Diarrhea in a litter of 6 week old rabbits

[Pipp]

murph72 wrote:

Pipp, Why are you so against the use of Dri-tail? It has worked wonders for me with ME. I generally give them an entire dropper three times a day. It stops the runs and then the benebac helps to get the proper bacteria levels in the gut. The combination of the two has saved every ME case I've had since another breeder suggested it to me.

Havent checked lately, label used to specifically say not for use on rabbits.

Its an antibiotic, it can cause an imbalance if there isn't, stasis, as well as a future antibiotics resistance. I probably wouldnt be opposed where its confirmed the antibiotic is needed or in 'hail mary' cases. Cant type well enough to explain.


sas

 

[murph72]

Just checked the label and it doesn't specifically say it's for rabbits, nor does it say it isn't to be used on rabbits. I've been using it for at least two or three years now for ME and have never had an issue with it. It stops the diarrhea within a day and then with the benebac the gut seems to get back on track pretty quickly. I like quick solutions for ME, so that's why I swear by it. The longer it's drawn out, the less likely the rabbit will get over it.

I personally can count on one hand the number of times I've used an antibiotic for my rabbits, so I'm not really all the scared about them getting immune to antibiotics. I figure you use the product that brings about a quick solution. If the rabbit's diarrhea is already watery, I'd say it's already a hail Mary kind of case.

 

[The Haven Rabbitry]

Ok, well, here's more info for you. The babies are still in with mom, nursing as well. They are going to her dish to eat pellets. They are also drinking well.I do give my rabbits orchard grass/timothy hay mix a few times a week. This is per the advice of my breeder I get my rabbits from. I feed mom and babies Manna Pro Gro formula. Fiber is 20%. I just assumed the hay since they hadn't had it before and immediately following the next day they broke with diarrhea. I've raised other rabbits the same way with no troubles on the pellets.These rabbits have not been exposed to any other rabbits or cages. The mother has not been switched between cages except one time to breed with the buck. I do not have alot of rabbits, and have never had this problem with any other litters. Everyone is still very active and eating well. It's hard to decide what to do since there is so much conflicting information.:? But thanks to those of you who gave me advice.

I can give sub-q fluids with no problem. I just didn't know what to do since I've never had this problem before.

Thanks

 

[Happi Bun]

Dri Tail should not be used on Rabbits. It is a product used on small rodents... rabbits are not rodents.

Quote per Amazon website, "Do not use on none rodents such as rabbits."
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002RJMDC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Jynxie]

I would contact your vet to be honest, and see what they say. You could even call and ask if they have any of the products mentioned and if these would work (in their opinion).

I peronally really loved critical care, and it saved my little guy from diarrhea. You can see my topic called (resolved, harleys not doing well...). But I would consult a vet, or have some more people chime in on their thoughts.

 

[murph72]

LOL Rabbits aren't rodents. Go to Bunnyrabbit.com. That, as well as many other reputable sites to purchase rabbit supplies, sell Dri-tail to be used on rabbits. Amazon isn't exactly a reputable site for rabbit information. That's also not what the product packaging says now. I have the present packaging and am not relying on Amazon.

Do you think I, as well as many other reputable breeders, have been using it on our show bunnies without any issues because we're just "lucky"? If I had that kind of luck I'd play the lottery.

 

[murph72]

Haven,
What do you have on hand? Do you have Benebac in any of its forms? That's the first thing you can do irregardless of any other treatment. If they are eating on their own, there is no need to force critical care. I would stop the pellets and move to strictly timothy hay (I don't use anything except pure timothy, so I'm not sure if there would be any problems with the orchard grass mixed in). If you have oats, I'd use that as a replacement for the pellets. It sits well in their stomach and is easy to digest. I'd have to bet that you are dealing with ME as the age fits and you haven't exposed them to any outside ailments.

If they are eating, do you know if they are also drinking? My guess is that they are because usually dehydrated rabbits don't eat. Sub-q fluids wouldn't hurt, but might be unnecessary as of yet if they are still hydrated and eating.

