First time having a sick rabbit... need some advice.

[zyymurgy]

Hello, I've come to this forum a couple of times but only lurked. I have two female rabbits, both of them from the same litter of mini-rex/lionhead breed, 6 years old. They were both spayed last October, once I had the funds.

Lately my black rabbit Cocoa has been sneezing, and when I took them in for their spay in October I mentioned it but the doctor didn't seem concerned.

Then recently I noticed her sister Cinnabun having trouble breathing, with on sneezing but occassional quiet/silent coughs. Then I noticed she was extremely thin... She's down to about 2 1/2 lbs as opposed to her healthy weight of over 4 and I can feel her spine, her hips, her ribs. Her tummy has made a bit of a comeback since I coaxed some greens into her but she's still quite light.

We took her in to the vet four days ago and he diagnosed her with bacterial pneumonia, as well as stress-related stasis.

The treatment he prescribed was probiotic in the morning and antibiotic in the evening, and plying her with her favorites. She hates taking medicine though and I end up getting a lot of the probiotic smeared into her whiskers. :\

I've fed her a lot of cilantro and an amount of kale, well washed and moist, and she is eating her treats with gusto. I also fed her a little pineapple, at the vet's reccommendation. She also loves her treats, which have a bit of fat in them and I figured a thin bunny needs a little fat, since it was already an occassional part of her diet... However, she doesn't seem interested in her pellets except to dig the red "goodies" out, and she is not very interested in her hay. I gave her both a bottle and a crock of water, but today she's not as interested in either.

I even went and picked fresh grass for her, as well as some young stems off our apple tree, and mixed her veggies in with her hay, but she ignores the grass/twigs and just digs out the cilantro.

I fed her a lot last night, and this morning her butt was pretty messy. I did some googling after I washed her off (with plain warm water) and it seems to me like that was mooshed up, malformed cecals. When I washed her, everything looked normal down there under the mess. I've seen her licking her booty since then, but when I picked her up and inspected her before I gave her the antibiotic, her anus was red and swollen, as opposed to small and pink.

In addition to this, I've heard some loud gurgling coming from the bun, although when I felt her stomach it was about normal.

So I cleaned her cage a little and gave her an old, soft shirt to sit on instead of white non-cedar wood shavings I use for her bedding/litter... But I'm not sure whether to be concerned or not. I've seen a few more normal looking poops in her box and no more messy ones, but that swelling...

So my questions are...

-What do you recommend to do for a rabbit who has lost a lot of weight and whose tummy is beginning to come out of GI stasis?

-Can you do anything for a rabbit with an advanced respiratory illness except give them a quarantine cage, fresh litter daily, and good food and medicine?

-What do I do about her swollen booty?

I'd be calling a vet, but it's 6pm on a Saturday and I can't seem to turn up any emergency vets in the Marysville, WA area :\ My regular vet is closed on weekends, but we plan on calling them Monday morning anyways. I'd just like to know if anybody has any advice, since my vet was a little bit vague. He's concerned though and we might have to put her to sleep if she can't recover from this... :c

 

[JBun]

So, your vet is saying that your rabbit is having stasis issues? GI stasis is when the rabbits digestive system slows down and eventually a blockage is created, and the rabbit stops eating and pooping. With your rabbit having a messy bum now, if she did have stasis, then she is past it. The messy bum can be in part from the antibiotics, and also the veggies and/or fresh grass. Anytime a new food is introduced to a rabbit, it needs to be given in very small small amounts and one new food at a time, and gradually increased each day, only if it doesn't create soft poops. If you are all of the sudden giving all these new foods to your rabbit, like the veggies, pineapple, fresh grass, then a poopy bum is going to be the result. I know that you are needing to get her to put on weight, and if she won't eat enough on her own, then you may need to get some Oxbow critical care food mix, so that you can syringe feed her, to ensure that she is getting adequate nutrition. But hopefully it may not come to that.

