*Dosage Check!*

[pinksalamander]

I've been given Baytril for Lottie. I wanted to make absolutley double-triple sure that it was the right dosage.... i'm sure you understand that!

It says 1.6ml each day. 1ml is about a thumbs width up my syringe. Does that sound about right?

Also does anyone have any tips for feeding it to her? I'll do it when she is a bit more relaxed to get her to stay still. Shall i just hold her down/stroke her and put it in the side of her mouth, or should i try flipping her and getting my Mum to do it? She will let me flip her for about a minute but having somethign shoved in her mouth might freak her.

Thanks in advance.

Fran :hearts :brownbunny

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Couple of things here....first, why are you administering Baytril and is it under the supervision of a vet? The dosage is determined by a formula of weight multiplied times mean dosing divided by concentration of the drug. If the Baytril has been compounded, the actual concentration of the drug can be anything. If it is straight up injectable Baytril, the concentration should be 22.7 mg/ml. The concentation of the drug should be on the label. To give you an example of the dosing of a compounded drug....if the drug is compounded to 20 mg/ml, the dosing of the same name medication compounded at 10 mg/ml is effectielytwice the previous dose. It is confusing if it is something you have never been trained to do. And compounding (which is done a lot with rabbit meds) can make giving advice on dosing amounts very dangerous. And another little tid-bit of info we have seen here.....Baytril is much more effective when injected. It is not my first choice of antibiotics but is still frequently prescribed by vets because it is considered safe.....but sometimes there are other options that work better.

I will be happy to confirm your dosing if you provide me with the weight of your rabbit and the concentration of the drug (as per the label).

Randy

 

[pinksalamander]

I don't have her exact weight.. we don't have any scales! She is a medium-large rabbit but i doubt that helps. Its because of her eye. She has a blocked tear duct but the vet was concerned her sneezing could be due to something more sinister like pasturella, so she advised i give this to aid the eye drops she is already on but also to be effective if anything else might be going on.

Yes it has been prescribed by a vet. I just wanted to check because i've heard so many horror stories about people nearly overdosing their rabbtis.

The packet doesn't say ANYTHING on it about the dosage because it has been bottled in the vets. Its oral drops.

I didn't really think about this. Its probably impossible to say. Sorry :?

Fran :hearts :brownbunny

 

[ra7751]

Well...a couple of more thoughts. It appears that most likely the Baytril was compounded by your vet (or chemist) so unless we know the exact concentration of the drug (along with weight)...confiming proper dosing is impossible. The proper way to diagnose pasteurella is by culture to confirm. While many vets still treat based on symptoms, the way bacteria is mutating these days, assuming something is probably not a good idea. I have been seeing other pathogens (most notably strep) that is also presenting issues mimicing classic pasteurella issues. And if it is pasteurella, ask your vet about using Zithromax. Pasteurella is becoming increasingly resistant to Baytril. At the current time (and this is subject to change....ref. mutating bacteria)....zithromax is one of the most effective and safe treatments for pasteurella.

Randy

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

I don't know about dosage. Call your vet if you have issues. They should know more about it than someone here as they have the bottles and more info on what is needed.

As for giving it, I do it sneaky. Fill the syringe, sneak up of the bunny, open the mouth and sqiurt it in. If it's too much to get in with one shot, put bunny on your lap (I use a pillow) put the syringe in the corner of the mouth and do a bit at a time. Give treats after. I wouldn't put the Lottie on her back. The meds could go the wrong way. Also more stressful for her. I like the sneaky way. They don't know what happened, but there is a wierd taste in the mouth. :huh

 

[pinksalamander]

Thanks for your help anyhoo. It is officially IMPOSSIBLE to give Lottie meds. She won't let me go anywhere near her head at all! When I tried to 'suprise' her she just moved her head around. She hates it! I tried everything. In the end i squirted it onto some cauliflower and left it in her cage. We had to go out, but when we came back the cauliflower was gone so i'm guessing she ate it fine.

Can anyone suggest any other inventive ways?

 

[mouse_chalk]

I can't help you on the dosing, Chalk being 1.6kg gets 1.2mls a day, so 1.6 doesn't sound too much, but I wouldn't go by that, in case like Randy says it's different concentrations...