 

[Happi Bun]

murph72 wrote:

LOL Rabbits aren't rodents. Go to Bunnyrabbit.com. That, as well as many other reputable sites to purchase rabbit supplies, sell Dri-tail to be used on rabbits. Amazon isn't exactly a reputable site for rabbit information. That's also not what the product packaging says now. I have the present packaging and am not relying on Amazon.

Do you think I, as well as many other reputable breeders, have been using it on our show bunnies without any issues because we're just "lucky"? If I had that kind of luck I'd play the lottery.

I'm not sure why me saying Rabbits are not rodents is so funny... :?

I'm not challenging your opinion, just providing information to the OP so they can form their OWN opinion. It appears popular to use with breeders. I personally am not going to use a product that says, do not use on rabbits, on my rabbits.

 

[murph72]

Sorry, I get lots of people who say rabbits are rodents, so I think it's kind of funny when someone on a rabbit forum is actually saying they're not rodents. Yes, they're not rodents, but they're not horses either...and many horse medications work on rabbits. The current packaging does not say a word about not using it on rabbits...perhaps they changed something in the formula since that original packaging.

As breeders we've definitely dealt with more issues than the typical rabbit owner. Rather than just having dealt with ME once, I've dealt with it numerous times...as have my other friends who breed and show rabbits. My rabbits are worth a great deal to me, as they are to my friends.....we've had the opportunity to try out different treatments to find what works best. For me, Dri-tail and Benebac have worked awesome. I have not had as much luck with using Critical Care and will only use it when they are no longer eating on their own.

 

[Happi Bun]

I'm well aware they are not horses and I did not mention any type of comparison, so I'm not sure why you would bring that up. To my understanding in the past the packaging did state not for use with rabbits due to they had not yet tested it on them to make sure it was okay. Perhaps that has changed.

That's all I will say on the subject though, since I don't want to clutter Haven's thread with this disagreement. Good luck with your babies, sending healing vibes to them.

ray:

 

[Pipp]

murph72 wrote:

As breeders we've definitely dealt with more issues than the typical rabbit owner. Rather than just having dealt with ME once, I've dealt with it numerous times...as have my other friends who breed and show rabbits. My rabbits are worth a great deal to me, as they are to my friends.....we've had the opportunity to try out different treatments to find what works best. For me, Dri-tail and Benebac have worked awesome. I have not had as much luck with using Critical Care and will only use it when they are no longer eating on their own.

ME can be lots of different things. Best for the OP to read the link to the Pamela Alley/Showbunny article, its one of the best I've seen for breeders. She's the head of the Rabbit Industry Council.

I strongly recommend against that many oats. They have fiber but the carbs can feed any bad bacteria making the problem worse.

Re: Dri-tail, repeatedly having the same problem likely means the same cause (the same bacteria) so not surprising its works all the time. So yes, luck does enter into it. You have the right antibiotic for your bacteria.

But your litters may be getting it more often in the first place because the Dri-tail has only killed off the weaker bacteria members allowing the stronger ones to survive and strike again.

And it really needs to not be recommended and then have rabbit guardians with different problems trying Dri-Tail instead of proper diagnostics and the supportive treatment actually needed -- fiber and fluids.

sas

 

[murph72]

Ok. I give up. For the record, bacteria is not running rampant in my rabbitry. ME has been treated with Dri-tail by numerous breeders in numerous rabbitries. I doubt we're all dealing with the same bacteria unless you're arguing that ME is caused by the same bacteria in all. In my experience, ME is caused by the bunny moving too quickly to solids, not by bacteria entering into the situation.

Try what you wish, I offered what has worked for me and my friends numerous times, not just once.

Oats and oatmeal sit better in their system when ME is the culprit than the pellets.

Ok....done now. Do what you wish. Done responding and don't plan on doing it again anytime soon. That's why I don't visit this site often. It's rampant with pet owners and anti-breeder individuals. Though, I wonder where you all get your rabbits if it isn't from responsible breeders like myself. You'd think you'd want to listen to those that have more experience, but perhaps owning pets and running to the vet all the time is the way to go on here. Personally, our vets suck, so I have learned to treat things myself. It doesn't stress out my rabbits hauling them to a vet that will likely give them something pointless like Baytril.