If stasis really was an issue before the poopy bum, then the pain from the respiratory problems could play a part, but diet is also often the issue when it comes to stasis. When a rabbit has stasis issues, there is a problem with bad bacteria causing gas and upsetting the balance in the digestive system. This can be caused by too many carbs and sugars in the rabbits diet, as well as stress(like from an illness). So if stasis has been a problem, it would be a really good idea to be feeding as little sugars and carbs as possible. Sometimes even pellets have to be reduced or eliminated, depending on the individual case.

I would stop the pineapple and any other new foods that you've just recently introduced, including the fresh grass. Don't feed any other starchy or sugary treats. Then the poopy bum should clear up. If the poopy bum clears up, you can feed her green leafy veggies that she is already used to and that she has been eating for a while. And as long as the soft poops don't come back, you can also gradually start increasing those amounts if you want.

It sounds like you are also feeding a 'treat' rabbit food, with the colorful bits in there. Is this right? Those foods actually aren't good for rabbits and can also cause the stasis problems, because of all the extra carbs from the treat pieces. With her having stasis problems, it probably wouldn't be good to change foods right now, but you could pick out the treat pieces so that she is only eating the regular green rabbit food pellets. Is she eating those at all? Is she eating any hay? Are you feeding unlimited pellets or are you limiting the amount she gets each day? Normally you don't feed adult rabbits alfalfa hay, but with your rabbit needing to put on weight it might be a good idea to start giving her some alfalfa hay. If you do you will need to start with a very small amount for a few days to make sure it doesn't cause digestive upset, then gradually increase the amount you give her each day. She may also eat the alfalfa hay more readily, as rabbits usually like it pretty well.

The swelling of her bum area, could just be from the poopy bum, so changing her diet and keeping her bum clean, may clear it up.

If she seems reluctant to eat at all, it may also be that she is experiencing some pain. Getting some metacam from the vet, will help a lot with that, and help her feel more inclined to eat.

Is your vet very experienced with rabbits. It's really important to have a very experienced rabbit vet. Here are some listings for good rabbit vets, if you need it.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f28/finding-vet-13366/
http://www.rabbit.org/vets/vets.html

This is also some info on GI stasis.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

 

[zyymurgy]

Thank you very much for such a quick reply.

For her, the kale and cilantro has been an on and off part of their diet. They don't get it daily but when they get greens, it's either kale or cilantro. The pineapple is the only *new* new thing, and the vet recommended I get her some, but reading this forum... I bought her canned pineapple, and tho the vet said yeah sure, I'm going to cut that out now that her poops are coming along.

She's been pooping all day today, and while they're relatively small and oblong compared to her sister's healthy poops, it's much better than the tiny tiny almost non-poops from yesterday and before.

However she isn't as keen on anything that isn't a "treat".

For her pellets, I've been feeding my bunnies the Kay-Tee Forti-Diet Pro, this exact food. It's mostly little brown pellets that are very fibrous, but in it are these little orangey-red things that my bunnies just love. I'm not sure what's in them. They seem to be very dense and crunchy; my guess is that since the site page brags about all the minerals and essential stuffs the feed has in it, these red bits have the bulk of that, and the pellets are the fiber but. I could be completely wrong.

In any case, she's been mostly eating the red bits out of her pellets and the fresh greens we give her. She turned her nose up at the fresh-picked grass except for a couple of pieces I coaxed her into eating. She does however seem to be nibbling a little bit of hay; I strewed it a little more liberally around her cage and some in the unused corner of her litter box, and I've seen her chewing at it. But the cilantro is the only thing I'll watch her hoover up from leaf to stem...

I'll try letting her finish what's in her cage and just give her a lot of hay, though.

As for the amount of pellets, when they're housed together I just fill up their food bowl with two cups of food. Whenever I see it low, I refill it. So they more or less have unlimited access, but on the bag it reccommends one cup of food per bunny per day, and they don't eat a whole scoop per day.