But, with the feeding, you aren't alone! Chalk is also impossible to feed. It's stressful for her, but there's no other way we've found. We put her on the sofa and put a towel round her, then I lean sort of over her, so she can't escape with her back legs, and hold her front paws and shoulders together, which also holds her head still, then Steve will syringe the medicine in. She tries to pull her head inside the towel, and you have to kind of fold the towel back to find her head again. It sounds horrific, but I promise it isn't. The more firm you are, without holding her too hard, the less she will struggle and the less likely she is to hurt herself.

Snowy is bigger, and for her I hold her upside down, and syringe it in, but make sure her head is propped up a little. Chalk wont swallow upside down so that doesn't work for her.

Good luck!

Jen xx

 

[Haley]

Yeah, especially if theyre using Baytril tablets compounded into a liquid its difficult to know what your concentration is. I would call your vet to double check if you have concerns.

As for giving liquid meds- my favorite way is by putting the bunny in a bunny burrito. You essentially wrap the bun in a towel so they cant kick out, then hold them on your lap and put the syringe behind the front teeth. Be sure to do it slow so she can swallow it. It really helps to have a helper hold her down/in place while you give the medicine.

Did your vet flavor the meds? Mine flavors it Pina Colada and Basil goes nuts for it! You might try giving her a treat after her meds so she associats the meds with good things

 

[undergunfire]

I just got Baytril for Benson today and I was told to give him 0.3mL, which is about the width of the top of my thumb if held up to the syringe. Benson weighs almost 4lbs.

Definitely listen to Haley and give treats after Baytril. It is nasty smelling and probably very nasty tasting. Mixing it with a little tad of baby food is a good idea too. Just put in the amount of Baytril into the syringe, then suck up another 0.3mL of baby food into the same syrigne...then shoot it into their mouth .

Don't forget to take off the needle .

 

[Haley]

I just wanted to mention one more thing on Baytril especially with regards to dosage. Some vets give the injectible baytril orally (its the stuff that smells like rubbing alcohol) which will have a very low dosage. If the vet uses baytril tabs and compounds them in a lot of liquid for flavor, you will have a very high dosage. So when we're talking about baytril there is such a wide range of dosage possibilities.

Just thought you guys might like to know that interesting tidbit

 

[pinksalamander]

Thanks for all your help guys but she literally won't let me go near her mouth with that thing. She just jerks away. I said in another post maybe it is something to do with her previous home, because i can't touch her eyes nose cheeks mouth etc (no nose pets from me!) I wanted to try mixing it with some sweet stuff like applejuice but the problem is she won't actually let me get it near her mouth to get even a taste of it! I think i'm just going to have to stick with the Baytril smothered veggies!

Fran :hearts :brownbunny

 

[ra7751]

Just another quick comment about Baytril. Personally, it is not one of my first choices in dealing with infections but my situation here is much different than most others. Doctors still prescribe Baytril just because it has been considered "safe" for years. The fact remains that many of the bacteria that were once sensitive to Baytrilare mutating and Baytril just doesn't cut it in all situations. It seems that pasteurella is one of the bacterium that is mutating.....and we have a rabbit here in our rescue that we cultured pasteurella while he was taking both Baytril and SMZ.....that is unreal. Pasteurella is something (like coccidia) that can't really be cured by a drug but can be controlled by the rabbit's immune system....I call it "putting the genie back into the bottle". It is vital to work to support and strengthen the immune system as that will be what ultimately "cures" most any infection. Antibiotics work in different ways depending on the drug....some work by attacking the cell walls of the bacteria and killing it and some work by limiting the bacteria's ability to reproduce. A couple of drugs that you might discuss with your vet about using are Zithromax or Chloramphenicol. Side effects for Zithromax are usually pretty mild and include a bit of an upset GI in some sensitive rabbits for the first couple of days and a decrease in overall appetite (as with most antibiotics). We have not seen any major issues in using Chloramphenicol as far as the rabbit.....but the rare human can have a serious reaction just by handling the drug. Simple precautions will avoid this issue. And as far as Batril, if that is what your vet wants you to use.....it is more effective and easier to administer as an injectable. In most cases you can use a small gauge human insulin needle and most rabbits don't even know they have been stuck. Once you learn how to inject, you will want to inject everything as it is much easier than fighting to force an oral drug, it assures you get the right amount of medication into the body and by knowing how to inject, it opens an entirely new world of possible treatments if they are needed.

