keep doing that, and he will learn eventually. I also found that ignoring ours when she lunged and tried to bite, and rewarding her when she had the good behaviour, worked very well. As you mentioned, your rabbit seems to be one of the smart ones, he will learn.

If your daughter is afraid of him and can't assert herself, you will have to do it for her to start off. You can try "bonding sessions" between rabbit and daughter. Equip her with thick gloves, long sleeves and pants he can't bite through, and boots if need be. Just have her be in an area with him and yourself. Then, each time he lunges at her, pin him down and tell him no. Each time he behaves well, reward him, with praise, and maybe a pellet or little piece of fruit to start with (later on you can just use praise).

Just like in rabbit-rabbit bonding sessions, keep the initial sessions short, then make them longer and longer. As your daughter and your bun relax around each other, have her give him the rewards. Then work up to her pinning him down. Eventually they should both be relaxed enough so she can take the gloves etc. off. In the end he should see her as Top Rabbit, too .

It will take some work and time, but it can be done. My own son used to be afraid of our biter, and he was older than your daughter! lol. Eventually she even shared his room (she got free roam in the kid's bedrooms, the hallway and the kitchen). She grew to love being held and petted. I loved to llisten to her "purr up a storm" when I held her .

But, as Sas mentioned, he may just not be the right bunny for your family. If you can't get a rescue to take him though, it may be worth trying the bonding.