But as for being reluctant to eat... I can't really tell if she's being picky because she knows I'll give her more greens, or if there's something wrong, or if she just doesn't want her hay, or this or that or the other. DX

By the way, these are the treats I give her that she loves. I usually only give her one when she's been picked up and handled, but since she's been ill I've given her them a little more frequently, two or three a day instead of just one every day or so. When I rattle the treat bag she gets really excited, more energetic than she's been the past couple days. So she's still alert and still eager to eat a treat, which I count as a good sign...

The veteranarian I'm seeing currently is Dr. Jaaron Peterson, at the Northwest Animal Care Hospital. The doctor who did their spays was the other man, Dr. Brent Johnson, at the same facility. Their spay went off without a hitch, they do laser surgery and all kinds of therapy, and it's a very clean place with friendly staff... When I went to get an X-Ray for Cinnabunny they talked me through it immediately, then called me back a couple days later with an extended report. My only complaint is they're not 24/7 emergency care... :x

But thank you so much for the quick reply. I'm so glad I know of a place to come to and ask some questions.

 

[Imbrium]

I'm so sorry your bunny is sick... Jenny covered pretty much all the advice I've got to offer. I do have some tips on the probiotic, though.

I assume you're giving bene-bac gel or something similar... try mixing it in with some canned pumpkin (PLAIN, not the pie filling stuff) - use maybe 1-2 tsp of the pumpkin since you don't want to give her very much of something new and pumpkin does have some sugar in it. preservative free fruit or veggie flavored baby food could also work, but the pumpkin has some fiber in it (and I suspect, less sugar).

if that doesn't work, you can try getting the powder instead of the gel (I think petco sells it). you could lightly "dust" freshly-washed/still very wet veggies with the powder. another alternative would be to mix it in with some pedialyte and see if she'll drink that. as a last resort, you could mix it with water that's spiked with a small amount of pineapple juice (fresh is better than canned) or apple juice with no sugar added - maybe a 1:3 or 1:4 ratio of juice to water and a total of 2-3 tbsp of the juice/water/probiotic mixture.

basically, you want to keep the sugar to a minimum... but getting the probiotic in her (especially with her being on antibiotics) is important enough that it's worth her getting a very small amount of extra sugar.

if you're really worried, you might also try calling an emergency vet that's not local and see if you can find one experienced with bunnies who can give some advice over the phone.

I really hope she starts to feel better! ray:

 

[zyymurgy]

Update on yon bun,

Last night before I went to bed I had to clean her butt a little and it was still swollen... But this morning I checked her and the swelling and redness have both gone down. She seems to be pooping a lot more regularly, so that's a relief.

She had some loud gas gurgles, but they stopped, and she doesn't seem in any real discomfort.

The probiotic we're using is Probios Oral Pet Gel. I think the main problem is she hates 1) being restrained, and 2) having something in her mouth. So I'm definitely going to try getting some canned pureed pumpkin to trick her into eating it without my having to wrestle with her. It always makes me nervous to have to hold a bunny, and since she's so thin I don't want to manhandle her...

I'm pretty certain that with some coaxing I can get her to eat pumpkin. As soon as I get some dollars, I'm off to the store again. (And I'm going to eat all the pineapple I got for her. >:3 )

I don't know if it's wishful thinking or not, but I think she feels a little heavier. I wish I had a scale and a stethoscope!

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Another thing I've done with my older buns is to re-introduce alfalfa hay back into their diet as a way to give them back some of their lost bulk.

 

[zyymurgy]

I think tomorrow I'm going to get a little bale of alfalfa hay and see if I can entice her with it...

She won't eat canned pumpkin though.

Edited to add: My bunny just passed away. Thank you all for your advice. I will remember everything in case of the future.

 

[Azerane]

I'm so sorry. What a shock, just when she seemed to be getting better. *hugs*

 

[KeltonB]

Oh no! It's so heartbreaking just when you start to see some improvement...that has happened to me before. I hope your other bunny is doing well.

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

I'm so sorry! Its never easy!

 

[Imbrium]

I'm so sorry . I really thought she would make it through! at least she had a great life, with a loving and caring owner who did everything possible for her right up until the very end. sadly, that's more than many bunnies get.

binky free, little girl! :rainbow: