Critique?

[SilverBirchRabbitry]

I do not want anyone telling me I don't need anymore rabbits, to be frank, I really don't care lol My cages, my money, my space. End of story

Anyways I'm suppose to be purchasing this buck and possibly his daughter in 2 weeks. The buck already has a leg. The guy doesn't pose them all that well either, but he isn't horrible.

Anyways here is the buck:

Here is the doe (waiting on the ears to lop):

The buck was born in Febuary, so he will be a year old soon, I don't think he is a bad looking Holland, but I'm not good with Hollands :/

The little doe was born September 23rd. I have a nice buck with nice ears to breed her to already

Is $45 a fair price for either of them? Please let me know!

 

[katt]

first i think they are both adorable!

second, hard to tell on body type when the guy didn't pose them very well.

but the buck looks like his ears are a tad to long, and the crown is slipped a little. i would pair him up with a doe that has nice ears and crown. his color looks good, not to much smutting.

i would go check him out in person, his back foot seems a little cocked funny, could be the way he is standing, or his HQ's could be a littlepinched. seems to have nice width to the head, and good shape. he seems in overall great condition.

the little doe is to up in the air, she is right in her uglies age range and the pics aren'tto great, but it does look like she has nice width to her body and great bone mass. her ear length looks good, so does her head, but i would look at her crown and pair her up with a buck with good ears (like you said)

now, this is all comming from someone that hasn't bred holland lops in over 5 years now, so i might be a little rusty, but it was fun critiqueing some buns, haven't done it in so long!

they are both so adorable, i love broken fawns

 

[TinysMom]

katt wrote:

but the buck looks like his ears are a tad to long, and the crown is slipped a little. i would pair him up with a doe that has nice ears and crown. his color looks good, not to much smutting.

i would go check him out in person, his back foot seems a little cocked funny, could be the way he is standing, or his HQ's could be a littlepinched. seems to have nice width to the head, and good shape. he seems in overall great condition.


now, this is all comming from someone that hasn't bred holland lops in over 5 years now, so i might be a little rusty, but it was fun critiqueing some buns, haven't done it in so long!

they are both so adorable, i love broken fawns

OMG....I'm NOT a holland lop breeder - but I've looked at them enough that everything I was thinking when I first looked at the picture - you posted.

I'm not sure where the majority of points are on hollands....but it seems from everything I've always read that the crown is pretty important - am I right?

 

[Fancy77]

I gonna tell ya not to get the doe cuz I want her sent to me lol

 

[TinysMom]

SilverBirchRabbitry wrote:

Here is the doe (waiting on the ears to lop):

The buck was born in Febuary, so he will be a year old soon, I don't think he is a bad looking Holland, but I'm not good with Hollands :/

The little doe was born September 23rd. I have a nice buck with nice ears to breed her to already

Is $45 a fair price for either of them? Please let me know!

This is just personal opinion based on my experience with lionheads and breeding decisions in general that I've learned to make.

I will not bring any buck into my herd (pay money for one) unless he is outstanding and better than what I already have. For instance - I love Hermes but he isn't the buck I want for my herd (at least not the main one). I will do a couple of breedings with him to get some whites - but then he will probably be rehomed. Mercury - I find it hard to think I can find a better buck than him in this area - although I know of a breeder in Mass. who has one I want that I think would be an improvement to my lines. SO other than that one breeder - I'm not adding any other bucks (unless Wabbitdad decides to let Titan go...he is Nyx's dad).

Why? Because I have outstanding bucks for type and color in what I want to work with.

As I look at that buck - I don't see him as being "outstanding". I don't know holland lops - but he looks long in body to me...along with the other comments about his crown, etc.

If you already have a buck with good ears, etc. - then keep the one buck you have and pass on this one.

Now as far as does go - I'm less picky. I am not as fond of this girl's head - but I like it - and I like the fact that her body is shorter.

I'm going to share an example of a buck that I bought as a pet - but I was told he would make a nice show buck...

What I was told by breeders - was that he had a nice short body and would probably naturally pose....which he frequently did sit in a posed position because it felt natural to him.

Anyway - I like the doe because she seems to have a shorter body than the dad does. If you take her to a good buck then you could get some really nice babies out of her.

But that is just my opinion as a breeder in general - not a holland lop breeder.

As far as $45....I would say that is fair for her because she is still young and you don't know for sure how she will develop. I've seen the really NICE show quality hollands go for $75 and up here in Texas if I remember right (you know - the ones the breeders were lining up arount the breeder's area to admire the rabbits and get first choice?).

But for him - I see him more as a "pet" rabbit if you already have a nice buck...

Just my .02 ~ feel free to ignore it!

 

[TinysMom]

Fancy77 wrote:

I gonna tell ya not to get the doe cuz I want her sent to me lol

Of course you would want the one that might be worth adding to a herd for show...

You sure you're not a breeder in secret?

 

[Fancy77]

LOL Maybe..

 

[elrohwen]

I'm not a huge fan of the buck. He's majorly cute, but I don't think his type is great. His body is too long and sloped. His back feet are a little weird ... I have a Holland who naturally poses all the time and his feet never look like that. I have to expect pinched hindquarters on that one. His ears are also too long and his crown is slipped. He's adorable, but I would only get him as a pet, not for showing or breeding.

I can't really tell much on the little doe since she's not sitting sideways and she's still pretty young.

 

[pamnock]

I agree that the buck just doesn't have any attributes as a herd buck if you want to breed a show quality line. A more accurate assessment can be given if he's properly posed. (Front toes even with eyes, and the head not artifically held up.) Avoid breeding animals with slipped crowns - it really detracts from the appearance of the head. With so many points on the head, it's not a trait that you want to perpetuate into a herd. (I'd choose one with ear control over one with a slipped crown).

All young Hollands are cute and may appear typey when they are very young. For this reason, I don't recommend buying weanlings as potential breeding stock. If a finger has to be held under the chin to keep the head up - then that Holland does not have potential as a show animal.

Pam

 

[Niomi]

I know nothing about breeding or judging rabbits, but I am curious, what does it mean, "The buck already has a leg"?

 

[BlueGiants]

Niomi wrote:

I know nothing about breeding or judging rabbits, but I am curious, what does it mean, "The buck already has a leg"?

It means he has been shown and won a "Leg Certificate", he had to win either his class (Best Junior or Senior Buck), take Best of Variety or Best of Breed over at least 5 other rabbits of the same breed owned by at least three other people.

When a rabbit gets 3 "Legs" (and it is registered) it can be Grand Championed through the ARBA.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Definitely not herdsire material, in my opinion.

He is longer in face than I'd like to see. A shorter, more smooshed face is preferable.He also has long ears and a very slipped crown.

It's hard to see body or evaluate the shoulders, but he looks pretty pinched and possibly undercut in the hindquarter. He could also use more bone...it's decent, but again, in a buck you want to see the best qualities you can find.

Cute bunny, but not one that I would choose to influence my herd.

 

[Blaze_Amita]

I've got to ask, I've tried to get a good answer before but missedit. I keep seeing you guys say he's got a slipped crown, can someone explain that? I've got two bucks of my own that i've been trying to assess for a while and they've got good bone, ears but a judge has never said they had slipped crowns, until this one judge.
Can someone explain that?

BTW, the little girl is adorable, the buck, looks too much like my Blaze and i know he's not herd sire material or much of a sire at all so he's just a pet, i have two others instead.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Blaze_Amita wrote:

I've got to ask, I've tried to get a good answer before but missedit. I keep seeing you guys say he's got a slipped crown, can someone explain that? I've got two bucks of my own that i've been trying to assess for a while and they've got good bone, ears but a judge has never said they had slipped crowns, until this one judge.
Can someone explain that?