 

[TinysMom]

I'm finding this discussion fascinating so I googled a bit on Dri-Tail and rabbits.

The places I found (that weren't stores) that recommended Dri-Tail - were older websites that also recommended using yogurt (and we know now how that isn't a good idea).

I've never used Dri-Tail so I can't say much about it - but just because a rabbit supplier carries it - doesn't make it "safe" in my personal opinion (for my own rabbits).

Anyway - I found it interesting that some breeders did recommend it - but their webpages seemed to be older ones.

 

[Maureen Las]

What about the biosponge ?



http://www.entirelypets.com/platbio15cc.html

I know Randy swears by this
problem is obtaining it although many horse owners have it around

 

[Maureen Las]

The manufacturer states not to use Dri-tail on rabbits ????
it is basically neomycin sulfate

http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/index.php?page=shop-flypage-22071#longdesc

 

[Pipp]

Murph, the link I posted for the best advice was from Showbunny/the Rabbit Industry Council, hardly anti-breeder.

http://www.showbunny.com/gastrointestinal.html

Also bacteria is everywhere and may be prominent/specific to an area or food source or whatever, eg humans carry e coli and can transmit to babies with weak immune systems, etc. , or food causing bacterial imbalances, etc, you misunderstood, not discussing husbandry.

deleting first paragraph, repetitious, better explained elsewhere.


sas

 

[Happi Bun]

murph72 wrote:

Ok....done now. Do what you wish. Done responding and don't plan on doing it again anytime soon. That's why I don't visit this site often. It's rampant with pet owners and anti-breeder individuals. Though, I wonder where you all get your rabbits if it isn't from responsible breeders like myself. You'd think you'd want to listen to those that have more experience, but perhaps owning pets and running to the vet all the time is the way to go on here. Personally, our vets suck, so I have learned to treat things myself. It doesn't stress out my rabbits hauling them to a vet that will likely give them something pointless like Baytril.

Oh no, not pet owners! We don't know anything about rabbit health, think they are either rodents or horses and constantly have to bring our sick pet bunnies to the vet. :rollseyes

FYI - I have yet to have to bring my bunnies to the vet for health problem, thank you. Where we get our rabbits is irrelevant. Experience does not make someone automatically correct, that your opinion HAS to be followed, or that you can never be wrong.

Anti-Breeders? Not at all. There are plenty of breeders and pet owners alike on this forum. Heads do butt, opinions differ from time to time, but it's filled with that much more information and advice. You want find a forum this size with this amount of activity with a rescue AND also breeder section.

Just felt like defending RO, sorry for getting off topic.

 

[TinysMom]

Happi Bun wrote:

Heads do butt, opinions differ from time to time

Us?

Butt heads?

Have differing opinions?

On THIS forum?

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Yep - all the time.

I love the fact that we agree to disagree and still respect each other.

Sorry - I was reading your comment about heads butting and I started to spit out my drink cause I was laughing so hard.....

 

[Sweetie]

So was I Peg, except I wasn't drinking.

Original Poster: Please talk to your vet and keep those babies hydrated. Remember every rabbit is different. What works for one doesn't always work for another. What worked for Sweetie may not work for another rabbit. But hydration before nutrition. Murph gave some good advice but I think they were pushing what they knew worked for their rabbits on you, for you to use on your rabbits.

Best advice on here is to talk to your vet and see what they say, also listen to the mods they know what they are doing. They have researched information about rabbits of different ages. They are awesome!!! I would trust Pipp, Tinysmom, Angieluv, Randy(ra7751), and Tonyshuman, over any member.

Pet owners do not know rabbits??? BULL. Everyone experiences different problems. I know for a fact that rabbits are not rodents, they are lagomorphs(sp). My vet calls them miniature horses, because they eat hay and their teeth continuosly grow, just like horses teeth. I know more about rabbits now than I did when I starting owning rabbits.

This forum is a wonderful place.

 

[The Haven Rabbitry]

Thanks. I will try the benebac. They are all drinking and still eating. I just hope for the best! Thanks to those of you who gave me advice! Much appreciated!