Randy

 

[SnowyShiloh]

I hope it's okay if I post my own dosage question in this thread! Today I got Zithromax for Skyler, I had to actually take the prescription to the pharmacy at the grocery store to be filled. I'm afraid they might have misread the prescription or something, because it cost $75 and I got two whole bottles of the Zithromax for 10 days! Skyler weighs 2.7 pounds, and I'm supposed to give him 3 mL once a day for 10 days. It was a powder they mixed with water. The label says "Generic for: Zithromax 100/5 mL SU". Is that the concentration? In another spot, it says "Whe constituted as directed, each 5 mL contains azithromycin monohydrate equivalent to 100 mg of azithromycin".

The vet is closed until the morning and I'm not going to give him any until I hear that it's okay. This just sounds like too much medicine to me.

 

[undergunfire]

I know you AREN'T supposed to give bunnies dairy in the first place, but you also aren't supposed to feed any dairy products within 2 hours after giving Baytril or any "cillin" (I think) meds.

I'm not sure what dairy someone would feed their bunnies besides a yoggie maybe, but just putting it out there.




Also, commonly with rats to cure infection...is Zithro/Baytril combo or Doxy/Baytril combo. So, I am not sure if Doxy is used in rabbits, though.


ETA: fixed my spelling mistake.

 

[ra7751]

That sounds right to me. The dosing of Zithromax in a rabbit is quite high....in fact most vets tremendously underdose Zithromax with rabbits. Working the formulary, this is what I come up with based on the concentration you have provided, the weight and what I know to be proper dosing of Zithromax.

2.7 lbs. is approximately 1.2kgs. Dosing of Zithromax is 50mg/kg. The concentration of the suspension (that is what the SU means) is 20mg/ml (100 mg divided by 5ml=20).

1.2 (weight) times 50 (mean dosing)=60 divided by 20 (the concentration per ml)=3

Make sure you shake the suspension well before each dosing.

Make sure to give at the same time each day to keep the working levels even. You can do the full 3ml once a day or 1.5ml every 12 hours...but stay on schedule.

You might see just a bit of GI upset the first day or so...nothing serious. Keep the hay going. Offer a probiotic such as Bene Bac to support the pH in the GI.

There may be some loss of appetite when using Zithromax.

Zithromax is an excellent drug against pasteurella and several other pathogens. I have been using it for years....long before most vets caught on. Another option in using Zithromax. Have a pharmacy compound the powder into capsules. You can get capsules in most any size you need. This little guy needs about 60mg per dose. You can calculate the powder from the capsules and put it in a piece of banana or baby food or something like that. The stuff I have makes a pretty green color. The stuff made specifically for suspension is pink is I remember correctly...been a long time since I have used it that way. It's worth the money.....great drug for rabbits.

Randy

 

[ra7751]

Rabbits should never get dairy products...including yogurt as they are lactose intolerant. Baytril is becoming much less effective across all species due to misuse over the years (same thing with penicillin in humans). Baytril is more effective when injected if it is used. Pasteurella and many other pathogens are becoming resistant to Baytril. Doxycycline is safe and effective against sensitive pathogens in rabbits. We used it against a peptostreptococcus bacteria in a rescue rabbit. From my experiences, the most effective drugs currently against pasteurellas (the most common cause of infections in rabbits) are Zithromax, Penicillin or Chloramphenicol.

Randy

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Wow, Randy, that was a quick reply! Thanks! I also posted about the vet visit over in Skyler's Infirmary thread, I'd really appreciate it if you could take a look. Thanks for confirming the dosage amount, I seemed to recall you saying rabbits need high doses of Zithromax, but I wanted to be sure. Also, I actually have Benebac from Tallulah's final illness. She never even got to take any, but the container was opened by the vet. Is it still good? It was opened on May 29th. How much should I give him?

 

[undergunfire]

ra7751 wrote:

Rabbits should never get dairy products...including yogurt as they are lactose intolerant.

I definitely know this, but I am sure there is someone out there who feeds their rabbits "Yoggies" because it says on the little container that its a rabbit (ferret, guinea pig, rat, ect) treat .



ETA: I made a spelling mistake up there. I meant tot say that rabbits AREN'T supposed to have dairly products. Sorry about that!