Well, the crown is the area of the head between the ears- the "poofy" part. This is what actually holds the ears and determines ear placement and carriage.

Ideally, the crown will sit on top of the head, so that the ears fall in front of or directly behind the eye.

A "slipped" crown just refers to an incorrect placement of the crown. Or in other words, when the crown is literally slipped too far back on the head. When this happens, you'll see the poof further back towards the shoulder than on the top of the head, and the ears usually sit 1-2 or more fingerlengths behind the eye.

If you look at the picture of this buck, you can see that his crown is very slipped. Looks like you could fit 2 fingers between the eye and the ear, and the "poof" appears almost back near the shoulder. You can especially see it in the last picture.

 

[Blaze_Amita]

Sorry, didn't pose them for pictures, just took quick shots of them to compare to your buck Jackie.

The solid Tort is Gabriel, he did very well as a junior and held his own as a senior. I haven't gotten him to reproduce himself on the show table, he's a bit out of coat there. I use him to base a lot of my type off since he's done well.

The broken Blue is Speedle, I got him to counter balance Autumn(my broken tort doe) He had very nice ears and the judges all liked him(other than the sunburned fur). He got judged once, but one judge that said his crown was slipped. I didn't want to try sitting the two boys side by side to try and compare them.

The broken Orange is Blaze(blaze of orange color down his back) His head and ears look very familiar to the little buck you are looking at.

Gabriel and Speedle do decent on the show table but Speedle throws very nice little babies with Autumn. Their kids have out done their parents on the table. Gabriel and Speedle have flatter faces if you can see it, whereas Blaze and your buck don't have that flat 'persian cat' like face.

As for the slipped crown, I couldn't tell ya

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

My only thing is, that doe, if she's 3 months and her ears arn't dropped, I personally would NOT spend 45 on her.

It's been awhile, but I can't remember every having a yuong lop go out the door that its ears wern't already down. I had a few messed up Minis that I can think of off hand, but still everything that was going down, was down by less then 2 months. Maybe thats not an up to date pic. Or maybe its just been way too long for me. But if I'm buying breeding stock, i want something that I can get in good health and of proper age, so that I can plan for litters.... I don't want to have to feed something out until breeding age.


Anyways I agree with the others. I'd want a more perfect buck. Ask to see the papers that came back from the show to see what the judges said was incorrect. y I mean thats not always a perfect thing either but you'd have an idea of what the judges liked/disliked about him... Because it is a bit hard to tell Everything from a picture... And ask the owner about the other rabbits there that day.

Hollands over populate a show here, theres soo many to choose from with better head quailties then that buck.

 

[Blaze_Amita]

I just thought about the little doe, I've been spending time thinking on her. I wouldn't do it, not for something that unknown, at least not $45. Blaze, my buck(Picture above) his littermates and his ears didn't lop before 8 weeks, he was almost 4 months before they lopped and they turned out far from show quality. The one litter I had from him to a very nice doe had 2/or half the litter not show quality and those had also not lopped before the 8 weeks, the other 2 that had lopped were okay, not great though. THey went on to pet homes. I mean if his bloodline is one that you really want I would get it only as a brood prospect, get a baby from her and then move her on to a pet home-as harsh as that sounds. I ended up pet homing all of Blazes children and have never used him again. That poorer quality always seems to show itself in the end.

The same goes for any breed. I did it with a blue dutch buck, Lars, kept his son Larry-moving Lars on and then kept Larry's daughter Robyn- moving Larry on, but Robyn's kids were decently tempermented, because Sam is. Robyn was the spitting image of Lars(in tempermant, Lars was unshowable, Robyn was a decent doe)

 

[SilverBirchRabbitry]

Thanks everyone! Nice bunnies Blaze Also I decided not to get either

Instead I'm getting 2 show quality Fuzzy Lop does They come from very good lines

 

[Blaze_Amita]

Fuzzies!!! Are we going to see pictures of them?